GLENNFebruary 23, 2017

Finding Virtue in Hell: Glenn Headed to Bangkok With Operation Underground Railroad

Glenn will be joining Tim Ballard and the team from Operation Underground Railroad for a bird's eye view of the sex trafficking industry in Bangkok, Thailand. It will be his first trip into what he calls "the gates of hell." Ballard did nothing to dispel Glenn's ideas about what he'll soon witness.

"I've been doing this for 15 years, and I want to go home and vomit every time I walk down the street that I'm going to take you down in a couple days," Ballard told Glenn.

While Glenn knows he's going to encounter evil like he's never seen before, he'll also be on the lookout for something entirely different.

"You know, vice already exists. I'm going to bring our cameras with us. I'm looking for virtue. In the worst possible scenarios, where can we find the virtue?" Glenn said.

Enjoy the complimentary clip above or read the transcript below for details.

GLENN: Hello, America. Welcome to the program.

It's funny, as we were talking about underage sex, sex with minors, and you heard Bill Maher from the past, maybe ten years, they're kind of joking about it. And as long as it's happening with a boy, it's okay. As long as it's an older woman and a boy, it's okay. If it's a boy and an older man, it's not okay. I mean, we're seeing this with Milo. He talked about sometimes it's okay if the man is giving him a loving experience. And, you know, basically grooming him. It's okay.

Or -- and everybody was against that. Bill Maher was talking about that -- that case up in Seattle, where it was a, what, 34-year-old woman who was grooming a 14-year-old boy. And everybody is laughing. How do you rape a boy?

Well, it happens a great deal. Tim Ballard is in. Tim runs Operation Underground Railroad. Ourrescue.org. And it's an organization that this audience helped found and start. Raised the first million dollars to help get it off the ground. Tim is an old friend of the show. Was with the CIA and Department of Homeland Security for a while doing -- you know, busting up sex crimes. And just couldn't take it anymore because there's a lot of things that the government just can't do because of the role of government.

Started with us going out and trying to save kids. We have an update for you on Haiti. There was a big bust -- this is the Super Bowl bust?

TIM: That's right, yeah.

GLENN: While everybody else was celebrating the Super Bowl, Tim and his team were out having another Super Bowl party, if you will, in Haiti, that turned out to be a big bust. Biggest bust yet?

TIM: One of our biggest.

GLENN: One of them -- okay. Tell us about it.

TIM: Well, we -- as you know, because you were with us a couple months ago -- we've been setting things up in Haiti for quite some time. Actually, one of our first operations was a bust in Haiti. They were selling kids out of this illicit orphanage.

But Haiti is such a broken land. There's 300,000 slave kids. And we -- again, you know, Glenn, because you were with us, and you saw this firsthand.

And we've been working for some time with the police. In Haiti, to do something about this -- I mean, these poor kids are taken. They're slave labor. Sex trafficked.

GLENN: This literally -- every -- I can't say every. But if you buy an avocado from the Dominican Republic, which most of us have, a lot of those have been picked by literal slaves. Not like kind of slaves. I'm working for slave labor. This is slave labor wages.

No, no, no. Actual chained slaves is what we're talking about.

TIM: Yeah, it is -- it's the most incredible thing we've ever seen.

About two, three months ago, the Haitian police told us they had information that children were being sold for sex, in the Port-au-Prince area, a couple of nightclubs where this was happening. And asked us if we could go in, using our top undercover team, to play the role of the Americans because that's who the trappers will then come to.

They sent us in, and then within a couple of days -- in fact, while you're there, and, you know, this, that's when that team was working parallel to what we were doing on the rehab side.

GLENN: Yeah.

TIM: And they found about three different -- three different networks that were selling children as young as ten years old. And they -- they brought these kids after a series of negotiations, always working with the police, right? We work with the police. And they believed that they were coming down, a bunch of Americans for a Super Bowl party at a little resort on the eastern part -- or the western part of the island.

And they ended upbringing 29 victims, 20 of which were actual children. And then traffickers brought these kids. And they walked on to this scene. And we have some photos of this, or some videos. But they walked onto this scene that looked like this beautiful, you know, American bachelor party, Super Bowl party. And they walked these poor -- these kids in. My operators reported that some of them were branded with -- you know, as property with tattoos. At least two of them we know for sure had been the subjects of child pornography that had been produced and distributed internationally.

