GLENNMarch 15, 2017

Zuhdi Jasser Fires Back: 'Give Us Some Breathing Room'

Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, host of Reform This! on TheBlaze and longtime guest of The Glenn Beck Program, joined Glenn on radio today in response to a provocative article published online by Pam Geller, who went after Dr. Jasser, calling him the “Grand Mufti of the Stealth Jihad.” Largely silenced by the left and mainstream media for not being the "right" kind of Muslim, Dr. Jasser is now under attack from a faction of the far right that doesn't accept the possibility of a moderate interpretation of Islam.

"I admit, Islam has a major problem within it. We're frustrated. It has cancer. We are in the 15th century. But we need at least a little oxygen. Give us some breathing room to say, you know what, maybe reform is possible," Dr. Jasser said.

Enjoy the complimentary clip above or read the transcript below for details.

GLENN: Something came to my attention yesterday, and I wanted to get Zuhdi Jasser on right away. Zuhdi Jasser has been a friend of mine for, I don't even know. Fifteen years, maybe?

He is, I believe, one of the bravest Muslims in America today, one who still practices his faith. There are many people who used to be Muslim who left their faith. He is a guy who still practices his faith and is a reformer, is somebody like Martin Luther, who says we have to reform this.

There is a difference between Islam and Islamists. If you are a Muslim, that's not necessarily a problem. If you're an Islamist, it is always a problem.

Zuhdi Jasser seems to understand this. But apparently, on his radio show on TheBlaze this last weekend, he went off on a few people here in America. Let me give you the -- let me give you just the headline and a little bit of this story.

The Grand Mufti of stealth jihad, Zuhdi Jasser says there's no greater threat than Pamela Geller and her colleagues. This is from Pamela Geller: In one fell swoop, moderate Muslim, in quotation marks, Zuhdi Jasser has dropped a Moab on the most effective counterjihadist in the West. The Grand Mufti of the stealth jihad has devoted an entire episode of his show on TheBlaze network Reform This to smearing me and many of my colleagues, including Robert Spencer, Andrew Bostom, Claire Lopez, John Guandolo, and others as alt-jihadists.

He says there are no greater jihadists than the alt-jihadists when it comes to living in the land of freedom because they seem to want to kill us and knock us off at the knees. Who even knew he had a show on TheBlaze? Why is Glenn Beck giving this vicious saboteur a platform? Wow.

STU: Vicious saboteur. Wow. That's impressive.

GLENN: Yeah.

Frank Gaffney immediately wrote to a group of us whom Jasser targeted, telling us to hold off in the interest of peacemaking. It was striking how quickly Gaffney jumped to Jasser' defense. I've never seen him jump to my defense like that. What a Stepin Fetchit boy Gaffney is for Jasser. It epitomizes how much people who recognize the jihad threat have been fooled into thinking that they have to have a moderate Muslim on board, or their efforts will be criticized by the left as Islamophobic.

So she is making the point that Frank Gaffney is afraid of being called Islamophobic

STU: Oh, yeah. Frank Gaffney seems like he has a lot of fear about being called things. If I were -- yeah, that's his defining characteristic.

GLENN: So let me welcome to the program the Grand Mufti of the stealth jihad, Zuhdi Jasser.

JEFFY: Right.

STU: Or Zuhdi Jasser. One of the two.

GLENN: Yeah, Zuhdi, how are you?

ZUHDI: Great, Glenn. Thank you for having me. Boy, you know, those responses sort of make me feel like I did the right thing by calling these guys out.

You know, I mean, listen, I get it. We're a minority movement. I get it that we're underdogs. But the issue and the reason why I finally needed to speak out, you know, listen, over the last few months, from Stephen Kirby posting on Spencer's website, others. There's two characteristics that need definition of the alt-jihad.

Number one, they view Islam as monolithic, a one-entity, a monopoly. No other ideas within it. And, two, they view reformers as having no hope, as liars. They constantly call me a liar about my scripture that I interpret and reinterpret in a different way from the original Arabic.

So fine. I'm not trying to take away their free speech. I know they're anti-jihad. But how do they differ from the useful idiots on the left who say that Islam is one, it's beautiful. There's nothing wrong with the misogyny in Saudi Arabia. Islam is peaceful. How does that monopoly on Islam being positive, how is their yang not the ying to the saying that Islam is all one and the Mufti of Islam is it and Zuhdis are just aberrations? I mean, they're actually doing the same thing by taking the oxygen out of what we're trying to do in reform. And when there's no hope for our work, we have to call it out.

GLENN: So, Zuhdi, I have to -- I'm sorry I haven't been following this -- this trial that you're going through right now, until last night.

