GLENNFebruary 23, 2017

Finding Virtue in Hell: Glenn Headed to Bangkok With Operation Underground Railroad

Glenn will be joining Tim Ballard and the team from Operation Underground Railroad for a bird's eye view of the sex trafficking industry in Bangkok, Thailand. It will be his first trip into what he calls "the gates of hell." Ballard did nothing to dispel Glenn's ideas about what he'll soon witness.

"I've been doing this for 15 years, and I want to go home and vomit every time I walk down the street that I'm going to take you down in a couple days," Ballard told Glenn.

While Glenn knows he's going to encounter evil like he's never seen before, he'll also be on the lookout for something entirely different.

"You know, vice already exists. I'm going to bring our cameras with us. I'm looking for virtue. In the worst possible scenarios, where can we find the virtue?" Glenn said.

Enjoy the complimentary clip above or read the transcript below for details.

GLENN: Hello, America. Welcome to the program.

It's funny, as we were talking about underage sex, sex with minors, and you heard Bill Maher from the past, maybe ten years, they're kind of joking about it. And as long as it's happening with a boy, it's okay. As long as it's an older woman and a boy, it's okay. If it's a boy and an older man, it's not okay. I mean, we're seeing this with Milo. He talked about sometimes it's okay if the man is giving him a loving experience. And, you know, basically grooming him. It's okay.

Or -- and everybody was against that. Bill Maher was talking about that -- that case up in Seattle, where it was a, what, 34-year-old woman who was grooming a 14-year-old boy. And everybody is laughing. How do you rape a boy?

Well, it happens a great deal. Tim Ballard is in. Tim runs Operation Underground Railroad. Ourrescue.org. And it's an organization that this audience helped found and start. Raised the first million dollars to help get it off the ground. Tim is an old friend of the show. Was with the CIA and Department of Homeland Security for a while doing -- you know, busting up sex crimes. And just couldn't take it anymore because there's a lot of things that the government just can't do because of the role of government.

Started with us going out and trying to save kids. We have an update for you on Haiti. There was a big bust -- this is the Super Bowl bust?

TIM: That's right, yeah.

GLENN: While everybody else was celebrating the Super Bowl, Tim and his team were out having another Super Bowl party, if you will, in Haiti, that turned out to be a big bust. Biggest bust yet?

TIM: One of our biggest.

GLENN: One of them -- okay. Tell us about it.

TIM: Well, we -- as you know, because you were with us a couple months ago -- we've been setting things up in Haiti for quite some time. Actually, one of our first operations was a bust in Haiti. They were selling kids out of this illicit orphanage.

But Haiti is such a broken land. There's 300,000 slave kids. And we -- again, you know, Glenn, because you were with us, and you saw this firsthand.

And we've been working for some time with the police. In Haiti, to do something about this -- I mean, these poor kids are taken. They're slave labor. Sex trafficked.

GLENN: This literally -- every -- I can't say every. But if you buy an avocado from the Dominican Republic, which most of us have, a lot of those have been picked by literal slaves. Not like kind of slaves. I'm working for slave labor. This is slave labor wages.

No, no, no. Actual chained slaves is what we're talking about.

TIM: Yeah, it is -- it's the most incredible thing we've ever seen.

About two, three months ago, the Haitian police told us they had information that children were being sold for sex, in the Port-au-Prince area, a couple of nightclubs where this was happening. And asked us if we could go in, using our top undercover team, to play the role of the Americans because that's who the trappers will then come to.

They sent us in, and then within a couple of days -- in fact, while you're there, and, you know, this, that's when that team was working parallel to what we were doing on the rehab side.

GLENN: Yeah.

TIM: And they found about three different -- three different networks that were selling children as young as ten years old. And they -- they brought these kids after a series of negotiations, always working with the police, right? We work with the police. And they believed that they were coming down, a bunch of Americans for a Super Bowl party at a little resort on the eastern part -- or the western part of the island.

And they ended upbringing 29 victims, 20 of which were actual children. And then traffickers brought these kids. And they walked on to this scene. And we have some photos of this, or some videos. But they walked onto this scene that looked like this beautiful, you know, American bachelor party, Super Bowl party. And they walked these poor -- these kids in. My operators reported that some of them were branded with -- you know, as property with tattoos. At least two of them we know for sure had been the subjects of child pornography that had been produced and distributed internationally.

GLENN: Yeah, one of them was really quite a star of child pornography.

TIM: Right. One of them -- yes, they had been making videos since she was nine, ten years old.

GLENN: Oh, my gosh.

So you saved the 29?

TIM: Yeah. Yes.

GLENN: The bad guys went to jail?

TIM: All of them.

GLENN: All of them went to jail.

TIM: Yep.

GLENN: And the kids -- and we don't want to get into the details of this because it's -- it's amazing when Pat and I went over before Christmas, and we saw these kids. I mean, I don't think people would -- I don't think people understand. We went into these places, these orphanages where these kids are being brought in.

And literally, they would not leave us alone. They would not -- I have never seen kids -- little kids just come to your feet and look and put their arms up, like please hold me. And then they would cuddle next to you. I mean, they would put your cheek next to your cheek. And they would not let you go.

PAT: Just starved for affection.

GLENN: Starved for affection.

PAT: Uh-huh.

GLENN: Which is odd. Now, not all of these kids that we saw are in sex crimes. But they're all orphans. And some of them are the lucky ones that went to the orphanage that wasn't selling them for slaves because, as we also found out, in Haiti, our own churches are -- are doing some things that are causing damage to Haiti.

We all go over there. We all want to do the right thing. But between the corruption of the government and us being do-good Americans, sometimes we don't know. And some of these churches -- hopefully not very many, but some of these churches are actually -- some of them knowingly engaged in the slave trade.

TIM: Yeah, it's crazy. It's just culturally accepted -- it's really no different than the church's involvement in 19th century America, where it's culturally accepted. There's 300,000 children. They call them restaveks. And they're kids who are -- it's domestic servitude. But it's slavery. The kids get sent to rural areas. Or, you know, they say, we can't afford them here, so we send them to our family or to our communities outside of the city. But we go in, undercover, we know what's happening. These kids are being treated as slaves. Sex slaves. Slave labor.

And we even came -- a couple of pastors who had two or three of them. And they were -- I mean, they were slaves.

PAT: Oh, my gosh.