GLENN: Yeah, one of them was really quite a star of child pornography.

TIM: Right. One of them -- yes, they had been making videos since she was nine, ten years old.

GLENN: Oh, my gosh.

So you saved the 29?

TIM: Yeah. Yes.

GLENN: The bad guys went to jail?

TIM: All of them.

GLENN: All of them went to jail.

TIM: Yep.

GLENN: And the kids -- and we don't want to get into the details of this because it's -- it's amazing when Pat and I went over before Christmas, and we saw these kids. I mean, I don't think people would -- I don't think people understand. We went into these places, these orphanages where these kids are being brought in.

And literally, they would not leave us alone. They would not -- I have never seen kids -- little kids just come to your feet and look and put their arms up, like please hold me. And then they would cuddle next to you. I mean, they would put your cheek next to your cheek. And they would not let you go.

PAT: Just starved for affection.

GLENN: Starved for affection.

PAT: Uh-huh.

GLENN: Which is odd. Now, not all of these kids that we saw are in sex crimes. But they're all orphans. And some of them are the lucky ones that went to the orphanage that wasn't selling them for slaves because, as we also found out, in Haiti, our own churches are -- are doing some things that are causing damage to Haiti.

We all go over there. We all want to do the right thing. But between the corruption of the government and us being do-good Americans, sometimes we don't know. And some of these churches -- hopefully not very many, but some of these churches are actually -- some of them knowingly engaged in the slave trade.

TIM: Yeah, it's crazy. It's just culturally accepted -- it's really no different than the church's involvement in 19th century America, where it's culturally accepted. There's 300,000 children. They call them restaveks. And they're kids who are -- it's domestic servitude. But it's slavery. The kids get sent to rural areas. Or, you know, they say, we can't afford them here, so we send them to our family or to our communities outside of the city. But we go in, undercover, we know what's happening. These kids are being treated as slaves. Sex slaves. Slave labor.

And we even came -- a couple of pastors who had two or three of them. And they were -- I mean, they were slaves.

PAT: Oh, my gosh.

GLENN: Like sleep on the floor, can't eat with the family, Cinderella stories.

TIM: Yes.

GLENN: True Cinderella stories. And the churches don't -- and the churches there -- not all of them, by any stretch of the imagination, but some of the churches there, it is so normalized there, that they don't think that they're doing anything wrong. And the kid -- and the parents will bring their kids to the pastors. And the pastors will say, "Oh, I'll take care of it," and ship them off to be sold into slavery. It's crazy.

PAT: What percentage of the kids that are in sex slavery do you know, Tim, have been sold by their parents? As opposed to kidnapped.

TIM: Yeah. Anecdotally, I can say it's -- either sold by their parents or lured out where the parents didn't really -- they were duped, I'd say probably 90 percent.

PAT: 90 percent!

GLENN: Wow.

TIM: Very few are like a hard kidnapping like in the movie Taken.

PAT: Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

Wow.

STU: The documentary.

GLENN: Tell the story about the dad who was told his children were great for -- what was it? You know, the Star of Brazil Show. You know what I'm talking about. It was in the Dominican -- I can't remember where it was, where the talent scout came to town.

TIM: Yes, yes. Unbelievable.

GLENN: Yeah. Can you tell that story?

TIM: What happened was -- this was in Cartagena in Colombia. And there was just this woman who 25 years old, beautiful. She was Ms. Cartagena 2012, I believe. So she was known in the community --

GLENN: This is like Miss America. Okay. Think of this.

TIM: And the traffickers had recruited her, and she knew exactly what she was doing. To go in -- and she would walk into these homes of kids. And they targeted them about nine years old. And they would go and sit down with the families and say, "You know who I am. I can make your daughter famous and rich like me. And I'm going to give her a scholarship to my modeling school." And it was a real modeling school. They had pamphlets. They had commercials. They were showing them on their laptops. And the families thought, "Oh, my gosh. My ship came in. And go -- go to the school."