And I tried to figure out what this was about. And apparently, you sent out a declaration of principles to all the mosques or many of the mosques. And you asked them to sign on as -- as cosigners. And many of them didn't. In fact, I think only, what was it? Forty did. And what they're trying to say is, see, Islam is a sham. And there's nobody behind you. When if I have this right, I look at it in a different way. That you are Martin Luther, who has just nailed the demands up on the church door. And they're expecting Martin Luther to have all of the -- how many of the priests decided to join Martin Luther? Well, not very many. Especially at first.

And they would call Martin Luther a failure. Am I reading this right?

ZUHDI: Yeah, pretty close. I think our role model for what I do are John Locke, Thomas Paine, Jefferson. We're trying to create the space for Martin Luthers. I realize I don't have a degree in Sharia, but the reform -- reformation in Europe gave space to the enlightenment scholars to have room to do their work.

When we sent that declaration out, these guys were writing at -- Spencer was publishing Kirby's work that said we were dead on arrival, that basically we were hopeless. And we nailed those declarations out, knowing that the establishment, the Islamic establishment would definitely reject it. But we proved our point.

If they were moderates, they would have signed on. And actually the Islamists on the left would have proven us wrong by saying, "Oh, they are peaceful." Well, no, we proved her right, that Islamists are supremacists. And as Geller says, they're Nazis. But she's not fighting the Naziism of Islamism. She thinks all of Islam is hopeless and a monopoly. And us Muslims are lying that are trying to reform from within.

GLENN: So you're --

ZUHDI: And all we're trying to do --

GLENN: So let me give you a clearer example. She says that she's fighting Naziism. But actually, what she's fighting is all Germans. And if anyone who says I am not a Nazi -- I was fighting against the Nazis, they're automatically lying because all Germans are Nazis.

So anybody who says that they are trying to reform, I'm a peaceful Muslim, even though you're proving the -- the sun shine and lollipops left wrong and saying, "Look, no. These -- these guys are not who the left is saying they are. These -- this is part of the Nazi party. But there are these -- these Germans here that are fighting. But there are many Germans inside of those -- those mosques, if you will, that are only there because they're afraid they're going to be killed by the storm troopers." Am I right on that?

ZUHDI: Exactly. I mean, this is why -- her verbiage, her messaging is exactly what comes out of the supreme counsel of Iran, the Saudi Wahhabis. The Al-Azhar Universities, the establishment that whips and flogs Muslims like myself. In a country where we can do this work, there's actually an alt-jihad movement that is basically doing the bidding of those governments by saying, "Oh, the Mufti of Islam is it. There are no reformers. There is no reform possible." So, therefore, yes, they ignore the fact, Glenn, that we are contrite.

I admit, Islam has a major problem within it. We're frustrated. It has cancer. We are in the 15th century. But we need at least a little oxygen. Give us some breathing room to say, you know what, maybe reform is possible.

But when they say it's terminal -- when John Guandolo posts on his site and says Sebastian Gorka, because he said that reformers need to be supported, is unfit for duty and says that the Jassers of the world are utter nonsense and calls us a fantasy Islam, how does that actually then give us room to operate and let Americans see a solution?

I mean, I'm a doctor. When I see patients that have cancer, I don't just say, oh, that's it. Call a hospice. See you later.

No. Everybody needs hope. Our movement is about hope. We admit we're a minority. But give us some hope, for crying out loud, or else you're part of the alt-jihad.

GLENN: And I see now why you're calling it the alt-jihad because it is part of the alt-right movement. This all-on-nothing, Nazi kind of mentality of the alt-right needs all Muslims to be bad.

ZUHDI: And, you know, I didn't call it right because I think it sort of exists throughout the left and the right in America, that we -- there are two groups on each extreme that view Muslims in a monolith. Either Muslims are all peaceful, no problem, psychiatric or criminal. Or on the other side, they're either terrorists or terrorists in waiting.

And that's not the Islam I teach my kids. Granted, they can say I'm a liar about the narrative of the Prophet Muhammad. But do you think that the Islam I teach my kids demonizes and says the Prophet Muhammad is irredeemable? That's not how you reform Islam.

We have to come up -- call it mythology. Call it what you want. We have to come up with narratives of the Prophet Muhammad that are 21st century narratives and call that reform and renew the branding of Islam to an American type of Islam that's compatible with our Constitution. And if we can't make that distinction, Americans are going to get confused that there's no solution, except this cataclysmic battle against 25 percent of the world's population. And that's just absurd.

GLENN: Tell me one last thing: Is it Ali -- is it Allah Jah Izetbegovic (phonetic)? I don't know how to say it.

STU: Huge fan. We're huge fans.

GLENN: Yeah, huge fan.

Do you know the name? By the way, I butchered it.

