GLENN: All right. The debate over Mike Pence and his personal policy of not eating dinner alone with a member of the opposite sex has created quite a stir in America because, you know, we don't have anything important going on, right? I mean, this is the most important thing we could argue about. Let's keep things into perspective. The thing we have to argue about is Mike Pence.
Mike Pence is not the guy who created the policy. It was crafted back in the 1940s. And it's known as the Billy Graham rule. Named after Billy Graham, the evangelist who followed the same standard in his own life and ministry. Graham is said to have drafted the rule in 1948, as part of a four-pronged moral approach to ministry. It was important to uphold the highest standard of Biblical morality and integrity, according to Billy Graham in 1948. The rules of the Billy Graham rule in his book Just As I Am.
We all knew of evangelists who had fallen into immorality while separated from their families by travel. We pledged among ourselves to avoid any situation that would even have the appearance of compromise and suspicion. From that day on, I did not travel, meet, or eat alone with any woman other than my wife.
Let's just start on that one. Why is that one so bad? Listen to this.
What did he say? We all know of evangelists who had fallen into immorality while separated from their families by travel.
STU: So trying to take a step to solve that problem.
GLENN: Not only that, wanting to -- we pledged among ourselves to avoid any situation that would even have the appearance of compromise or suspicion.
We all know that because of what happened in the '80s and '90s with Jim Baker and all of that stuff, that evangelists started to look like scumbags. All of them were dirtbags. Back in the '90s, it felt like every single guy who was a priest or a pastor was a dirtbag.
STU: Yeah, the documentary Fletch really covered that thing pretty well.
GLENN: No, that's not really a documentary.
So what is he doing? Now, he's saying this in 1948, when apparently they were having problems with it too. And he said, let's just to avoid all appearance.
Well, that's to restore the honor and integrity of the people of the cloth. Is there anything wrong with that?
STU: I mean, I can tell you obviously the left has lots of problems with this.
GLENN: Of course they do.
STU: And, you know, you can make an argument. Right? And his standard is actually tougher than the Pence standard. Because it was not even meet or eat. The Graham standard was not even meet.
GLENN: Yeah, meet or eat alone with any woman other than my wife.
STU: Uh-huh. I mean, that's even more strict than what Pence was saying.
PAT: And there's this snarky about how insulting that is -- an insulting view of men and a limiting role for women. We're either there to entice or domesticate. That's not the point.
GLENN: No, it's the appearance.
PAT: It's to avoid the appearance. Avoid the temptation. Avoid any of those things.
GLENN: And it's also to avoid the situation that someone can say something happened in a meeting that didn't happen.
PAT: Right. Right.
STU: Yeah, there's certainly an understandable thing to protect yourself from. We've seen obviously many high profile people have been in situations where they've been accused of things, which they say. I mean, who knows what the truth is? But they say they didn't do. Certainly some of those stories are true.
GLENN: Take it this way.
Did Roger Ailes go after these women at Fox?
PAT: I don't know.
STU: We don't know. It seems --
GLENN: Well, it seems what?
STU: We don't know. There's a lot of people accusing him of doing that. And the company made him millions and millions of dollars.
GLENN: Okay. Next level. Is there a possible that he did do some of these and he didn't do others?
STU: Yes. Of course.
GLENN: So if he had this standard, would that have happened?
PAT: No, because he wouldn't have been alone with them.
STU: I mean, it could have happened. But there would have been less evidence. Less people would have probably believed it. You know, we have no idea. Like I have no personal knowledge of him ever having a personal meeting with either one of these women.
GLENN: No, neither do I.
STU: So they could obviously say that happened anyway. But you're right. If he was known for having a lot of these private meetings, it would be more believable in the company that these things occurred. Sure.
STU: You know, I think there's a line there. First of all, with the idea of doing it for appearance's sake, which is, you know -- it's not -- that's on you.
STU: If you have an inaccurate belief of what's happening in my life and you decide to judge it that way, that's not on me. Now, I have to deal with the consequences if everyone believes some lie, right?
