GLENNMarch 20, 2017

Kelly Shackelford on Why Gorsuch Is a Rock Solid Pick

Kelly Shackelford, president and CEO of First Liberty Institute, the largest legal firm in the nation dedicated exclusively to protecting religious freedom for all Americans, joined Glenn on set today to discuss the qualifications of Judge Neil Gorsuch for the Supreme Court. Shackelford gave Gorsuch glowing marks.

"A lot of people look at his education and see how incredible it was. He goes to Columbia undergrad, Harvard law school and then he went to Oxford. A lot of people don't know why he went to Oxford. He went Oxford to study under the top brain in the world on natural law, a guy by the name of John Finnis, the guy who trained Robby George," Shackelford said.

Additionally, Gorsuch has written or joined about 3,000 opinions which give a long history of his philosophy and beliefs.

"We're ahead of the curve, I'm just telling you," Shackelford said.

To watch the Gorsuch confirmation hearings and get analysis, go to TrumpNominee.com, a website created by Shackelford's organization.

Enjoy the complimentary clip above or read the transcript below for details.

GLENN: Kelly Shackelford is the president and CEO of FirstLiberty.org. He is probably the guest that everybody wants to have on this week talking about the new Supreme Court nominee and the hearings that are going on this week because this is what he does for a living is look at the courts in regards to religious freedom, especially, but freedom and the constitutionalist view of the Supreme Court nominee. This is what he does. He looks for the case to be made. Do the Democrats have a case to be made that this guy is out of control? Do we have -- can we take real solace in the fact that this guy won't turn out to be John Roberts. We go to Kelly beginning right now.

Welcome to the program, Kelly Shackelford, how are you?

KELLY: Great.

GLENN: It's good to have you here.

KELLY: Good to be here.

GLENN: You were looking at the list of all of the Supreme Court nominees when they had a list of 20, and I believe he was on your short list, Gorsuch, of somebody that you felt pretty comfortable with. Going into this, how comfortable are you that he's not John Roberts or any of the other conservatives that we always nominate, and then they always turn out to be a huge progressive?

KELLY: Well, there's a few things about him and what Republicans were doing in the past. In the past, there's this Republican thing of picking people without a record. And John Roberts, for instance, I mean --

GLENN: That was Ted Cruz's argument against him.

KELLY: And that's what people did. Now, John Roberts has been solid on most cases. ObamaCare twice, inexplicably.

GLENN: He wrote the law.

KELLY: Exactly. I will point out it was those two cases that -- not on the same-sex marriage case or the --

GLENN: Pretty big, though.

KELLY: I agree with you. But John Roberts was the guy who had no record. Now, that usually says one of two things. If you're 50 years old, and you have no conservative record, you're either --

GLENN: You're not a conservative.

KELLY: You're either not a conservative, or you're hiding. And if you're hiding, then how much courage are you going to have when the heat's on? That's the approach that the Republicans had. That's not their approach anymore. Really it, it changed. You have Harry being appointed by President Bush. That didn't work. So they went back and said I'm going to pick a full fledged conservative with a long record and guess what? Alito got through. They tried to filibuster, they got 25 votes. So since then now, it has changed. When you look at Gorsuch, he had 3,000 opinions that his name's connected to. Either he wrote or joined those opinions. So you see a long sloth of where his philosophy has been, what he believes, where he stands, so that's a little different.

GLENN: Chuck Schumer said there are many reasons to fear him. But the one that they're going after is that he's a corporatist, that he's always for the corporation and he's just going to sink us all because smokestacks will be everywhere.

KELLY: Really silly. What you find with Gorsuch is he doesn't really care who the plaintiff and told are. He's just going to go what does the law say? And that's the result. And the funny thing when you ask him if he's this person that you're saying he is, then what are the opinions? And if you pull out two or three opinions, he'll go wait. Those are unanimous, and you have a liberal Democrat joining on the opinions. So I've never seen such a weak set of attacks on anybody. They really don't have anything on him, so I think their only hope is to create something in the hearing to hope that he says something or does something. Because I think right now, they're in serious trouble at trying to stop.