ZUHDI: Yes, Alija Izetbegovic. You know, listen, on my podcast, I talked about many scholars that affected me. And Izetbegovic was the president of Bosnia. He was in prison 15 years. He talked about humanism and Islam. You know, was he an Islamist? Yeah, he was. He said, so, listen, I'm not an Islamist. But there's books that affected who I am.

Martin Luther was an anti-Semite. Justin had slaves. There are many people that affected who we are, that had things in their lives -- so then Spencer then publishes that I used an Islamic supremacist as a source of reform. That's absurd. We don't take authors, in toto. We take some of their messages.

I mean, if there was an author I could tell you is a reformer, we would just use him and say, let's follow him. But, no, we had to create or invent the Muslim reform movement that has 30, 40 different scholars that we use to inform what we're doing. Izetbegovic's book, Islam Between East and West, has a defense of secular humanism. The ideas of humanism being central to part of Islamic ideas. I don't buy his declaration. I reject it. Our Muslim reform movement rejects it. But what they want to do is cherrypick things I say to say, oh, that proves that I'm a stealth jihadists. So, therefore, forget the last hundreds of articles and books and speeches I've given, this proves that Jasser is actually lying. I mean, that's not American. That's not --

GLENN: Zuhdi, I have known you -- was I the first national host to bring you to the forefront?

ZUHDI: Absolutely. Back in 2006, on CNN.

GLENN: Okay. So 2006. I've known you since 2006. And I've heard you passionate about many things. I sense something different in your voice this time. A real sense of not despair, but overwhelming frustration here from people who you would hope that would be reasonable. Am I -- am I sensing something here, or is it just hogwash?

ZUHDI: You're right. I mean, I was blessed to have parents that came to the freest country in the world. And I'm getting squeezed from both sides of the political spectrum. And folks that are with me with a common enemy -- I don't care if they believe Islam is evil or whatever as a faith, but at least give us room to operate. And don't say the same things about me that the theocrats of Saudi Arabia and Iran say. Give us a little bit of room. And say, well, okay. Fine. A little benefit of the doubt that maybe there are versions where minority -- and in this country, when I hear this discourse between these two extremes, where are we supposed to operate? It's frustrating.

GLENN: Zuhdi Jasser, I admire you, sir. And if Pamela Geller doesn't know why Glenn Beck gives airtime to this voice, maybe the rest of the country can understand it, in just the last ten minutes. I think you have an important voice that has been silenced by what was the left for most of the last ten years.

And now apparently, being silenced by the right or wanting to be silenced. The alt-right. And it's just as wrong. And I stand with you, Zuhdi. And anything I can do to help expose you to more people, I will do. Anything I can help, I will do. I think you have an important voice. And I sure appreciate your willingness to continue to stand.

ZUHDI: Well, God bless you, thank you, Glenn. Appreciate it. Be well.

GLENN: You bet.

STU: And his podcast is on TheBlaze.com/radio. You should listen to it. Another thing, he threw out a lot of names, and a lot of them you may not be familiar with. One that he did mention that said, hey, you know, we need to give Zuhdi Jasser room to move and show that this can be reformed was Sebastian Gorka. That is a top adviser to Donald Trump, is what he's talking about there. So you talk about where this battle is happening. It's not on the right. It's not on the Donald Trump level. It's way out in the wilderness of Richard Spencer and Pamela Geller and all these other people out there. But it's important to know, that in the Trump administration, they're looking at Zuhdi Jasser as someone who is a real hope to solve this problem. And, you know --

GLENN: And thank God for that.

STU: I think you're right to sense that despair in him. But that's encouraging, right?

GLENN: Oh, it's very encouraging.

This is the guy I've been since 2006, I've been saying, Bush needed to listen to. Obama needed to listen to. The world needs to listen to. He gets it. He really gets it. And if you just want to hate Islam, he's not your guy. But if you believe -- I mean, I was just in a land where people are worshiping a half elephant, four-armed lady. I mean, I don't even -- I mean, you know. What the hell is that? Is what I was thinking.

Okay. What are the people like? If I'm going over, my job is to destroy all those people that have the elephant idol. Well, good luck with that. I don't want to join you. If you would like to help people get closer and closer to the truth and out of error, then let's have a conversation. I don't want to just be the destroyer of anything, unless you're trying to destroy everybody else. And that's what Islamists do. That's not what Zuhdi Jasser and millions of good Muslims do.

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

How to Find God in a Divided World | Max Lucado & Glenn Beck

Glenn Beck sits down with beloved pastor and author Max Lucado for a deep conversation about faith, humility, and finding unity in a divided world. Together, they reflect on the importance of principles over politics, why humility opens the door to true dialogue, and how centering life on God brings clarity and peace. Lucado shares stories of faith, the dangers of a “prosperity gospel,” and the powerful reminder that life is not about making a big deal of ourselves, but about making a big deal of God. This uplifting conversation will inspire you to re-center your life, strengthen your faith, and see how humility and love can transform even the most divided times.