But it's not my fault -- it's not my responsibility to craft what your opinion is of me. It is not -- that is on you. If you decide to believe something that is not true for whatever reason, because you think I'm having dinner with somebody, that's really not my fault. So I can understand that being, you know, an argument. And I'm -- from the left side, I make this as a little bit of a devil's advocate point, the left is saying, look, we all know -- and this is true -- that if you're a guy and you get a chance to be alone with a boss and make your case, you have a good chance -- a chance of improving. Also, by the way, blowing your career up. Sometimes -- I mean, those meetings happen too. Where you have this nice big meeting and you come up with this great idea. And they're like, that's the dumbest idea in the world.
But that moment is important, especially as you're coming up in a company. If you're able to impress a boss in a one-on-one situation, that could be big for your career. And what women are arguing are, wait a minute. Guys can do that with you, but I can't.
PAT: You don't have to go to dinner to do that. You can do that at the office.
STU: Although that can't happen, with Billy Graham's rule. You wouldn't be able to do it at the office.
STU: But Pence's rule, he did just say it was dinner. However, business gets done in this country over dinner and drinks all the time. That's very common. So if the guy can go out with you -- now, it's one thing if you say, I'm never meeting with anyone one on one. But if you say, I'm going to meet with guys one on one, and I'm not going to meet with women one on one.
GLENN: No, I think that's wrong.
STU: They can say --
GLENN: Yeah, I think you can't say, as a -- as a boss, "Hey, you know what, Phil, we've got some work to do. Let's just go grab a beer. Let's do this after dinner." And not do that with women. I don't think -- I think that sets an unfair balance because there is bonding. Hey, you know what, let's just go play a round of golf. Just the two of us. Let's play a round of golf.
GLENN: If you won't play golf with everybody, then you shouldn't play golf with anyone.
STU: That's interesting. Because I don't think that's the -- I don't think that's the Pence standard or what most people were defending the Pence standard were arguing.
GLENN: But I can see how that's perceived as unfair.
GLENN: Look, you're going to go out and bond with somebody.
GLENN: And you're not giving me the chance to bond with you. And when it comes to executive level positions, it really is about who you can bond with and who you can trust.
Now, I don't need to play a round of golf. I don't need to have a private dinner with somebody.
GLENN: I mean, is there a guy that you know of that has hired more women as executives than me?
STU: No. Many. And you obviously have met with all of them.
STU: At one time or another. Especially when you're hiring someone to a big position that you trust, you want to have a one-on-one conversation to get to know them.
But, for instance, I would never travel -- for instance, my assistant, Misheal, I wouldn't travel alone with Misheal, just the two of us going out for -- hey, I got to go to San Francisco. Misheal, just the two of us go --
PAT: Nor would you invite a woman out to dinner, just the two of you? I can't imagine that. Would you do that?
GLENN: No. Well, I don't do that with anybody anyway because my wife is --
PAT: Yeah. There's nothing wrong with taking your wife on this trip with you, with another woman, and giving her a promotion then.
STU: But you're saying to the woman, we have to have a chaperone. I can't have a moment with you.
You know, there are moments in one on one where -- yes, there are moments where one on one also creates sex, which is obviously the point here.
STU: However, there are a lot of moments where one on one might create a real trust in a business relationship. And the fact that you have somebody else at the dinner --
PAT: You can do that at the office. You can always do that at the office. You don't have to do that at dinner. I would never do it. I wouldn't do it.
GLENN: I started watching a movie. We have Mark Duplass on today, who is great. He's an independent filmmaker. But he also --
STU: You'd probably know him from The League, if you ever watch The League on FX. He's like the main character on that show.
GLENN: Okay. So he's brilliant. He did a movie called Blue Jay. Now, he's just done a three-movie deal with Netflix, where I don't even think they asked him -- I don't even think they asked him for the movies. They're just like, here's money. Go make three movies.