GLENN: Like sleep on the floor, can't eat with the family, Cinderella stories.

TIM: Yes.

GLENN: True Cinderella stories. And the churches don't -- and the churches there -- not all of them, by any stretch of the imagination, but some of the churches there, it is so normalized there, that they don't think that they're doing anything wrong. And the kid -- and the parents will bring their kids to the pastors. And the pastors will say, "Oh, I'll take care of it," and ship them off to be sold into slavery. It's crazy.

PAT: What percentage of the kids that are in sex slavery do you know, Tim, have been sold by their parents? As opposed to kidnapped.

TIM: Yeah. Anecdotally, I can say it's -- either sold by their parents or lured out where the parents didn't really -- they were duped, I'd say probably 90 percent.

PAT: 90 percent!

GLENN: Wow.

TIM: Very few are like a hard kidnapping like in the movie Taken.

PAT: Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

Wow.

STU: The documentary.

GLENN: Tell the story about the dad who was told his children were great for -- what was it? You know, the Star of Brazil Show. You know what I'm talking about. It was in the Dominican -- I can't remember where it was, where the talent scout came to town.

TIM: Yes, yes. Unbelievable.

GLENN: Yeah. Can you tell that story?

TIM: What happened was -- this was in Cartagena in Colombia. And there was just this woman who 25 years old, beautiful. She was Ms. Cartagena 2012, I believe. So she was known in the community --

GLENN: This is like Miss America. Okay. Think of this.

TIM: And the traffickers had recruited her, and she knew exactly what she was doing. To go in -- and she would walk into these homes of kids. And they targeted them about nine years old. And they would go and sit down with the families and say, "You know who I am. I can make your daughter famous and rich like me. And I'm going to give her a scholarship to my modeling school." And it was a real modeling school. They had pamphlets. They had commercials. They were showing them on their laptops. And the families thought, "Oh, my gosh. My ship came in. And go -- go to the school."

And they take these kids, and they put them in the school. After they go to school, they go to their three or four hours in this modeling school. And slowly, they're desensitized. They're shown pornography. They're shown child pornography. They're given drugs. And they're told eventually, part of this job is you're going to go into that room, and there's going to be a person in there. And likely a Westerner. And you're going to do whatever sexual acts he wants you to do. That's part of being a model. And, by the way, if you tell anybody about this, you will be dead, your family will be dead. And these kids -- some of them go home every night, and they don't say anything. And that's where we were able to sweep in, and we were able to infiltrate that group.

And on that operation, we rescued over 100 kids.

JEFFY: Wow.

GLENN: This is really, really important work. Tim is going to be with me tonight on television at 5 o'clock. We're going to show some of this video of this bust. So you'll see some of the kids. And the most important thing is that these kids are all taken and they're safe. They don't leave the arms of Operation Underground Railroad really until they're 18. And they're safe and on their feet. They get an education. They are fed. They are given spiritual education. Spiritual healing.

And it's an unbelievable service. Really unbelievable. And it is all thanks to you.

We have a goal in the next year that we want to raise an awful lot of money. And we'll tell you why coming. But we sure would like your help. If you would be willing to help us on these -- I mean, really, you want your name written in the Book of Life, you want to know why you're here, how can I make a difference, did I ever make a difference? This one makes a difference.

How much to save a child?

TIM: Right now, we're running about 2500 to 3,000 for a kid who is outside of the United States.

GLENN: Okay. And we'll get to the United States. We'll probably talk about that a little bit tomorrow and next week. But if you would like to help in any way you can, go to ourrescue.org. That's ourrescue.org. Tim, I'll see you this afternoon.

TIM: Thanks, Glenn. Thanks.

GLENN: Thank you very much.

[break]

GLENN: Just a couple more minutes from Operation Underground Railroad, ourrescue.org.

I'm actually getting on a plane as we leave tomorrow to go to Bangkok. And, you know, this is -- this is the -- this is the seat of Sodom and Gomorrah, if you will. Is this ground zero for sex trafficking?

TIM: Definitely one of them. Maybe -- yeah.

GLENN: And he's going to take me through the gates of hell. And, you know, Vice already exists. I'm going to bring our cameras with us. I'm looking for virtue. In the worst possible scenarios, where can we find the virtue?

And we already have an idea -- a couple of ideas of where we can find it. But as the operators go in and rescue some children, they're going to be doing some things. We're going to be finding the virtue. But I -- the gates of hell -- you know, I've watched a few documentaries on it, and I don't know if I'm ready to see it myself. Pretty --

TIM: I've been doing this for 15 years, and I want to go home and vomit every time I walk down the street that I'm going to take you down in a couple days.

STU: I'm sorry we are missing this trip. I'm telling you, wow, I am really sorry we're missing this one. Because that's really difficult, man.

GLENN: We're going to spend more time in the airplane than we are on the ground, which is unfortunate. But it's going to be a whirlwind trip and hope to be able to come home and show you some stories of how you are making an impact. And this one involves us, except a different -- this is not rescuing the children alone. Because I get a lot of people -- why are we spending money elsewhere? Well, because children are children. I don't think the Lord sees borders.

STU: It also goes a lot further too. Right?

GLENN: But if it's happening here in America, we have to take care of it as well. But this particular case, we are. Because the bad guys, a lot of them come from the United States. We're going to a shelter -- I don't want to say anything about it. But we're going to one place where, you know, Operation Underground Railroad has teamed up with this Buddhist monk who actually goes and rescues these 7-year-old boys from the clutches of American men who have come over for a sex holiday. And we have to police our own. Get them out of the picture as well.

We'll have more on this tonight. Some more good news on this tonight. And so much more, coming up on the program. Next, Tim Ballard. Ourrescue.org.

RADIO

Shocking Surge: Why Young People Are Flocking to GOD in Droves

According to multiple reports, young people have flocked to the Catholic Church, especially the past year. Glenn believes it’s because of rituals. While progressives tried to change our shared traditions, some institutions are holding tight, and our young people are noticing. “Those rituals you do as a family are very important,” Glenn says. “They’re very human. And they’re not just Catholic traditions…a bride walking down the aisle, a soldier saluted at a ceremony, even the way we light candles to honor the dead. They mark moments that matter in our lives and they help organize things in our mind.” And in the religious sense, they create clarity, something that our younger generations have very little of as the world tells them nothing really matters.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: It's Good Friday. One last story on faith. I was reading an article about Tammy Peterson. The wife of Jordan Peterson.