Watch Glenn Beck's FULL Interview with Max Lucado HERE

RADIO

Bill O'Reilly predicts THIS will be Charlie Kirk's legacy

Bill O’Reilly joins Glenn Beck with a powerful prediction about Charlie Kirk’s legacy. Evil tried to destroy his movement, Bill says, but – as his new book, “Confronting Evil,” lays out – evil will just end up destroying itself once more…

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Mr. Bill O'Reilly, welcome to the program, how are you, sir?

BILL: Good, Beck, thanks for having me back. I appreciate it. How have you been?

GLENN: Last week was really tough. I know it was tough for you and everybody else.

But, you know -- I haven't -- I haven't seen anything.

BILL: Family okay? All of that?

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. Family is okay. Family is okay.

BILL: Good question good. That's the most important thing.

GLENN: It is.

So, Bill, what do you make of this whole Charlie Kirk thing. What happened, and where are we headed?

BILL: So my analysis is different for everybody else, and those that know me for so long. About a year ago, I was looking for a topic -- it was a contract to do another book. And I said, you know what's happening in America, and around the world. Was a rise in evil. It takes a year to research and write these books.

And not since the 1930s, had I seen that happen, to this extent. And in the 1930s, of course, you would have Tojo and Hitler and Mussolini and Franco and all these guys. And it led to 100 million dead in World War II. The same thing, not to the extent.

But the same thing was --
GLENN: Yet.
BILL: -- bubbling in the world, and in the United States.

I decided to write a book. The book comes out last Tuesday. And on Wednesday, Putin lobs missiles into Poland.

Ultra dangerous.

And a few hours later, Charlie Kirk is assassinated.

And one of the interviewers said to me last week, your -- your book is haunting. Is haunting.

And I think that's extremely accurate. Because that's what evil does.

And in the United States, we have so many distractions. The social media.

People create around their own lives.

Sports. Whatever it may be. That we look away.

Now, Charlie Kirk was an interesting fellow. Because at a very young age, he was mature enough to understand that he wanted to take a stand in favor of traditional America and Judeo Christian philosophy.

He decided that he wanted to do that.

You know, and when I was 31 or whatever, I was lucky I wasn't in the penitentiary. And I believe you were in the penitentiary.
(laughter)
So he was light years ahead of us.

GLENN: Yes, he was.

BILL: And he put it into motion. All right? Now, most good people, even if you disagree with what Mr. Kirk says on occasion, you admire that. That's the spirit of America. That you have a belief system, that you go out and try to promote that belief system, for the greater good of the country. That's what it is.

That's what Charlie Kirk did.

And he lost his life.

By doing it!

So when you essentially break all of this down. You take the emotion away, all right?

Which I have to do, in my job. You see it as another victory for evil.

But it really isn't.

And this is the ongoing story.

This is the most important story. So when you read my book, Confronting Evil, you'll see that all of these heinous individuals, Putin's on the cover. Mao. Hitler.

Ayatollah Khomeini. And then there are 14 others inside the book. They all destroy themselves.

Evil always destroys itself. But it takes so many people with it. So this shooter destroyed his own family.

And -- and Donald Trump, I talked to him about it last week in Yankee stadium. And Trump is a much different guy than most people think.

GLENN: He is.

JASON: He destroyed his own mother and father and his two brothers.

That's what he did. In addition to the Kirk family!

So evil spreads. Now, if Americans pay attention and come to the conclusion that I just stated, it will be much more difficult for evil to operate openly.

And that's what I think is going to happen.

There's going to be a ferocious backlash against the progressive left in particular.

To stop it, and I believe that is what Mr. Kirk's legacy is going to be.

GLENN: I -- I agree with you on all of these fronts.

I wonder though, you know, it took three, or if you count JFK, four assassinations in the '60s, to confront the evil if you will.

Before people really woke up and said, enough is enough!

And then you have the big Jesus revolution after that.

Is -- I hate to say this. But is -- as far gone as we are, is one assassination enough to wake people up?

JOHN: Some people. Some people will never wake up.

They just don't want to live in the real world, Beck. And it's never been easier to do that with the social media and the phones and the computers.

And you're never going to get them back.

But you don't need them. So let's just be very realistic here on the Glenn Beck show.

Let's run it down.

The corporate media is finished.

In America. It's over.

And you will see that play out the next five years.

Because the corporate media invested so much of its credibility into hating Donald Trump.

And the hate is the key word.

You will find this interesting, Beck. For the first time in ten years, I've been invited to do a major thing on CBS, today.

I will do it GE today. With major Garrett.

GLENN: Wow.

BILL: Now, that only happened because Skydance bought CBS. And Skydance understands the brand CBS is over, and they will have to rehabilitate the whole thing. NBC has not come to that conclusion yet, but it will have to.