He's really brilliant. Watched his movie Blue Jay, started watching it last night. And it's brilliant. Really brilliant. And it's about two people that were teenage, you know, love story. And have just loved each other -- they're in their '40s now and they still love each other. But hadn't seen each other for 25 years. And there's some tension between them. Something happened. And that's what broke them up. And so it chronicles their 24 hours together of meeting again. And the whole time you're thinking, "Okay. All right. She's married. He's not. This isn't good." You want to come back to the house? You're thinking, don't do that.
And she is really, really strong. She's like -- he tries to kiss her. And she says no. Blah, blah. And it's really -- it's -- but at the end, because there is something between them, they do -- they do start to fool around. Now, she stops, but they do start to fool around. Who couldn't see that coming?
Now, I'm not saying that every man and woman have that attraction to each other. I mean, ladies, I know --
STU: Obviously. With you, they do.
GLENN: With me, they do. It's not a question.
STU: Your physique. There's so many different reasons.
GLENN: Oh, my gosh. The abs.
STU: The abs -- even if they don't see your face, they're going to see your abs.
GLENN: Seriously, you can see my abs through my shirt. And I don't mean to --
STU: No. You don't mean to do that. It just happens.
GLENN: It's just, they're so big, they're pushing out and kind of stretching the buttons. Anyway --
STU: Yes, it's weird. That's -- I didn't know that was an ab. But it's one ab.
GLENN: I have one ab. I have one big ab.
STU: Yeah, one giant ab. That's interesting.
GLENN: And a bellybutton in the middle of it.
So, you know, not everybody has that. But that is part of life. That there is the attraction.
STU: Of course. Of course.
GLENN: Especially when you're going down the same path. You're on the same kind of career course. You know, et cetera, et cetera. That stuff does happen.
STU: And you should obviously be careful with that.
STU: Especially with a person in that area. But, I mean, like having dinner with some business associate one on one, you know, talking about an important business deal, I mean, that should -- like, I -- just you guys. I mean, you guys are not doing it.
And I think the criticism of this idea is ridiculous. Right? It's a typical stupid, blown-up in the media left-wing story. So I'm not giving it any credence. But if you went out with a female executive for dinner, nothing is going to happen. Because you don't want it to happen. It's about you making the choice and her making the choice, whoever she is.
Right. She's disgusted. So she's out. But even if you wanted to be in, you would still stop yourself because that's what your gig is.
GLENN: Right. Right.
STU: You take your marriage seriously.
GLENN: If somehow or another she fell and her eyes started to see something that looked appetizing in me, she still would be out.
STU: Right. But that's on you.
GLENN: But -- yeah. But here's the thing. The appearance. The appearance.
STU: But that's on me. You're doing it for other eyes.
GLENN: No, it's on society.
STU: Now, you as a celebrity, I understand that. Right? Because people might take pictures of you. Who is this person Glenn Beck is with? I get that at some level. But for the average person, I don't think --
GLENN: No. Wait. I take this back to -- because this is not just about women. I take this back to drinks. I'm an alcoholic. I never go to a cocktail party and ask for a glass of water. I ask for a bottle of water. If they don't have a bottle of water, I won't have water. I don't want a glass with ice in it and clear liquid. I want a bottle of water.
Now, what's the problem with that
STU: There's no problem with that. However, two things. A, you are a celebrity. And if someone saw you with a clear glass of liquid, they might accuse you. And probably would. You would be on Breitbart in about ten minutes.
JEFFY: Oh, in a heartbeat.
GLENN: Tell me the difference between a celebrity -- where someone is going to take a picture of me and put it out there and blah, blah, and me as just an average Joe.
STU: Because nobody cares.
GLENN: Who is -- no, that's not true. You've never been around gossipy people in church. You've never been around gossipy people in the office.
STU: The ramifications are a completely different scale. You know, people --
GLENN: But so is your life on a different scale. It's still your life.
STU: Yes. What was it? A million retweets when someone saw you in a scarf.
GLENN: Okay. Yeah.
STU: Woke Glenn Beck. And all of a sudden, you were like then number one trending thing on Twitter because you wore a stupid scarf one day or an ascot. Whatever the heck it was.
GLENN: It wasn't an ascot.
STU: I only say ascot because I know you hate it.