Last year, she walked into a Catholic Church and embraced a new faith. She was a survivor of cancer. And she found, you know, solace in the rosary's ritual. You know, beads and their rhythmic prayers and all of that. And it gave her peace through all of the fear that she had. She shared this last year with the Catholic Herald interview.

And she's not alone.

A New York Post article, this week, reports a surge in young people converting to Catholicism, with year-over-year converts increasing from 30 to 70 percent.

The archdiocese of Fort Worth says, there was a 72 percent jump in converts in the last year!
Something is happening. And I think it's rituals.

You know, Barack Obama knows, said his wife. That we're going to have to change everything. We're going to have to change our traditions. Our language. Our history.

Rituals bring things back together. At a time when we are told, you know, if you disagree with your family. Don't get together with your family. Those rituals that you do as a family, are very important.

They're deeply human.

And they're not just Catholic traditions or relics of the past. They're everywhere. A bride walking down the aisle. A soldier saluted at a ceremony. Even the way we light candles in honor to -- to honor the dead. They mark moments that matter in our lives, and they help organize things in our mind.

And rituals, in Catholicism, the Eucharist, or the confession, elevate this instinct. This need to the sacred. So it's not just -- it's not just a routine.

It is a bridge to meaning. And that matters.

Because when you have meaning, and there's a storm in your life, it gives structure, so it doesn't feel like the storm is just going to wipe you out entirely.

There was a study in 2013, in Scientific American. An article by a psychologist.

That explained that rituals, religious or not. Reduce anxiety. Steady us after loss.

And boost confidence before big moments.

And you can look at this. I mean, it's not faith-based. But think of athletes with a pre-game routine.

Or just a child calmed by a bedtime story.

Rituals amplify this.

New York Post. Noted that young converts now especially Gen Z crave, quoting, the clarity and certainty rejecting the, quote, last week alternatives of modern worship. Why? Because modern worship tells you, you can believe anything. There are no real rules. God will always just take you as you are.

And, I mean, he will. Warts and all. But you've got to do a little something. Try this on for size. How alive is the church over in England?

Has it ever been alive?

Church attendance among 18 to 24-year-olds has jumped from 4 percent to 2018 to 16 percent in 2024.

I would say there's something going on here.

And experts are saying, it is a hunger for substance. And for Tammy Peterson, it was the rosary. That was her lifeline.

And, you know, whatever it is, but whatever the ritual is. You don't have to be a Catholic or anything.

Whatever you are. But what if we all leaned into our rituals a little bit more?

Because they're universal.

I mean, think of the -- think of the little things that we do every day. The morning coffee poured in the same way, the same cup every day. A family holiday tradition. A quiet moment of prayer every day.

Rituals build communities. Like a congregation singing together. In unison.

Or a neighborhood block party. They mark time! They give us mile tones. Baptisms. Graduations. Funerals.

We now live in a world of screen and rush and rituals slow us down.

I don't have time!

Yeah. You do. That's exactly what you need. Rituals. It will slow you down. Make you present in the moment. They're not about rules.

They're all about meaning, if you do it right. This isn't about recognizing, you know, one faith over another. This is about recognizing what rituals do for us. The New York Post highlights how young people facing permaconflict.

Permaconflict. And secular individualism, are seeing traditional Catholicism as cultural defiance.

And you don't have to be a Catholic to find this. Maybe your ritual is, I don't know what it is.

But whatever it is, it can shape your heart and your day. And as we head to Easter this weekend, as we head to our hopefully -- you're attending your Easter service this weekend.

Take time to find your family's ritual. And I say that, my kids are scattered everywhere. And I'm having to go to Washington on Sunday.

And for the first time, I think in my life, I'm not together with my whole family on Easter. And I hate that!

Hate that. You know, things happen in life.

But no matter what faith you are, I mean, we can all learn from each other.

We are all part of one big body. And one big effort.

Because I believe the other side, as we started this show.

We started talking about this really evil editorial. This op-ed. On Substack. That started talking about. You know. When do we start killing people?

Hello?

There is evil. We are witnessing the growth of evil.

But I just gave you some status that show, yeah. But good stuff is happening too.

Generation Z is the hero generation. You watch. You watch.

They will put this back together. Just no matter where you are. No matter what you're doing this weekend, if you're a believer, just say it out loud this weekend, to somebody.

He has risen. Just share it with somebody. Just share the peace.

Live your ritual, whatever it is. Live your ritual.

It's so important.

RADIO

Former OpenAI Researcher WARNS of “Reckless Race” for AI Control

AI development companies like OpenAI and Google DeepMind are in a “reckless race” to build smarter AIs that may soon become an “army of geniuses.” But is that a good idea? And who would control this “army?” Glenn speaks with former OpenAI researcher and AI Futures Project Executive Director, Daniel Kokotajlo, who warns that the future is coming fast! He predicts who will likely hold power over AI and what this tech will look like in the near future. Plus, he explains why developers with ethical concerns, like himself, have been leaving these Silicon Valley giants in droves.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: So we have Daniel Kokotajlo, and he's a former OpenAI researcher. Daniel, have you been on the program before? I don't think you have, have you?

DANIEL: No, I haven't.

GLENN: Yeah. Well, welcome, I'm glad you're here. Really appreciate it. Wanted to have you on, because I am a guy. I've been talking about AI forever.

And it is both just thrilling, and one of the scariest things I've ever seen, at the same time.

And it's kind of like, not really sure which way it's going.

Are -- how confident are you that -- what did you say?

DANIEL: It can go both ways. It's going to be very thrilling. And also very scary.

GLENN: Yeah. Okay.

Good. Good. Good.

Well, thanks for starting my Monday off with that. So can you tell me, first of all, some of the things, that you think are coming, and right around the corner that people just don't understand.

Because I don't think anybody. The average person, they hear this. They think, oh, it's like social media. It's going to be like the cell phone.
It's going to change everything. And they don't know that yet.

DANIEL: Yeah. Well, where to begin. I think so people are probably familiar with systems like ChatGPT now, which are large language models, that you can go have an actual normal conversation with, unlike ordinary software programs.

They're getting better at everything. In particular, right now, and in the next few years, the companies are working on turning them into autonomous agents stop instead of simply responding to some message that you send them, and then, you know, turning off. They would be continuously operating, roaming around, browsing the internet. Working on their own projects. On their own computers.