And ABC just does the weather. I mean, that's all they care about. Is it snowing in Montana? Okay? The cables are all finished. Even Fox.

Once Trump leaves the stage, there's nowhere for FNC to go. Because they've invested so much in Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.

So the fact of the matter is, the corporate media is over in America. That takes a huge cudgel out of the hands of the progressive movement.

Because the progressive movement was dependent on the corporate media to advance its cause. That's going to end, Beck.

GLENN: Well, I would hope that you're right.

Let me ask you about --

BILL: When am I wrong?

When am I wrong?

You've known me for 55 years. When have I been wrong?

GLENN: Okay. All right. All right. We're not here to argue things like that.

So tell me about Skydance. Because isn't Skydance Chinese?

BILL: No! It's Ellison. Larry Ellison, the second richest guy in the world. He owns Lanai and Hawaii, the big tech guy and his son is running it.

GLENN: Yeah, okay.

I though Skydance. I thought that was -- you know them.

BILL: Yeah.

And they -- they're not ideological, but they were as appalled as most of us who pay attention at the deterioration of the network presentations.

So --

GLENN: You think that they could.

BILL: 60 Minutes used to be the gold standard.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

BILL: And it just -- it -- you know, you know, I don't know if you watch it anymore.

GLENN: I don't either.

So do you think they can actually turn CBS around, or is it just over?

BILL: I don't know. It's very hard to predict, because so many people now bail. I've got a daughter 26, and a son, 22.

They never, ever watched network television.

And you've got -- it's true. Right?

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah.

They don't watch --

BILL: They're not going to watch The Voice. The dancing with this. The juggling with that. You know, I think they could do a much better job in their news presentations.

GLENN: Yeah. Right.

BILL: Because what they did, is banish people like Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly.

Same voices, with huge followings.

Huge!

All right?

We couldn't get on there.

That's why Colbert got fired. Because Colbert wouldn't -- refused to put on any non-progressive voice, when they were talking about the country.

GLENN: I know.

BILL: Well, it's not -- I'm censoring it.

GLENN: Yeah, but it's not that he was fired because he wouldn't do that. He was fired because that led to horrible ratings. Horrible ratings.

BILL: Yes, it was his defiance.

GLENN: Yes.

BILL: Fallon has terrible ratings and so does Kimmel. But Colbert was in your face, F you, to the people who were signing his paycheck.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

BILL: Look, evil can only exist if the mechanisms of power are behind it.

And that's when you read the front -- I take them one by one. And Putin is the most important chapter by far.

GLENN: Why?

BILL: Because Putin would use nuclear weapon.

He wouldn't. He's a psychopath.

And I'm -- on Thursday night, I got a call from the president's people saying, would I meet the president at Yankee stadium for the 9/11 game?

And I said, when a president calls and asks you to meet them, sure.

GLENN: I'll be there. What time?

BILL: It will take me three days to get into Yankee stadium, on Long Island. But I'll start now.

GLENN: Especially because the president is coming. But go ahead.

BILL: Anyway, that was a very, I think that Mr. Trump values my opinion. And it was -- we did talk about Putin.

And the change in Putin. And I had warned him, that Putin had changed from the first administration, where Trump controlled Putin to some extent.

Now he's out of control. Because that's what always happens.

GLENN: Yeah.

BILL: It happened with Hitler. It happened with Mao. It happened with the ayatollah. It happened with Stalin. Right now. They get worse and worse and worse and worse. And then they blow up.

And that's where Putin is! But he couldn't do any of that, without the assent of the Russian people. They are allowing him to do this, to kill women and children. A million Russian casualties for what! For what! Okay?

So that's why this book is just in the stratosphere. And I was thinking object, oh. Because people want to understand evil, finally. Finally.

They're taking a hard look at it, and the Charlie Kirk assassination was an impetus to do that.

GLENN: Yeah. And I think it's also an impetus to look at the good side.

I mean, I think Charlie was just not a neutral -- a neutral character. He was a force for good. And for God.

And I think that -- that combination is almost the Martin Luther King combination. Where you have a guy who is speaking up for civil rights.

But then also, speaking up for God. And speaking truth, Scripturally.

And I think that combination still, strangely, I wouldn't have predicted it. But strangely still works here in America, and I think it's changed everything.

Bill, it's always food to talk to you. Thank you so much for being on. I appreciate it.

It's Bill O'Reilly. The name of the book, you don't want to miss. Is confronting evil. And he takes all of these really, really bad guys on. One by one. And shows you, what happens if you don't do something about it. Confronting evil. Bill O'Reilly.

And you can find it at BillO'Reilly.com.