GLENN: It seems like -- I mean, it was a really big deal. A lot of people voted for Trump because of this. In fact, I would say perhaps a majority of people voted for Trump because of this. And yet, here we are on the hearings, and it doesn't seem like it's going to be a big deal. It doesn't seem like when we were building up, we knew that was going to be a big deal and a big fight. Is it because we're replacing Scalia that it's not that big of a deal? Or what's happening?

KELLY: I think that's part of it. I think part of it most people for whatever reason don't even know it's occurring. We put a website up TrumpNominee.com where people can, like, watch the hearing, get the information, you know, where does he stand, what are his past opinions, what does the NRA say about him, what do the right to life say about him, what do the different groups out there have to say, I think most people have no idea that the hearings are starting this week.

GLENN: Starting today. We won't hear from him until later this afternoon.

KELLY: Right. It's something they don't know. And the media I think is probably not playing this up because I think they realize that as far as the left wing, this is not going to work out well for them, most likely. So they're not highlighting this. I do think, you're right, though, I do think if we had the next nominee.

GLENN: The next one's going to be big.

KELLY: The rumors are it's going to happen soon, like, within the next year. And let's say if Kennedy did step down, now you're talking about the control of the court because you essentially -- when you had Scalia, you had four conservatives, four liberals, and one that moves back and forth.

GLENN: Kennedy was a conservative appointed; right?

KELLY: He was, but he has been voting on both sides of the issue.

GLENN: Never trust a Kennedy.

[Laughter]

KELLY: Theoretically if you replace Kennedy, you're talking about a lot of huge issues now that if you had issues. You're talking about big issues. You can see the other side would really come out for that next seat. Where this, really, the conservatives the best they can do is stay even with replacing Scalia.

GLENN: Correct.

KELLY: Now, I think they're going to do that. In fact, some people may think that Gorsuch was more conservative than Scalia. But not as conservative as Thomas. But more conservative than Scalia.

GLENN: How close are these guys? I know that Scalia and Ginsberg were really close and good friends. I really wish that Ginsberg would have spoken at his funeral, because I would have liked to show America that you can be on complete opposite ends of the spectrum and still be good friends. But how close is Thomas with Roberts? Do they influence each other at this point?

KELLY: I don't know how much they influence, but they are friends. The uniqueness of the Scalia/Ginsberg relationship, they grew up in New York. There was a real connection there. And they're friends with one another. They're in a very small, special group, obviously. But guys like Thomas aren't really influenced by what other people say or do.

GLENN: So do you think -- I mean, Calvin Coolidge, nominated a good friend of his who is a staunch, he thought, conservative. He gets onto the court, and he's so bad, he becomes proving that even FDR makes him the chief justice. Really crazy. Do they get in to the court, do you think some of them get into the court and think "Well, now I have such an important position, and I want to legacy."

Does that happen?

KELLY: Yeah, I think the old cocktail circles in DC wanting to fit in, wanting to be accepted. I mean, that's always what people really worry about. I think that's one of the unique things that Gorsuch has going for him that a lot of others didn't, and that is his mom was the head of the EPA under Reagan and was savagely attacked by the Democrats. And he felt that sting. It's well-known. I think he knows who his friends are and aren't, so I don't think he would fall into that trap.

GLENN: That's the best case I've heard yet.

KELLY: When you have somebody, though, who doesn't have a lot of record, and then they go in there, and then they get the social pressure, you can see that kind of thing happening. Again, Gorsuch has 3,000 opinions connected with him. He has a pretty strong, deep philosophy that's been expressed for many years. Anybody can surprise us; right? I mean, people are people but, you know, this is about as good of record -- we're a group that focuses on religious liberty. We've never seen anybody with this many solid religious liberty opinions. I mean, he wrote the lower court. He was involved on the right side on hobby lobby, on little sisters of the poor, on just a number of these cases where you've heard about them later and maybe he was in the dissent, depending upon which one it was. But he always did the right thing, wrote an excellent opinion, stood for religious freedom, so I think he's going to be good on a lot of the constitutional issues that your listeners really care about. Really solid because he's an originalist, and he doesn't think it evolves what he wants it to mean, which is the common approach.

STU: I've heard the argument Gorsuch has made a lot of decisions that would indicate he would be on the pro-life side. However, there's never been a specific ruling by him on abortion. What is your level of concern on that?