Checking in with you, sending messages. Like a human employee, basically.

GLENN: Right.

DANIEL: That's what the companies are working on now. And it's the stated intention of the CEOs of these companies, to build eventually superintelligence.

What is superintelligence? Super intelligence is fully eponymous AI systems, that are better at humans at absolutely everything.

GLENN: So on the surface -- that sounds -- that sounds like a movie, that we've all seen.

And you kind of -- you know, you say that, and you're like, anybody who is working on these.

Have they seen the same movies that I have seen?

I mean, what the heck? Let's bring -- let's just go see Jurassic park. I mean, ex-Machina. I don't -- I mean, is it just me? Or do people in the industry just go, you know, this could be really bad?

DANIEL: Yeah. It's a great question. And the answer is, they totally have seen those movies, and they totally think, yes, they can get rid of that. In fact, that's part of the founding story, of some of these companies.

GLENN: What? What do you mean? What do you mean?

DANIEL: So Shane Legg, who is I guess I'll give you the technical founder of Deep Minds, which is now part of Google Deep Minds. Which is one of the big three companies, building towards super intelligence.

I believe in his Ph.D. thesis, he discusses the possibility of superhuman AI systems, and how if they're not correctly aligned to the right values, if they're not correctly instilled with the appropriate ethics, that they could kill everyone.

And become a -- a superior competitor species to humans.

GLENN: Hmm.

DANIEL: Not just them. Lots of these people at these companies, especially early on. Basically had similar thoughts of, wow. This is going to be the biggest thing ever.

If it goes well, it could be the best thing that ever happens. If it goes poorly, it could literally kill everyone, or do something similarly catastrophic, like a permanent dystopia. People react to that in different ways. So some people voted to stay in academia.

Some people stayed in other jobs that they had, or funded nonprofit to do research about this other thing. Some people, decided, well, this is going to happen, then it's better good people like me and my friends are in charge, when it happens.

And so that's basically the founding story of a lot of these companies. That is sort of part of why Deep Minds was created, and part of why OpenAI was created.

I highly recommend going and reading some of the emails that surfaced in court documents, related to the lawsuits against OpenAI.

Because in some of those emails. You see some of the founders of OpenAI, talking to each other about why they founded OpenAI.

And basically, it was because they didn't trust Deep Mind to handle this responsibly. Anyway how --

GLENN: And did they go on to come up with -- did they go on to say, you know, and that's why we've developed this? And it's going to protect us from it? Or did they just lose their way.

What happens?

DANIEL: Well, it's an interesting sociological question.

My take on it is that institutions tend to be -- tend to conform to their incentives over time.

So it's been a sort of like -- there's been a sort of evaporating growing effect.

Where the people who are most concerned about where all this is headed, tend to not be the one to get promoted.

And end up running the companies.

And they tend to be the ones who, for example, be the ones who quit like me.

GLENN: Let's stop it for a second.

Let's stop it there for a second.

You were a governance researcher on OpenAI on scenario planning.

What does that mean?

DANIEL: I was a researcher on the government's team. Scenario funding is just one of several things that I did.

So basically, I mean, I did a couple of different things at OpenAI. One of the things that I did was try to see what the future will look like. So 2027 is a much bigger, more elaborate, more rigorous version of some smaller projects, that I sort of did when I was at OpenAI.

Like I think back in 2022, I wrote my own -- figuring out what the next couple of years were going to look like. Right? Internal scenario, right?

GLENN: How close are you?

DANIEL: I did some things right. I did some things wrong. The basic trends are (cut out), et cetera.

For how close I was overall, I actually did a similar scenario back in 2021, before I joined OpenAI.

And so you can go read that, and judge what I got right and what I got wrong.

I would say, that is about par for the course for me when I went to do these sorts of things. And I'm hoping that AI 27 will also be, you know, about that level of right and wrong.

GLENN: So you left.

DANIEL: The thing that I wrote in 2021 was what 2026 looks like, in case you want to look it up.

GLENN: Okay. I'll look it up. You walked away from millions of equity in OpenAI. What made you walk away? What were they doing that made you go, hmm, I don't think it's worth the money?

DANIEL: So -- so back to the bigger picture, I think. Remember, the companies are trying to build super intelligence.

It's going to be better than humans, better that night best humans at everything. While also being faster and cheaper. And you can just make many, many copies of them.

The CEO of anthropic. He uses this term. The country of geniuses. To try to visualize what it would look like.

Quantitatively we're talking about millions of copies.

Each one of which is smarter than the smartest geniuses.

While also being more charismatic. Than the most charismatic celebrities and politicians.

Everything, right?

So that's what they're building towards.

And that races a bunch of questions.

Is that a good idea for us to build, for example?

Like, how are we going to do that?
(laughter)
And who gets to control the army of geniuses.

GLENN: Right. Right.

DANIEL: And what orders are going to be give up?

GLENN: Right. Right.

DANIEL: They have some extremely important questions. And there's a huge -- actually, that's not even all the questions. There's a long list of other very important questions too. I was just barely scratching the surface.

And what I was hoping would happen, on OpenAI. And these other companies, is that as the creation of these AI systems get closer and closer, you know, it started out being far in the future. As time goes on, and progress is made. It starts to feel like something that could happen in the next few years. Right?

GLENN: Yes, right.

DANIEL: As we get closer and closer, there needs to be a lot more waking up and paying attention. And asking these hard questions.

And a lot more effort in order to prepare, to deal with these issues. So, for example, OpenAI created the super alignment team, which was a -- a team of technical researchers and engineers, specifically focused on the question of how do we make sure that we can put any values into these -- how do we make sure we can control them at all?

Even when they're smarter than us.

So they started that team.

And they said that they were going to give 20 percent of their compute to -- towards me on this problem, basically.

GLENN: How much -- how much percentage. Go ahead.

DANIEL: Well, I don't know. And I can't say. But as much as 20 percent.

So, yeah. 20 percent was huge at the time.

Because it was way more than the company, than any company was devoting to that technical question at the time. So at the time, it was sort of a leap forward.

It didn't pan out. As far as I know, they're still not anywhere near 20 percent. That's just an example of the sort of thing that made me quit. That we're just not ready. And we're not even taking the steps to get ready.