RADIO

The difference between debate and celebrating death

There’s a big difference between firing someone, like a teacher, for believing children shouldn’t undergo trans surgery and firing a teacher who celebrated the murder of Charlie Kirk. Glenn Beck explains why the latter is NOT “cancel culture.”

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I got an email from somebody that says, Glenn, in the wake of Charlie's assassination, dozens of teachers, professors and professionals are being suspended or fired for mocking, or even celebrating Charlie Kirk's death.

Critics say conservatives are now being hypocritical because you oppose cancel culture. But is this the same as rose an losing her job over a crude joke. Or is it celebrating murder, and that's something more serious?

For many, this isn't about cancellation it's about trust. If a teacher is entrusted with children or a doctor entrusted with patients, publicly celebrates political violence, have they not yet disqualified themselves from those roles? Words matter. But cheering a death is an action. Is there any consequence for this? Yes. There is.

So let's have that conversation here for a second.

Is every -- is every speech controversy the same?

The answer to that is clearly no.

I mean, we've seen teachers and pastors and doctors and ordinary citizens lose their job now, just for saying they don't believe children under 18 should undergo transgender surgeries. Okay? Lost their job. Chased out.

That opinion, whether you agree or disagree is a moral and medical judgment.

And it is a matter of policy debate. It is speech in the public square.

I have a right to say, you're mutilating children. Okay. You have a right to say, no. We're not. This is the best practices. And then we can get into the silences of it. And we don't shout down the other side.

Okay? Now, on the other hand, you have Charlie Kirk's assassination. And we've seen teachers and professors go online and be celebrate.

Not criticize. Not argue policy. But celebrate that someone was murdered.

Some have gone so far and said, it's not a tragedy. It's a victory. Somebody else, another professor said, you reap what you sow.

Well, let me ask you: Are these two categories of free speech the same?

No! They're not.

Here's the difference. To say, I believe children should not be allowed to have gender surgeries, before 18. That is an attempt, right or wrong. It doesn't matter which side you are.

That is an attempt to protect life. Protect children. And guide society.

It's entering the debate about the role of medicine. The right of parents. And the boundaries of childhood. That's what that is about. To say Charlie Kirk's assassination is a good thing, that's not a debate. That's not even an idea. That's rejoicing in violence. It's glorifying death.

There's no place in a civil society for that kind of stuff. There's not. And it's a difference that actually matters.

You know, our Founders fought for free speech because they believed as Jefferson said, that air can be tolerated where truth is left free to combat it.

So I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, at all. I don't think you do either. I hope you don't. Otherwise, you should go back to read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Error can be tolerated where truth is left to be free to combat it.

But when speech shifts from debating ideas to celebrating death, doesn't that cease to be the pursuit of truth and instead, just become a glorification of evil?

I know where I stand on that one. Where do you stand?

I mean, if you go back and you look at history, in colonial matter -- in colonial America, if you were to go against the parliament and against the king, those words were dangerous. They were called treason. But they were whys. They were arguments about liberty and taxation and the rights of man.

And the Founders risked their lives against the dictator to say those things.

Now, compare that to France in 1793.

You Thomas Paine, one of or -- one of our founder kind of. On the edges of our founders.

He thought that what was happening in France is exactly like the American Revolution.

Washington -- no. It wasn't.

There the crowds. They didn't gather to argue. Okay? They argued to cheer the guillotine they didn't want the battle of ideas.

They wanted blood. They wanted heads to roll.

And roll they did. You know, until the people who were screaming for the heads to roll, shouted for blood, found that their own heads were rolling.

Then they turned around on that one pretty quickly.

Think of Rome.

Cicero begged his countrymen to preserve the republic through reason, law, and debate. Then what happened?

The mob started cheering assassinations.

They rejoiced that enemies were slaughtered.

They were being fed to the lions.

And the republic fell into empire.

And liberty was lost!

Okay. So now let me bring this back to Charlie Kirk here for a second.

If there's a professor that says, I don't believe children should have surgeries before adulthood, is that cancel culture, when they're fired?

Yes! Yes, it is.

Because that is speech this pursuit of truth.

However imperfect, it is speech meant to protect children, not to harm them. You also cannot be fired for saying, I disagree with that.

If you are telling, I disagree with that. And I will do anything to shut you down including assassination! Well, then, that's a different story.

What I teacher says, I'm glad Charlie Kirk is dead, is that cancel culture, if they're fired?

Or is that just society saying, you know, I don't think I can trust my kid to -- to that guy.

Or that woman.

I know, that's not an enlightening mind.

Somebody who delights in political murder.

I don't want them around my children! Scripture weighs in here too.

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. Matthew.

What does it reveal about the heart of a teacher who celebrates assassination?

To me, you go back to Scripture. Whoa unto them that call good evil -- evil good and good evil.

A society that will shrug on speech like this, say society that has lost its moral compass.