KELLY: I don't really have any. Again, he's really solid about what does the constitution say? He's not going to create things that aren't there. He criticized -- there's an article where he actually criticized the LGBT community for trying to use the courts instead of the legislative process and opinion. So even if he would agree with something, you would never think to use the courts.

GLENN: You think there is a constitutional case for pro-life?

KELLY: I think he is more likely to say this is something left to the legislative process.

GLENN: I'm asking you. Is there a --

KELLY: There's an argument. People can argue under the 14th amendment. There's a right to life.

GLENN: What about the preamble?

KELLY: Yeah, I mean, there are people that look at that and say he would look at the original intent of what the founders were doing with those things, whether they were trying to create a substantive right. Again, I think you're going to find a lot of the more conservative judges are more -- if it's not clearly there, then let's leave it to the legislative process.

GLENN: Why is that when, you know, I quoted several of the signers of the constitution and decoration today that took a stand. I mean, this was not unheard of in the day. Abortion was a thing, and they all came out as that's murder. Why is that not in the constitution or do they just think it was so plain that murder is murder?

KELLY: I think that's it. There are a lot of things that they couldn't conceive that we would have to deal with. I mean, same-sex marriage; right? A lot of these things we're seeing now, they didn't even think of, so they didn't address them, necessarily, in the constitution in a direct way. I do think Gorsuch, you got a little bit more on where he stands, at least, personally. He wrote a book on euthanasia. His editor of the book was professor Robert George. Probably one of the most well respected --

GLENN: Oh, yeah. Robby George is fantastic.

KELLY: A lot of people look at his education and see how incredible it was. He goes to Columbia undergrad, Harvard law school, and then he went to Oxford. A lot of people don't know why he went to Oxford. He went Oxford to study under the top brain in the world on natural law. A guy by the name of John Finnis, the guy who trained Robby George.

GLENN: Long-standing philosophy. Let me ask you this final question. Nobody is really thinking about this. But he's young enough to be dealing with in the next 10 to 20 years. Is he going to be able to handle or is anybody looking into the definition of life when it comes to AI? I mean, we're moving into the realm of trans-humanism, and that is going to be an issue. Have you seen anything from him on that?

KELLY: Well, I don't know how he would do -- you would have to look what legal case. But I think he's probably got the most extensive background to prepare him for that than any justice because, again, he studied his Ph.D. in understanding of natural law of life. What did he write his book on? Euthanasia. That he steeped on that philosophy.

GLENN: I wonder which way he would go on that.

STU: Two questions. One is this the first question you have had about trans-humanism with Neil Gorsuch.

GLENN: We're ahead of the curve, I'm just telling you.

STU: And he's a good Trump skeptic for Supreme Court because we were ought about it, and I didn't think it would be this good. I feel like Gorsuch is towards the top of that list and looking at it from my perspective, I think he did a great job with this pick. If you wanted your favorite guy for president, Rand Paul, Mike Lee, whatever, any of those guys, and they pick Neil Gorsuch, is that a good pick for them as well?

KELLY: Yeah. I think he's a good pick.

STU: It's that good.

KELLY: There are people out there that are, like, why aren't they on the list? But I'm not saying they're better than Gorsuch. I think we're going to have to wait and see, of course, after he gets on the court. But everything we see, we've got so many opinions. We have this steeped training background. We have this situation that happened in his own family where his mother was really unfairly treated by Democrats. So I don't think he's going to go to DC and cozy up. So there's a lot of things in his favor that, again, his manner is mild and humble and, again, I think that's why they can't attack him. They can't make him -- he's just -- that's not his personality. So I think they're really desperate during these hearings to get him to make a mistake, somehow, which I don't see him doing.

GLENN: If you really want to know where everybody stands from NRA on down the line, go to TrumpNominee.com. That's TrumpNominee.com. You'll be able to watch the hearings, get the analysis there, and, Kelly, I would love to have you back to get a highlight of what we saw, starting tomorrow because the hearings kind of start today with opening statements. Thank you so much, Kelly, appreciate it.

KELLY: Thanks for having me.

GLENN: TrumpNominee.com.

[break]

GLENN: I just asked Kelly to stay for a extra couple of minutes. How is he on privacy and the commerce clause?

KELLY: He's great on the commerce clause. On privacy, I would have to know what the issue -- what you're going to find with him is he's one of those boring guys that's going to say what does the statute say? What does the constitution say? What did it mean?