And so we are -- we're going to do this anyway, even though we don't understand it. Don't know how to control it. And, you know, it will be a disaster. That's basically what got me delayed.

GLENN: So hang on just a second. Give me a minute.

I want to come back and I want to ask you, do you have an opinion on who should run this? Because I don't like OpenAI.

I like X better than anybody, only because Elon Musk has just opened to free speech on everything. But I don't even trust him. I don't trust any of these people, and I certainly don't trust the government.

So who will end up with all of this compute, and do we get the compute?

And enough to be able to stop it, or enough to be able to be dangerous?

I mean, oh. It just makes your head hurt.

We'll go into that when we come back.

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Sheets other thing that Preborn does. Because they care about mom, rather than the baby. That's what is always lost in this message. Mom is really important as well.

So they not only offer the free ultrasound. But they are there for the first two years. They help pay for what ever the mom needs.

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And another moment. Another miracle. And possibly another life.

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#250. Key word baby or visit Preborn.com/Beck.

It's Preborn.com/Beck. It's sponsored by Preborn. Ten-second station ID.
(music)
Daniel Kokotajlo.

He's former OpenAI researcher. AI futures project executive director. And talking about the reckless race, to use his words, to build AGI.

You can find his work at AI-2027.com.

So, Daniel, who is going to end up with control of this thing?

DANIEL: Great question.

Well, probably no one.

And if not no one, probably some CEO or president would be my guess.
GLENN: Oh, that's comforting.

DANIEL: Like in general, if you wanted them to understand, like, you know, my views, the views of my team at the Future Project. And sort of how it all fits together. And why we came to these conclusions. You can go read our website, which has all of this stuff on it.

Which is basically our best guest attempt after predicting their future.

Obviously, you know, the future is very difficult to predict.

We will probably get a bunch of things wrong.

This is our best guess. That's AI-2027.com.

GLENN: Yes.

DANIEL: Yeah. So as you were saying, if one of these companies succeed in getting to this army of geniuses on the data centers. Super intelligence AIs. There's a question of, who controls them?

There's a technical question, of can -- does humanity even have the tools it needs to control super intelligence AIs?

Does anyone control them?

GLENN: I mean, it seems to me --

DANIEL: That's an unsolved question.

GLENN: I think anyone who understands this.

It's like, we get Bill Gates. But it's like a baby gate.

Imagine a baby trying to outsmart the parent.

You won't be able to do it.

You will just step over that gate.

And I don't understand why a super intelligence wouldn't just go, oh, that's cute.

Not doing that. You know what I mean?

DANIEL: Totally. And getting a little bit into the literature here.

So there's a division of strategies into AI's control techniques, and AI's alignment techniques.

So the control techniques are designed to allow you to control the super intelligence AI. Or the AGI, or whatever it is that you are trying to control.

Despite the fact that it might be at odds with you. And it might have different goals than you have.

Different opinions about how the future should be. Right?

So that's it sort of adversarial technique, where you, for example, restrict its access to stuff.

And you monitor it closely.

And you -- you use other copies of the AI, as watchers.

To play them off against each other.

But there's all these sort of control techniques. That are designed to work even if you can't trust the AIs.

And then there's a technique, which are designed to make the case that you don't need the control techniques, because the AIs are virtuous and loyal and obedient. And trustworthy, you know, et cetera.

Right? And so a lot of techniques are trying to sort of continue the specified values, deeply into the AIs, in robust ways, so that you never need the control techniques. Because they were never -- so there's lots of techniques. There's control techniques. Both are important fields of research. Maybe a couple hundred people working on -- on these fields right now.

GLENN: Okay. All right.

Hold on. Because both of them sound like they won't work.

RADIO

The COVID Cover-Up Unraveled: Why No One’s Going to Jail for Millions of Deaths

The White House now fully backs the COVID-19 lab leak theory after years of calling it a conspiracy theory. Glenn reads from the new website, which explains why the evidence points to a man-made virus and highlights the roles of China, EcoHealth Alliance, Andrew Cuomo, Dr. Fauci, and others in the cover-up. But Glenn has known about most of this evidence for years. So, he asks, will anybody be held accountable for this? Will anybody go to jail? But it’s not just government officials who covered this up. It was the Legacy Media, which is STILL lying to you, and yet, millions of Americans still trust it.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: This morning, there was a story. Stu, can you check this out for me? See what gold is at right now.

Early this morning, when I got up around 5:00 a.m. Eastern, gold was spiking again. The highest place it's ever been.

Gold -- I mean, the dollar was starting to fall. Not good. It was today. I think it was three -- 3,300 -- I don't know. Sixty. Something like that. Do you have the number, Stu?

STU: Yeah. 3,435, currently.

GLENN: Holy cow.

STU: Up another 3 percent.

GLENN: 3500!

Almost 3500. That is -- this is not good!

This is not good. The gold going up is a sign of confidence, and the rest of the world -- central banks are buying gold up. And, you know, again, what do rich people know, that maybe you don't know?

Hmm. That things are shaky with the dollar. And things are shaky with gold. So you might want to consider that. I mean, I'm not a financial adviser. This is not a commercial. But I'm just telling you, that this is a big warning sign. Big, big, big warning sign. We're -- we're -- 3500, approaching $3,500 an ounce.

It was -- what was it? You said this just this last week. I had to look it up, Stu. It was at the beginning of the year that it was 2500? Almost came a thousand dollars?

STU: Yeah. I mean -- let's see. No. You're right on there.

It was, yeah. 2024, we were still at around $2,000 an ounce. Early 2024.

GLENN: Two.

Unbelievable!

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: Unbelievable.

STU: Five --

GLENN: We're not even halfway through.

STU: Yeah. Five. Pretty flat years for gold. Between 2020 and 2024. And then it started going up, in, you know, early to mid-2024.

Kind of like a rollercoaster story.

You're just climbing. Up at about 100 percent in the past five years.

But in -- in the past year, most of that gain has happened.

And, again, you've mentioned this for a long time.

Obviously, we talk about gold being a good hedge kind of against insanity. And a good piece of your portfolio.

However, you kind of almost don't want it to be this high. Because it's just in case. Such scary times.

GLENN: No. No. No. Bring lost my gold in that horrible boating accident.

STU: Terrible.

GLENN: You know, you would like -- gold is an investment. You would like it to go up. I don't want it to go up. I don't want it to go up anymore.