And they take these kids, and they put them in the school. After they go to school, they go to their three or four hours in this modeling school. And slowly, they're desensitized. They're shown pornography. They're shown child pornography. They're given drugs. And they're told eventually, part of this job is you're going to go into that room, and there's going to be a person in there. And likely a Westerner. And you're going to do whatever sexual acts he wants you to do. That's part of being a model. And, by the way, if you tell anybody about this, you will be dead, your family will be dead. And these kids -- some of them go home every night, and they don't say anything. And that's where we were able to sweep in, and we were able to infiltrate that group.

And on that operation, we rescued over 100 kids.

JEFFY: Wow.

GLENN: This is really, really important work. Tim is going to be with me tonight on television at 5 o'clock. We're going to show some of this video of this bust. So you'll see some of the kids. And the most important thing is that these kids are all taken and they're safe. They don't leave the arms of Operation Underground Railroad really until they're 18. And they're safe and on their feet. They get an education. They are fed. They are given spiritual education. Spiritual healing.

And it's an unbelievable service. Really unbelievable. And it is all thanks to you.

We have a goal in the next year that we want to raise an awful lot of money. And we'll tell you why coming. But we sure would like your help. If you would be willing to help us on these -- I mean, really, you want your name written in the Book of Life, you want to know why you're here, how can I make a difference, did I ever make a difference? This one makes a difference.

How much to save a child?

TIM: Right now, we're running about 2500 to 3,000 for a kid who is outside of the United States.

GLENN: Okay. And we'll get to the United States. We'll probably talk about that a little bit tomorrow and next week. But if you would like to help in any way you can, go to ourrescue.org. That's ourrescue.org. Tim, I'll see you this afternoon.

TIM: Thanks, Glenn. Thanks.

GLENN: Thank you very much.

[break]

GLENN: Just a couple more minutes from Operation Underground Railroad, ourrescue.org.

I'm actually getting on a plane as we leave tomorrow to go to Bangkok. And, you know, this is -- this is the -- this is the seat of Sodom and Gomorrah, if you will. Is this ground zero for sex trafficking?

TIM: Definitely one of them. Maybe -- yeah.

GLENN: And he's going to take me through the gates of hell. And, you know, Vice already exists. I'm going to bring our cameras with us. I'm looking for virtue. In the worst possible scenarios, where can we find the virtue?

And we already have an idea -- a couple of ideas of where we can find it. But as the operators go in and rescue some children, they're going to be doing some things. We're going to be finding the virtue. But I -- the gates of hell -- you know, I've watched a few documentaries on it, and I don't know if I'm ready to see it myself. Pretty --

TIM: I've been doing this for 15 years, and I want to go home and vomit every time I walk down the street that I'm going to take you down in a couple days.

STU: I'm sorry we are missing this trip. I'm telling you, wow, I am really sorry we're missing this one. Because that's really difficult, man.

GLENN: We're going to spend more time in the airplane than we are on the ground, which is unfortunate. But it's going to be a whirlwind trip and hope to be able to come home and show you some stories of how you are making an impact. And this one involves us, except a different -- this is not rescuing the children alone. Because I get a lot of people -- why are we spending money elsewhere? Well, because children are children. I don't think the Lord sees borders.

STU: It also goes a lot further too. Right?

GLENN: But if it's happening here in America, we have to take care of it as well. But this particular case, we are. Because the bad guys, a lot of them come from the United States. We're going to a shelter -- I don't want to say anything about it. But we're going to one place where, you know, Operation Underground Railroad has teamed up with this Buddhist monk who actually goes and rescues these 7-year-old boys from the clutches of American men who have come over for a sex holiday. And we have to police our own. Get them out of the picture as well.

We'll have more on this tonight. Some more good news on this tonight. And so much more, coming up on the program. Next, Tim Ballard. Ourrescue.org.

RADIO

The UNREPORTED reason why Trump is targeting Venezuela

A few weeks ago, President Trump moved a battle group to Latin America. Now, with the bombing of a Venezuelan cartel drug smuggling boat, we’ve seen what part of its mission may be. But Glenn Beck lays out an unreported second reason that Trump is drawing these battle lines: Venezuela has become a literal “beachhead” for enemies of America, like China, Hezbollah, and Iran.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I want to talk to you about something that is right on our door step, that I don't think a lot of people are watching. I think it was Sunday. Saturday or Sunday. I read an article. And I just kind of skimmed it quickly.

And I filed it away.

And it was the United States is moving like a battle group, to Latin America. And I'm like, what? We're moving a battle group? What are we -- what -- we're losing.