And I believe we still have a moral compass.

Now, our free speech law doesn't protect both. Absolutely. Under law. Absolutely.

Neither one of them should go to jail.

Neither should be silenced by the state.

But does trust survive both?

Can a parent trust their child to a teacher who is celebrating death?

I think no. I don't think a teacher can be trusted if they think that the children that it's right for children to see strippers in first grade!

I'm sorry. It's beyond reason. You should not be around my children!

But you shouldn't go to jail for that. Don't we, as a society have a right to demand virtue, in positions of authority?

Yes.

But the political class and honestly, the educational class, does everything they can to say, that doesn't matter.

But it does. And we're seeing it now. The line between cancel and culture, the -- the cancellation of people, and the accountability of people in our culture, it's not easy.

Except here. I think it is easy.

Cancel culture is about challenging the orthodoxy. Opinions about faith, morality, biology.
Accountability comes when speech reveals somebody's heart.

Accountability comes when you're like, you are a monster! You are celebrating violence. You're mocking life itself. One is an argument. The other is an abandonment of humanity. The Constitution, so you understand, protects both.

But we as a culture can decide, what kind of voices would shape our children? Heal our sick. Lead our communities?

I'm sorry, if you're in a position of trust, I think it's absolutely right for the culture to say, no!

No. You should not -- because this is not policy debate. This is celebrating death.

You know, our Founders gave us liberty.

And, you know, the big thing was, can you keep it?

Well, how do you keep it? Virtue. Virtue.

Liberty without virtue is suicide!

So if anybody is making this case to you, that this is cancel culture. I just want you to ask them this question.

Which do you want to defend?

Cancel culture that silences debate. Or a culture that still knows the difference between debating ideas and celebrating death.

Which one?

RADIO

Shocking train video: Passengers wait while woman bleeds out

Surveillance footage of the murder of Ukrainian refugee Iryna Zarutska in Charlotte, NC, reveals that the other passengers on the train took a long time to help her. Glenn, Stu, and Jason debate whether they were right or wrong to do so.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: You know, I'm -- I'm torn on how I feel about the people on the train.

Because my first instinct is, they did nothing! They did nothing! Then my -- well, sit down and, you know -- you know, you're going to be judged. So be careful on judging others.

What would I have done? What would I want my wife to do in that situation?

STU: Yeah. Are those two different questions, by the way.

GLENN: Yeah, they are.

STU: I think they go far apart from each other. What would I want myself to do. I mean, it's tough to put yourself in a situation. It's very easy to watch a video on the internet and talk about your heroism. Everybody can do that very easily on Twitter. And everybody is.

You know, when you're in a vehicle that doesn't have an exit with a guy who just murdered somebody in front of you, and has a dripping blood off of a knife that's standing 10 feet away from you, 15 feet away from you.

There's probably a different standard there, that we should all kind of consider. And maybe give a little grace to what I saw at least was a woman, sitting across the -- the -- the aisle.

I think there is a difference there. But when you talk about that question. Those two questions are definitive.

You know, I know what I would want myself to do. I would hope I would act in a way that didn't completely embarrass myself afterward.

But I also think, when I'm thinking of my wife. My advice to my wife would not be to jump into the middle of that situation at all costs. She might do that anyway. She actually is a heck of a lot stronger than I am.

But she might do it anyway.

GLENN: How pathetic, but how true.

STU: Yes. But that would not be my advice to her.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

STU: Now, maybe once the guy has certainly -- is out of the area. And you don't think the moment you step into that situation. He will turn around and kill you too. Then, of course, obviously. Anything you can do to step in.

Not that there was much anyone on the train could do.

I mean, I don't think there was an outcome change, no matter what anyone on that train did.

Unfortunately.

But would I want her to step in?

Of course. If she felt she was safe, yes.

Think about, you said, your wife. Think about your daughter. Your daughter is on that train, just watching someone else getting murdered like that. Would you advise your daughter to jump into a situation like that?

That girl sitting across the aisle was somebody's daughter. I don't know, man.

JASON: I would. You know, as a dad, would I advise.

Hmm. No.

As a human being, would I hope that my daughter or my wife or that I would get up and at least comfort that woman while she's dying on the floor of a train?

Yeah.

I would hope that my daughter, my son, that I would -- and, you know, I have more confidence in my son or daughter or my wife doing something courageous more than I would.

But, you know, I think I have a more realistic picture of myself than anybody else.

And I'm not sure that -- I'm not sure what I would do in that situation. I know what I would hope I would do. But I also know what I fear I would do. But I would have hoped that I would have gotten up and at least tried to help her. You know, help her up off the floor. At least be there with her, as she's seeing her life, you know, spill out in under a minute.

And that's it other thing we have to keep in mind. This all happened so rapidly.