I would like it to come back down. This is a very, very bad sign.

All right. So the media over the weekend, they were like, oh.

Do you see what Donald Trump did to COVID.com?

Or .gov website. You put it on the White House dot-gov website. All the lies about COVID!

You mean all the corrections on COVID?

This is -- this is an amazing thing. And I would love to hear your just on this, Stu. About what they -- what they published at WhiteHouse.gov.

The origin, according to public health officials and the media, to discredit the lab leak theory, was prompted by Dr. Fauci to push the preferred narrative that COVID-19 originated naturally.

Point-one, the virus possesses a biological characteristic that is not found in nature. Number two, data shows that all COVID-19 cases come from a single introduction in to humans. This runs contrary to previous pandemics, where there were multiple spillover events. Three, Wuhan is home to China's four most SARS research lab. Which has a history of conducting gain of function research. Gene-altering and organisms super charging in an inadequate biosafety level.

Number four, Wuhan Institute of Virology, researchers were sick with COVID, with symptoms in the fall of 2019 months before COVID-19 was discovered at the wet market. We talked about that.

I mean, probably within a couple of months of COVID happening. We had that information.

We were like, let's look back. Why were they redoing all of that -- that institute?

You know, they completely gutted all of the air ducts. Everything else. They've completely upgraded it, around November.

And then lo and behold, in September, we start to find out, that whoa. Something in the wet market happened. By nearly all measures of science, if there was evidence of a natural origin, it would have already surfaced. But it hasn't. This is from the White House now. And it goes through all of it.

And then it goes through Fauci's pardon. And his obstruction. And EcoHealth's obstruction, and Dr. David. And, you know, the obstruction of your favorite person.

I think you'll -- I think you'll really like what they say about Andrew Cuomo on the website.

STU: Yeah, this is the best place on the entire internet for that reason.

GLENN: Cuomo's failures.

STU: Just says Andrew Cuomo's failure. And it's a great summary of his entire life, not just this particular issue.

But, you know, it's -- I've done a lot of it. If you followed this stuff closely, it was not new information. Right? It was a good summary.

GLENN: No.

STU: A breakdown of the stuff that we have learned over the past years on this. On this topic. I think the key thing maybe --

GLENN: You know what, I still don't think that it is recognized as the official thing.
I mean, this has been out now for a long time.

You know, we started doing most of this stuff we had in, what?

Six or eight months of the actual outbreak. We knew by the summer.

And we were broadcasting all of this. And we didn't have all of the documents. But we had everything that led up to the document. That said, hey. We have to change all of this.

We had the document before going, hey. I think you guys are wrong. Then a document that said, we should probably talk offline.

Then the next document we had, was no. Everything we were saying, is the complete opposite now!

We didn't have the middle document there. And that's been released now.

So we had all of this stuff, just not the smoking guns. All the smoking guns are there.

And I still don't think -- I mean, and it's partially because, who is going to jail over this?

Millions of people die. Millions.

Is anyone going to be held responsible for this?

STU: That's a great question.

I hope that's a high priority of the administration. There's several things of this level. I will also throw something like Joe Biden is mentally incapable to be president of the United States. And everybody was hiding it.

I put that in the same category.

But I think the key thing from this. Which I don't think enough people know, is the cover-up.

You know, I think -- yeah, that's the real -- it always is.

STU: You're right. We said a lot of these things in the months after COVID came out.

And A lot of it really early, frankly. But part of the problem as to why it didn't become, I think, the consensus at the time. Was all of these institutional mainstream sources, disagreeing with it. Right?

GLENN: Correct.

STU: And no offense --

GLENN: No offense. And the fact, Stu, we couldn't say anything about COVID and not get banned and demonetized.

STU: Oh, yeah.

GLENN: You know, all the shows that we did, unless you were a member of TheBlaze. See them.

We put them online. And you didn't see them.

STU: The solution of that problem was to say it anyway, and get banned and demonetized.

GLENN: Right. Right.

STU: What else are you going to do?

I don't know why else you would have this job, if you aren't going to go for that.

But there was that situation where, sure, we were saying it. And, sure, people in this audience, heard it.

And, yes. Some people on the right were familiar with the skepticism and the pushback on this stuff.

But because none of these mainstream outlets really adopted any of those positions, or took them seriously. Or even gave them a fair hearing. A lot of people just -- you know, understandably. If you're on the left. You look at this stuff, and you say, okay. Well, Glenn Beck is saying it.

I'm not going to believe it. The New York Times is saying it's a conspiracy theory.

I'm not surprised that they just believed that.

That cover-up, where people right under Fauci, are on record, saying they want to delete the emails, so that they can't -- so no one finds out what they're talking about.

That sort of stuff. While I think the lab leak theory. And some of those other pieces of skepticism. That the conservative side had early on.

Had been very much vindicated.

The cover-up as to why it needed to be vindicated. Has not really had the attention it deserves yet.

GLENN: 100 percent try.

Now, why?

Why?

STU: I mean, it's the same people. I will say, some of these -- some of these places have written about this now.

Some of these places have talked about -- talked about it. But it hasn't been -- you know, the, hey, did you know Donald Trump is Hitler sort of march?

And you would think, it would be. As you point out, millions of people have died here.

You would think it would be something that they would focus on, and draw a lot of attention to.
And continue to kind of beat the drum, until someone is held responsible.

And they don't seem to have any interest in that whatsoever. They kind of like -- it seems like, they're now under that stage.

Where they say, look, we have this op-ed.

We've talked about it. Like, and most of them have run an op-ed by now. Right? Like they've run.

But it's not been this constant thing. It's not this deep dive, constantly sending reporter after reporter after reporter to find out, what actually happened. That stuff doesn't seem to be of interest at all.

GLENN: If we make a mistake, we correct it.

Because it drives us crazy that we made the mistake.

And I don't -- I don't want anybody to believe that I'm standing behind something, that we found out was wrong and a lie.

I mean, we might be wrong from time to time.

But we have never knowingly lied.

I think some of won't groups.

They knowingly lied.

The New York Times, they were knowingly lying about Joe Biden and his senility. Knowingly lying. They knew. People in the media, knew. They just didn't want to hurt. Or I should say it this way. They just didn't want to help Donald Trump. They thought a senile old man with the buttons is much better than a Donald Trump.