We're moving cruise missiles, ships, like 4,000 Marines. I mean, this is what you have, when you have an invading force. You know, when you're worried about something, you want to keep calm in some area. You know, we sent them over, off the coast of Africa. Because there's somebody doing something.

And we sent this group over.

Like, hey. Knock it off. What are we doing?

Okay. Well, it's not just to Latin America. It's some place very specific: Venezuela.

What's happening now is not some distant strong man. This is -- battle lines are being drawn right now, between freedom and chaos. Okay?

This week, Nicholas Maduro, who was indicted by the Trump administration. I think in 2020. And then Biden didn't do anything about it. He was indicted by our own justice department for narco terrorism.

He just responded to us. And mobilized four and a half million civilian militiamen. So he's now just kind of drafting 4 million men, and said, you're -- you're a citizen, but you're also a soldier right now.

And he says, it's to defend sovereignty against America.

Here's what it is: He's trying to protect himself.

He's a dictator. And he's conscripting an entire had a nation. Because he knows, the United States is after him. Why?

Why?

Well, we have warships, three ageist destroyers, and they're anchored right off his coast. And we just doubled the on bounty on his head, from $25 million to $50 million.

And, you know, you -- at first blush, you're like, can we?

What are we doing? What? What's happening?

We've lived in a time, my whole life, where we're like, you know, the government can do two things at one place.

It should be able to walk and chew gum. Well, we're not just walking and chewing gum. We're walking, chewing gum, putting out the fire of a burning house. Juggling flaming bowling pins. Stopping a nuclear war.

Dancing the Macarena, because everybody in Washington, DC, is like 8,000 years old. We're building a death bot army at the same time, fighting people that want to behead us. Oh, and the Islamists, and redistricting Texas. And we're doing it all at the same time.

Why? I mean, we're living Mission Impossible, except our Tom Cruise is 78 years old. Which, I want you to think about this.

I think Donald Trump is exactly who Tom Cruise will be when he's 78. Just not -- he's still running that weird run that he's doing. Anyway, so Donald Trump is going after Venezuela for two reasons. One, drums. Fentanyl and cocaine, much of it laced, much of it deadly. And it is -- it is being trafficked here in the United States, by people who are directly tied to Maduro's government.

And it's the so-called cartel of the suns. MS-13 gang members. All of this stuff is coming from Venezuela.

And they are poisoning Americans. And this is not just a foreign, you know -- you know, a foreign security thing. Or a foreign policy issue.

This is -- this is Homeland Security. This is actually affecting us.

The second one, and I think this is the bigger reason of the two. I mean, they're probably tied. But this is a big one that most Americans don't know. Venezuela is not some backwater place. It's full of oil.

And it is a staging ground now for Russia, China, and Iran.

Hezbollah, it has some of the worst people. It's a beachhead, for those people who want to see the United States taken down.

JASON: Oh, Glenn. Literally, a beachhead. This is insane because I didn't even know a lot of this. We mentioned this maybe a couple of months ago.

GLENN: Yeah, we did -- we did -- it was part of another story.

JASON: The Tren de Aragua stuff.

GLENN: Yeah. Wait a minute. What is Hezbollah doing in Venezuela?

JASON: Oh, my gosh. So I actually did you go through congressional testimony, to get some of this information now. Now, this is information that the American public doesn't really know, but the government knows.

So check this out. This is from congressional testimony. In 2011, they tested -- Congress testified what Hugo Chavez was doing.

Listen to this. Just the year before, 2010, Hugo Chavez hosted something called the Secret Summit. Like literally, it was called the Secret Summit.

GLENN: Okay.

JASON: Guess who showed up to the Secret Summit. The supreme leader of Hamas. The Chief of Operations for Hezbollah, and the Secretary General of Palestinian Islamic jihad.

GLENN: Oh, I thought you were going to say Satan.

JASON: I might as well have. I mean, this is absolutely nuts.

GLENN: Nobody was talking about that. How can that happen right off our shore? Nobody is talking about it.

JASON: Glenn, it gets so much worse than that, if it can.

So Iranians right now, with connections to Hezbollah, are on an island off the coast of Venezuela. It's called Margarita Island. Everybody should Google us right now, and check it out.