GLENN: For instance, the gathering information on everyone. I mean, to me, the constitution is very, very clear. No, unless you have a warrant.

KELLY: Yeah, I would think you would be solid. You see, privacy has been converted into all kinds of other things. It was the basis for Roe v. Wade, so you can stretch it and turn into something else. What you're going to find with him, though, is he's all about what does it say? And now, I do think one of the things that's really important -- I don't want to glaze people's eyes over, they show deference to bureaucrats. So congress passes a law, and they say we'll let the bureaucrats decide how to pass the law. And then they massively violate people's rights. Including criminal-type things. And then the court says we defer. We have chevron deference. He has been really strong on that saying, no, we protect our constitution.

STU: Better than Scalia on this issue.

GLENN: And that's where people like Mike Lee are going in congress.

KELLY: Absolutely.

JEFFY: Another thing you mentioned, there might be another opening.

GLENN: You said Kennedy.

KELLY: The rumors are there's going to be another.

GLENN: I've heard as soon as, like, ten months.

KELLY: That's very, very possible. I think we very well might have another one of these before a year from now.

PAT: So Kennedy maybe is stepping down then; right?

KELLY: He could be. He probably wants to step down under a Republican. He was appointed under a Republican. If you wait too late towards the end, then it gets stalled up.

STU: As every liberal in the audience is saying right now with Merrick Garland, you get too close to the end, you might not get a vote.

KELLY: So that's people talking about voluntarily stepping down if there's health issues, so that could be even more.

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Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: So it has been a little frightening this week. And you're looking at things.
And, you know, Donald Trump might seem calloused to some.

Because he will just say, you know, hey. Stop freaking out. Stop freaking out.

And it's easy to say that, as a negotiator. If you're negotiating in a company. And you can say to your staff, behind closed doors. Listen, we are going to do some stuff.

But I'm negotiating. Don't freak out. Anybody freaks out. We will lose the negotiation.

Don't freak out. He's been trying to do that.

But he has to say it on a global stage. Where everybody is watching him.

So he's trying to say, don't freak out. I've got this.

I've got this.

And it's required us to have faith.

And, you know, that's hard to give to a politician. Any politician.

Especially if you didn't vote for that politician. If you don't like Donald Trump. You're not going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

You will think he's destroying the country.

And it's really interesting. Because those who didn't vote for Donald Trump, because they thought he would destroy the country, most likely voted for the last administration.

And it didn't matter that they were literally on the take from one of our enemies.

Literally making millions of dollars, taking money, to influence decisions, from China.

It didn't matter that they were lying. They were cheating. That they were literally stealing from you, now we know, through USAID.

Through all of these NGOs. They were literally stealing from you.

Let alone, lying to you!

Remember when I told you about The Great Reset? Something ESG.

DEI.

All these things that we now are very, very well aware of, and we know. They are absolutely true.

They were implemented by the same people who said they were conspiracy theories.

I mean, that's the one thing I can't get past is the people. How do you get past?

How do you hate Donald Trump so much, that you can still run to the people who have lied to you over and over again?

About things that do matter. You know, when Donald Trump said, I have the biggest -- I had the biggest crowd ever!

It doesn't matter. If he's telling the truth or lying.

Does that matter?

No. We're not. We're not. We're not. Trying to undermine capitalism and go to a global government through ESG and DEI and the World Economic Forum.

That lie matters. That one matters. That one will matter for generations.

That one matters to your children and your grandchildren.

But for some reason, some people will just continue to dismiss that.

I want to remind you, that while we're in this situation, with China. First of all, China is the source of COVID.

Did you see this week, what they came out with, on -- that Biden covered up something we reported on, almost, I mean, within a couple of months of COVID.

We said, you know, we've been doing our homework on this. And there was an event with the global army. And all of the armies around the world, that were kind of war gaming and getting together. And our troops were there too.

And it was all in Wuhan. And they came home, and they were sick.

Remember that? And we were like, that might have been the first kind of outbreak of this.

And everyone called us conspiracy. They just -- they just released the documents that show that Joe Biden that afternoon. It was try.

And they buried it.

So we're dealing with a country like China. Really, really bad. You know that, and I know that.