They thought, not knowing who the president of the United States actually is. You know, they say they're defending the Constitution now.

Because if we don't have a Constitution. If we don't have rule of law. We have no country

Where is your rule of law with Joe Biden?

Who actually was running the White House?

Who was running it?

You don't want the rule of law. You want control.

That's what you want.

And, you know, I would be horrified, if I had been a part of any of that.

Horrified. They're not.

And, you know what, there's no -- there's no consequence.

They're not going to lose any advertisers. The New York Times hasn't lost any real money because of this.

They're just people continuing to watch.

I mean, if we were this wrong about things, I would hope that we would have seen a lot of cancellations.

I would hope that people were like, I don't know if we can trust you anymore, Glenn.

Because we would earn that.

Especially after a couple of years, by the way, all of that stuff we said was wrong.

Hey, in other news!

And that's what they're doing. They just run one little story.

And then they go on, but Donald Trump is Hitler!

Why should I -- that's the thing I just don't understand.

How do people continue to believe the people, who have been so wrong, about stuff that is this important.

They lied to you. They knowingly lied to you.

How? Donald Trump appointed someone to do DOGE.

Yeah. Well, he wasn't elected. Who was the president of the United States?

Because the guy we elected, he wasn't the president.

Why does it matter now, that DOGE, which the president has every right to do.

He's not the president. He's not making these calls on his own. He's reporting the president.

Why is DOGE such a problem, but, you know, Joe Biden crapping his pants and looking, trying to find old jellybeans in the couch from old Ronald Reagan days.

That's totally fine.

I mean, I don't know.

I don't know how people live with themselves. But they do, strangely.

STU: At the very least. Wouldn't it give you a sense of fallibility.

That like, hey. I can get sucked into something like this and be totally wrong, and I should really watch myself next time I decide, I want to write story number 9,345 that Trump is Hitler.

Maybe question whether my certainty is warranted. And I think that's the -- something they just never have that moment of self-reflection.

GLENN: I know. None. None.

It's come out.

Everything about the Russia gate.

Came out now in court documents.

That Hillary Clinton was the one that approved all of that.

And she knew it wasn't accurate. But she approved it.

Why? Why doesn't anybody know about that?

Why doesn't anybody care? Because no one in the media cares. Ends justice means. They just hate Donald Trump so much.

They'll do anything.

Anybody.

They will sleep with.

They will sharpen the knives of anyone that says they'll put it in the back of Donald Trump.

RADIO

Will the Vatican “Deep State” Pick the Next Pope?

Pope Francis has passed away at the age of 88. But will the next Pope follow in his footsteps? Glenn recalls his trip to the Vatican shortly before Pope Francis was elected and the eerie things he saw. He explains why he believes there was a “soft coup” to oust Pope Benedict and replace him with someone friendlier to the Davos globalists. Was Benedict the first victim of the Deep State, Glenn asks? Was he the first Donald Trump? And will the next Pope be like Francis, or will he embrace the more conservative traditionalist movement that’s converting many young people to Catholicism?

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: So yesterday, for Easter, by the way, happy Easter, Stu.

STU: Happy Easter, Glenn.

GLENN: Day after. Day after Easter.

STU: Yes. 364 days until the next one.

GLENN: Thank you very much. Wow, how do you do that? Are you a mathematician?

STU: No.

GLENN: J.D. Vance. Valentine's Day Vance was with the hope on Easter.

And then the Pope dies. That's all I'm going to say. I will leave it there. I draw your own conclusions there, America. No. He apparently had a good conversation with the pope. The pope died, he was very, very sick in the hospital.

He had pneumonia. So we're back to the -- we're back to the voting for a new pope. Now, if I may, let me just tell you a story that I don't think most in the media even understand. And if they do, they certainly won't touch it.

But I was there, back in 2013, I think. What did we decide? Was it '12 or '13? Something like that. I was at the Vatican. I was supposed to meet with the pope. I met instead, with a bunch of the high advisers for the pope.

And it was Pope Benedict at the time. And I just want to talk to you about what I learned there, and what we need to understand on this last pope. Because there was a quiet coup inside the walls of the Vatican.

The first public victim of the Deep State. Was not a president of the United States. It was the pope. It wasn't a priest. It wasn't a whistle-blower. It was Pope Benedict.

Benedict wasn't just a conservative. Although, he was a staunch conservative.

He was absolutely immovable. He was elected in 2005 pep stood for everything the modern world wanted the church to abandon.

He was moral. He had moral clarity. He was a traditionalist, and a spiritual authority.

And my first -- my first realization, that Pope Francis was going to be none of these things is when the media was talking. You know, they kept doing the white smoke and the black smoke. And they finally had, I don't remember what it is. The black smoke or the white smoke. They knew they had a pope. And they were awaiting. Speculating.

On everybody CNN and ABC. They were all speculating. Who could it possibly be. And they started to speculate. And they would say, it's probably this cardinal. He's a really hard-liner. He will be really bad. Blah, blah, blah. Then they finally came up to this pope. I don't remember what his real name is.

But they mentioned him. And they said, well, we don't know much about him. And within ten minutes, everybody on every network started talking about how great he was going to be.

He was practically Jesus.

And then when he was named Francis, oh, see!

He is Jesus. Or St. Francis, take your pick.

And I remember looking at you, Stu. And saying, oh, boy. We're in trouble.

They like him.

This guy is going to be a nightmare. So you had -- you had Benedict who would not compromise on life.

No surrender on marriage on the part of applause for, you know, the modern world. And the globalists hated him.

The media called him rigid. Progressives called him dangerous.

And the machine went to work behind closed doors.

Because that machine is in every government. And make no mistake, the Vatican is a government.

Scandal after scandal, corruption, abuse, all real problems. Yes. But they were used to discredit this pope.

And destabilize his papacy. And he refuse Todd banned. And then suddenly in 2014, he resigns. Now, I remember when this happens, gang.

Let's put this into what we now know, okay?

We now know who replaced him. We now have seen the Deep State in governments, all across the world.

Okay? We have seen people being voted for.
And the Deep State didn't like them. So they say, no. Not him!

We've seen them throw people in jail. Okay stop by 2013. He resigns. And he's the First Pope in 600 years to resign. And it's because he was too frail. He was too frail. He was too tired. Biden wasn't. But Benedict was.