GLENN: Is Jimmy Buffett involved?

JASON: He's -- Jimmy Buffett would be nowhere near this.

GLENN: All right. The whole world is about to crash.

JASON: Yeah, it's not 5 o'clock anywhere on this Margarita Island.

These are some of the things they're doing here, okay?

Again, with the involvement of the -- of the Venezuelan government. They are, quote, running money laundering operations, establishing -- excuse me. Paramilitary training centers.

They are recruiting Venezuelan gangs. And listen to this: Sending those people -- this is like Tren de Aragua. Sending them to Iran for follow-on training.

GLENN: Jeez.

JASON: This is happening right now. Our government knows about this. This is the only time I've actually seen them do anything concrete to combat it.

GLENN: They've known about it since 2010. Known about it since 2010.

You didn't know that. Nobody is saying that. When -- you know, we've -- we've argued that Venezuela and communism. And, you know, they were eating the zoo animals.

That's what happens, gang.

When you go communist. And full-on democracy. They wanted full-on democracy. And that's what you get. You know, hello, Maduro.

So when Maduro took over, he was kind of the Mamdani, if you will of -- of Venezuela. He's just a simple bus driver. Uh-huh.

And look what -- look what he's done.

That's the part we've heard about.

Then when the border crisis happened. We started hearing about, oh, well, they're sending gangs in. And they're sending -- they're sending fentanyl and everything else in.

We still are not talking about their connections to Iran and Hezbollah. And how they have been training people. And sending them here!

This is really not good.

So Donald Trump clearly knows all of this stuff.

And that's why he's offered $50 million. For anybody that will turn him in.

Or can tip us off to lead to the capture.

And now, the reason we're doing that. You've got to remember. We've done this before.

Noriega. Was a guy who was a drug lord.

And he was running a country. And so we've got to get him. And we finally did get Noriega. And he went to prison for what he did.

But the other times we've done that, Saddam Hussein, and even worse Muammar Gaddafi, that was a Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama nightmare.

And they drug his body through the streets.
Because we assisted the collapse. And it became a vacuum!

And now, Libya is just a nightmare.

Just a nightmare.

So was Iraq. We can't let that happen to Venezuela.

So we have to be very careful. You can't just say, go get them. We have to be very careful.

Unless the people themselves rise up against Maduro. Unless the people themselves do it, this is going to be -- this is going to be a tough one.

But we have to stop pretending, that this is somebody else's problem.

Because it is our problem. It really is our problem. Those people are already here. And we are also -- you know, this is one of the reasons insular like it, when people blame their problems on others.

I'm an alcoholic.

Now, everybody says, well, that -- that's a familial thing. That runs in your genes. I don't know. I don't think they've ever found that. There's no evidence of that. But you make a good case. I mean, we're riddled with alcoholism in my family. So, yeah. Maybe! Maybe! But I'm the one who makes the choice. Okay?

Yeah. Maybe I have that extra gene that's working against me. Maybe! But I went in to the bar. I went in to the store and bought the booze.

So we -- we have to start taking responsibility for some of our problems. It's easy to say, Venezuela is shipping all this fentanyl into the United States.

We have to recognize that Americans are buying it. Now, there's one thing to say about addiction. Once you start buying it, then you're addicted to it. And it is a nightmare.

I mean, the first time I had fentanyl, I -- I wake up. I've woken up on the operating table, two times.

They cannot keep me down. My body just processes stuff like, so fast. It's a fast, high-functioning liver.

And I was in pain. You might remember this, if you've listened to me, for a long time.

I was in New York. And they put me under. And then they -- I got out. And they were giving me morphine. I think Percocet.

And fentanyl patches. And my doctor after said, why would you let somebody do this to you?

And I was like, well, I was a little high.

And my wife didn't know.

We listened to the doctor. That's when we really learned: Don't listen to the doctor. Yeah, they don't always know.

But they had good intent. They were just trying to keep me out of pain.

But the box. Fentanyl.

I don't know if it still does.

If you get a box of fentanyl from the drugstore.

It says, black box, warning for end of life use only. Why?

Because it is so incredibly addicting.
You take it for a day or two, and you're done. You're addicted to it.

So addiction is one thing that we have to deal with.

But we also have to say, Americans are buying this stuff!

We have to change our culture, and start prosecuting people who are buying this stuff.