We are dependent on China now! And that can't happen.

Do you remember what COVID was like, when everybody was like, oh, you can't get that. You can't get that.

You can't get surgical masks, because they're all made in China.

How many times did we, in 2020, 2021, 2022 say, I've never seen this in the United States before.

Wait a minute. There's a shortage of, what?

Okay. We weren't used to that.

Don't forget that. Don't forget that.

Especially when it comes to things like medication and rare earth minerals.

You may not know exactly what rare earth minerals are. Or your friends might not know.

But rare earth minerals are what -- it's going to control the world!

You don't have access to rare earth minerals, you can't make batteries or chips.

Okay? Nothing! China is buying them up from all over the world.

And we have created this country, where we can't even mine our own rare earth minerals, and underneath some of our mountains, we have more rare earth minerals than every place in the world combined!

But our government has shut that off. Now, why?

Again, may I remind you of what we just came out of.

The Cloward and Piven strategy. Cloward and Piven were these two university professors, back in the '60s. And when I first brought them up, back in the early 2000s, everybody was like, that's crazy.

She's just a sweet old lazy lady.

She didn't mean any of that stuff.

Yes, she did. Yes, she did.

She was the one at the White House, with Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton. That did the motor voter law.

That was her. Why?

Get people, everybody who is registered for a license. Get them registered to vote.

The whole thing -- her whole plan with her husband, Cloward and Piven, the whole thing was to collapse America. Economically.

Overwhelm the system, and collapse it economically.

We're dealing with that reality.

Okay?

Whether it's intentional or not.

We all know, we all know, you look back -- I look at this world, and you see, my gosh.

It's just a sprawling, chaotic system, that we've all been swept up in.

And it has strangely worked in many ways, until it doesn't work.

Because of his something like COVID.

And then all falls apart.

And you look at everything that we're doing. The endless wars.

The draining of our spirit.

And our resources. With these endless wars. Government spending like there's absolutely no tomorrow.

Printing money, until it feels like Monopoly cash. Globalism, that has left us leaning on our enemies, for things as basic as medicine and rare earth minerals.

Elites in our universities. And now running our schools. That are destroying our children, by teaching them to be victims.

And not teaching them how to empower themselves, by learning how to think!

Worst of all, the global governments. The World Economic Forum.

The WHO. The United Nations.

All of those things that have said to us, for years. No. We're not doing that. We're not doing that.

And now we know that they have been doing that. And with our help, from the elites in our own governments. And they have redesigned the world.

They have infiltrated a compliant press, that denies the truth.

They are continually defying common sense.

And they are defying the -- the will of the people. Openly.

Openly. Destroying our nations.

Destroying our history.

Our unity. Now arresting those who dare stand against them.

Whether it's the guy down the street on the school board or at the school board meeting. That is like, hey. You guys are all crooks. What are you doing to my kids?

Those who are protesting rape gangs in England.

Actual leaders running for higher office against the machine in France and Romania.

They tried to do it here.

This is all a house of cards.

And it's trembling under its own weight. And deep down. Every single one of us know it.

One way or another.

We all know it. Whether you're in denial or not, that's up to you. Even those on the left, the ones who have been loudest about keeping it going, all along. The ones who are now protesting and burning Tesla. Unless you're a useful idiot. Unless you're someone who is like, yeah. Our side is always right.

I will burn down a Tesla factory.

Unless you're just a useful idiot, you know, this is not about what's right and wrong.

This is about keeping the decline of this nation, and the entire West, on that path.

Because the elites, some of those that are tied to the last president, and his circle. Pushed this idea, of the Great Reset.

Which is a managed decline.

They see the cracks, just as much as I do. They're trying to control the fall, so they can control our future.

They know there's too much money to be lost. So let's get together with all the big banks. And the big corporations.

And finding out more and more. Our CIA. And everybody else.

And we will manage this collapse, keep the people down. Keep the people quiet. And then we will control everything, and we will reset. That's -- that's not -- God didn't give you the right to do that! God didn't give anybody for anybody to do that to a whole population of people!

So this is what we've been fighting against. And now Donald Trump is standing up and saying, that is so deep and metastasized. To save it, we have to turn this thing 180 -- this is the world's largest aircraft carrier, ever in the imagined nation of mankind. It's like an imperial stormtrooper ship. You know, of a -- of a -- you know, of an aircraft carrier.