Okay. And yet, he lived. For nearly ten years, he lived. He wrote. He was speaking. He was warning. He stayed in the Vatican, inside the walls.

He stayed in the Vatican. He wore white, signed his name, pope emeritus. That's not a retirement. That's him, not really resigning.

That's resistance. That's what that was. And into that vote, void, came Pope Francis.

Okay. Immediately, everything about the church changed. There was global applause. Oh, my gosh. Climate change sermons.

Remember those. Oh, they were great. Doctrinal. Ambiguity. To where the point, where Catholics were like, wait a minute. What is he saying here?

Suddenly the church is less about salvation. More about stainability. And collective salvation. Less moral compass. More moral relativism. And it seemed as though the fix was in.

Now, even members of some press overseas were saying, this was a coup.

Apparently, Benedict left a box, it's called a white box.

Full of scandal files. And it was not a gift to Pope Francis. It was a warning.

He knew, he saw it coming.

So it wasn't a resignation. It was a removal from office. A soft coup by the progressive faction inside the church.

Who was eager to align Rome with Davos. And make no mistake.

Davos was there. The UN was there. You know, all the global priorities of the UN and Davos were there. That have nothing to do with God.

But now, the church was aligned with all of it.

I remember going, as I said, we were supposed to meet with the pope. And I went and I met with several cardinals. I think the good cardinals. And I saw stuff I had never seen before.

It was -- it was amazing.

I saw the church as political, and as spiritual at the same time.

I'm a former Catholic, so I respect the Catholic Church. I also -- you know, I'm no dummy.

It is a political organization. I think most churches can, you know, go that direction. But it was especially one that's, what? 2000 years old. 1900 years old.

I think it can probably go awry from time to time.

And go political. Because that's what it was for a very long time. And I remember seeing the guy who I think was in charge. Is Jason out there. See if Jason can New Jersey for a second.

There was a guy who Jason was with me.

Rob, can you open up one of those mics, do you know?

Jason, remember when we were at the Vatican? You were in the room. Remember that big map room. It was like we were in the godfather. Okay. I don't remember what that place was.

But, you know, it was like near the Vatican. Right around the Vatican. And it was a place where they went and they held, you know, dignitaries. They held functions there.

And it was amazing. It was like a three-story room, that we were in.

And they were the biggest maps of the world. I've ever seen.

And all of the -- it was incredible.

And they had to be 400 years old. Would you agree with that.

Okay. So it's just steeped in, quite honestly, dead brown kind of -- right?

Only that. And I had just gotten out of the archives. The night -- the take before.

And I don't even know how I got this invitation.

But I was given an invitation. And even the guy who consulted the pope, for doctrinal issues. When we were, I don't know.

A quarter of the way into the archives. He was with me.

And I asked him a question. And he said, don't ask me. Ask him. I've never been allowed in here.

And the next day, when we were getting a tour from the head of the Vatican museum. He'll say, I will never guess where they were yesterday.

And said, they were in the Vatican archives. And he -- she stopped. She was the head of the museum. She stopped. She looked at me. And she said, tell me about it. What was that like?

So like, I don't know how we got in there. But we were asked to go in. So we're experiencing all of this stuff, and that night, we were with, I don't even remember who they were.

But they were the most Christ-like. You know, cardinals. Preachers. Whatever they were.

That I had -- had been with, the whole time.

They were so kind. You could just feel the goodness coming off of them. They were real servants of God.

And we were all standing around and talking.

And you could tell everybody's guard in that group. Everybody's guard was up.

And all of a sudden, and I'm not kidding you. The room dropped 10 degrees.

And I happened to be facing, looking at the door, way across this huge room.

And here comes this guy, I don't know if he was a cardinal. Wasn't he in charge of all of the pope's schedule or something?

JASON: Something like that.

GLENN: Okay. So he was the main guy, that you had to get by, if you were to get to the pope. And the room dropped. It became cold.

And I said, holy cow!

Who is that guy?

And the whole -- the whole group of really nice guys turned around and looked at him. And one of them turned back and said, oh, you can feel that?

And I said, oh.

Yeah. No offense. I didn't know if they liked him or not.

I said, no offense.

He doesn't seem like a good guy.

And he was way across the room. And they were like, oh, good sense on you.

Oh, no.

He's leading the opposition

So he's the guy, I think. That was helping thwart Benedict. And he was on, in the inside.

Okay. It's exactly the Trump story.

Would you agree?

JASON: Yeah. It felt like -- it felt almost like a Game of Thrones when the Vatican --

GLENN: It did. It did.

JASON: And it was the weirdest, weirdest feeling.

GLENN: Yeah. And it's exactly what we saw in 2016. I had never seen it before. But it's exactly what we saw in 2016.

It's what we're now seeing in the EU. Where the people with power are just taking people out.

The pattern here is really familiar. Because we've seen it in Washington. We've seen it in Hollywood.

We've seen it in the media. It's the replacement of the immovable. With those who are more malleable.

The strong replaced by the inclusive. The faithful with the fashionable. That's what happened.

And the Deep State doesn't just run in governments. It runs in everything.

It runs in institutions. And when those institutions start to resist the world's direction. They're infiltrated.

They're neutralized. And they're repurposed. And it is in everything.

It happened at the Vatican. I saw it!

And Pope Benedict was the warning shot, that we all missed.

He was the first Donald Trump, I believe. Now, what happens next?

Are we going to get somebody, you know, as the church is starting to grow again, the Catholic Church is starting to grow. And it's growing with Generation Z, who are saying, we want our traditions back. We want marriage.

We want truth!

We want eternal truth, as it's laid out in the gospels of Jesus Christ.

As it's growing, will the church grow in that direction, or has Francis put such a cabal in there, that you might get somebody who says that, but is doing -- is it going to be, yeah. We just elected a new guy and he's doing exactly what the last guy did?

Just the way it happens in our government, and every other government on earth!

We'll see!

It begins today.

Glenn's Show Prep

Finding Virtue in Hell: Glenn Headed to Bangkok With Operation Underground Railroad

Shocking Surge: Why Young People Are Flocking to GOD in Droves

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Former OpenAI Researcher WARNS of “Reckless Race” for AI Control

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The COVID Cover-Up Unraveled: Why No One’s Going to Jail for Millions of Deaths

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Will the Vatican “Deep State” Pick the Next Pope?

Transcript