And treating those who are addicted to it, and understanding with compassion. Yada, yada, yada.

But we have to also -- if you're selling drugs, you're involved in selling drugs, you should have a very, very long sentence. Very long sentence.

You know, don't tell Donald Trump this. But, you know, China does not have a drug problem.

Because if you sell drugs, you're executed. I don't even think you get a trial. They just kill you.

Let's not tell Donald Trump that, because he might like that idea.

But fix it quickly.

Fix it quickly.

But we -- we have to take responsibility ourself. We have to be resilient as people. In our communities.

We have to have strong families.

We have to have citizenry, that knows the difference between liberty and tyranny. We have to understand that freedom does not come when you're on drugs.

It doesn't. That is the worst tyranny. You're a pharmaceutical tyranny.

You are -- air slave to whatever it is, that you're putting into your body. That's the real battle.

But there is another one off our shore. That could -- what do you think is going to happen, Jason?

Because this is a significant battle group, isn't it?

JASON: It's significant. I mean, including 4,000 Marines. I was on a battle group like that, where this is the same kind. Where we would go and sit off the coast of a Middle Eastern country.

GLENN: Yeah. Weren't you off the coast of Australia? You were one of the first in after 911.

JASON: Yeah. Yeah. In one of these battle groups, doing exercises in Australia. We got the call and went straight to Afghanistan right after that.

So this is like the firepower that could do that. So it's very intimidating. I would assume that is the reason for this. I don't think they will be doing actual -- you know, conflict-type kinetic stuff.

But I bet that it's just supposed to mean -- it's supposed to be intimidating. I'm curious if it's supposed to lend some support to maybe some of the, you know, ground people in Venezuela.

To finally tell them, look, we've got your back. If you want to, you know, do something about this, and finally take your country back. Now would be the time.

GLENN: Yeah, maybe we would be a peacekeeper. You know, maybe we would be a peace-keeping force.

REVEALED: The Hidden Hands Funding the War on Gender

Who is really funding the sudden cultural obsession with gender ideology? Glenn Beck uncovers the hidden networks of billionaires, nonprofits, and global organizations fueling the transgender movement and reshaping society at every level—from schools and corporations to government and even the United Nations. This is not a grassroots movement; it is a coordinated and well-funded campaign to dismantle the foundations of family, faith, and freedom. The deeper you follow the money, the clearer the picture becomes: powerful elites are weaponizing gender ideology to silence dissent and control culture. In this episode, Glenn exposes the truth the media won’t touch and explains why every American needs to understand what’s at stake.

Watch This FULL Episode of 'Glenn TV' HERE

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

Dershowitz exposes Epstein narrative: The untold story revealed

Glenn Beck sits down with Alan Dershowitz, Jeffrey Epstein’s former lawyer, to dive into the explosive controversy surrounding the Epstein list and the unanswered questions the public still demands. Dershowitz reveals why the narrative around Epstein has been twisted, why there may never be a “client list” as people imagine, and why he believes every single document must be released. From shocking accusations, false claims, and media manipulation to the deeper truth about who knew what, this conversation pulls no punches. Is the public finally ready to see everything?

Watch Glenn Beck's FULL Interview with Alan Dershowitz HERE

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

Glenn Beck and Max Lucado discuss end times

Glenn Beck sits down with pastor and author Max Lucado to break down the shocking signs of prophecy that seem to be unfolding right before our eyes. From global deception, political turmoil, and persecution of Christians to the rise of immorality and cultural chaos, the warnings Jesus gave in the Olivet Discourse sound eerily similar to today’s headlines. Max Lucado explains the “super sign” that marks the beginning of the end, why the darkness seems to be growing stronger, and how believers should respond with faith and hope rather than fear. This is a sobering yet encouraging reminder to stay awake, stay faithful, and recognize the times in which we live.

Watch Glenn Beck's FULL Interview with Max Lucado HERE

Glenn's Show Prep

Finding Virtue in Hell: Glenn Headed to Bangkok With Operation Underground Railroad

The UNREPORTED reason why Trump is targeting Venezuela

Transcript

REVEALED: The Hidden Hands Funding the War on Gender

Dershowitz exposes Epstein narrative: The untold story revealed

Glenn Beck and Max Lucado discuss end times