Practically half a continent. And you have to turn that thing around!

So let me talk to you about fear.

Just that, should scare the hell out of all of you. Every single one of us, it should scare our children and our children's children. It should scare everybody within the sound of my voice. Because you know it's true!

There is trouble, whether it's intended or not, this doesn't work anymore!

Okay?

And basis we got off common sense. And common values.

Now the question is: Are you going to fear it, or are you going to face it?

And that's really what this election, I think was about. At least for me!

I see one guy who is willing to stand up and say the truth, and then actually follow through with action.

I don't see politicians follow through with action. He is actually not afraid of doing it! I'm not afraid of the truth.

You shouldn't be afraid of the truth. The truth will set us all free!

It's scarier to pretend it's not there!

Yeah. It's going to be tough. It's going to be really tough. We have some hard times ahead of us. There's no sugarcoating.

Nobody should sugarcoat that.

But it's, what is the goal at the end?

Is it for the elites to control everything?

Or is it to give you power?

Because both of them are risky. Both of them could end in violent revolution.

Both of them could fail.

But I know which side I want to win. I want the side that says, hey. These values are worth fighting for, and trying to save.

And it might be our World War II. It might be our Great Depression.

It might be our Civil War. But I would rather take that on, then pass it on to my children. Because I would have my children to have the opportunity sooner rather than later to be free.

The system has been running on fumes. And when it finally sputters out, we're going to feel the jolt, one way or another.

What's been happening this week, is dedicated people, who know what's going on. That says, okay.

I don't want the pain.

But I would rather take it on my shoulders now, than pass it on my kids.

Because we might be able to save it now, if we're honest about what we're facing.

Let me carry the load. Let me mess with the mess that we've made. So they don't have to!

Because a controlled fire is good!

Forest fires are good too, in the end. Long run. But a controlled fire is good.

It gets rid of all the underbrush. And it actually replenishes the soil, so something good could grow. And some controlled burns are going to happen. We have a chance here to rebuild, to rethink how we live.

We cannot continue to rely on far off enemies. We have to start looking closer to home. To our own soil.

To our own hands. To our own people.

We can make things again.

Not the things we made in the past.

We're never going back to those days.

Something new and better is on the horizon.

But we can grow things.

We can stand on our own 2 feet. It's time to say, you're 25 years old. You're not a kid. Adolescence now. Adolescence now lasts until you're 25!

In George Washington's time, you were an adult when you were 13!

Are we getting better or weaker? This is not going to be easy. But what is the -- what's at the end, will either be completely bogus, or real again.

And somewhere inside of me, I know we're not done yet.

World has been through collapse before, empires fall, systems crumble.

But the ones who make it, are the ones who dust themselves off.

So I am for one, willing to take the hit.

I am willing to grit my teeth. Because I believe in what's on the other side.

And I know it's -- you can say it's easy for you to say, Glenn. But I only succeed when you succeed.

I get paid a salary because you have the money to buy things that we advertise. So if you don't succeed, I don't succeed.

I lose everything too. I just want to encourage you to pray on this, this weekend.

And -- and find the strength to at least face the truth. And turn the page.

Because it's not just about survival.

It's a new start!

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

Why Trump Must ANNIHILATE Mexico’s Cartels Like ISIS | The Glenn Beck Podcast | Ep 253

Ravaged by political corruption, decades of mass murder, unfettered human trafficking, and a spiraling fentanyl crisis, Mexico is a “fragile narco-state,” says Brandon Darby, co-founder of Breitbart’s Border and Cartel Chronicles. While Mexican media and journalists are silenced by fear of cartel retribution, Darby has spent years exposing atrocities like the mass graves found miles from our southern border, giving a voice to a nation ignored and terrorized into silence. Darby criticizes U.S. diplomatic efforts focused on reforming Mexico’s justice system and depicts a U.S.-Mexico border rife with lawlessness and violence, urging Trump to enact border policies that “treat the cartels like we treat al-Qaeda” and not to forget that “China is courting Mexico.”

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Transcript

Why Trump Must ANNIHILATE Mexico’s Cartels Like ISIS | The Glenn Beck Podcast | Ep 253