A minute is -- will seem like a very long period of time in that situation. But it's a very short period of time in real life.

STU: Yeah. You watch the video, Glenn. You know, I don't need the video to -- to change my -- my position on this.

But at his seem like there was a -- someone who did get there, eventually, to help, right? I saw someone seemingly trying to put pressure on her neck.

GLENN: Yeah. And tried to give her CPR.

STU: You know, no hope at that point. How long of a time period would you say that was?

Do you know off the top of your head?

GLENN: I don't know. I don't know. I know that we watched the video that I saw. I haven't seen past 30 seconds after she --

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: -- is down. And, you know, for 30 seconds nothing is happening. You know, that is -- that is not a very long period of time.

STU: Right.

GLENN: In reality.

STU: And especially, I saw the pace he was walking. He certainly can't be -- you know, he may have left the actual train car by 30 seconds to a minute. But he wasn't that far away. Like he was still in visual.

He could still turn around and look and see what's going on at that point. So certainly still a threat is my point. He has not, like, left the area. This is not that type of situation.

You know, I -- look, as you point out, I think if I could be super duper sexist for a moment here, sort of my dividing line might just be men and women.

You know, I don't know if it's that a -- you're not supposed to say that, I suppose these days. But, like, there is a difference there. If I'm a man, you know, I would be -- I would want my son to jump in on that, I suppose. I don't know if he could do anything about it. But you would expect at least a grown man to be able to go in there and do something about it. A woman, you know, I don't know.

Maybe I'm -- I hope --

GLENN: Here's the thing I -- here's the thing that I -- that causes me to say, no. You should have jumped in.

And that is, you know, you've already killed one person on the train. So you've proven that you're a killer. And anybody who would have screamed and got up and was with her, she's dying. She's dying. Get him. Get him.

Then the whole train is responsible for stopping that guy. You know. And if you don't stop him, after he's killed one person, if you're not all as members of that train, if you're not stopping him, you know, the person at the side of that girl would be the least likely to be killed. It would be the ones that are standing you up and trying to stop him from getting back to your daughter or your wife or you.

JASON: There was a -- speaking of men and women and their roles in this. There was a video circling social media yesterday. In Sweden. There was a group of officials up on a stage. And one of the main. I think it was health official woman collapses on stage. Completely passes out.

All the men kind of look away. Or I don't know if they're looking away. Or pretending that they didn't know what was going on. There was another woman standing directly behind the woman passed out.

Immediately springs into action. Jumps on top. Grabs her pant leg. Grabs her shoulder. Spins her over and starts providing care.

What did she have that the other guys did not? Or women?

She was a sheepdog. There is a -- this is my issue. And I completely agree with Stu. I completely agree with you. There's some people that do not respond this way. My issue is the proportion of sheepdogs versus people that don't really know how to act. That is diminishing in western society. And American society.

We see it all the time in these critical actions. I mean, circumstances.

There are men and women, and it's actually a meme. That fantasize about hoards of people coming to attack their home and family. And they sit there and say, I've got it. You guys go. I'm staying behind, while I smoke my cigarette and wait for the hoards to come, because I will sacrifice myself. There are men and women that fantasize of block my highway. Go ahead. Block my highway. I'm going to do something about it. They fantasize about someone holding up -- not a liquor store. A convenience store or something. Because they will step in and do something. My issue now is that proportion of sheepdogs in society is disappearing. Just on statistical fact, there should be one within that train car, and there were none.

STU: Yeah. I mean --

JASON: They did not respond.

STU: We see what happens when they do, with Daniel Penny. Our society tries to vilify them and crush their existence. Now, there weren't that many people on that train. Right?

At least on that car. At least it's limited. I only saw three or four people there, there may have been more. I agree with you, though. Like, you see what happens when we actually do have a really recent example of someone doing exactly what Jason wants and what I would want a guy to do. Especially a marine to step up and stop this from happening. And the man was dragged by our legal system to a position where he nearly had to spend the rest of his life in prison.

I mean, I -- it's insanity. Thankfully, they came to their senses on that one.

GLENN: Well, the difference between that one and this one though is that the guy was threatening. This one, he killed somebody.

STU: Yeah. Right. Well, but -- I think -- but it's the opposite way. The debate with Penny, was should he have recognize that had this person might have just been crazy and not done anything?

Maybe. He hadn't actually acted yet. He was just saying things.

GLENN: Yeah. Well --

STU: He didn't wind up stabbing someone. This is a situation where these people have already seen what this man will do to you, even when you don't do anything to try to stop him. So if this woman, who is, again, looks to be an average American woman.

Across the aisle. Steps in and tries to do something. This guy could easily turn around and just make another pile of dead bodies next to the one that already exists.

And, you know, whether that is an optimal solution for our society, I don't know that that's helpful.

In that situation.

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