GLENNApril 06, 2017

How Adam and Eve Became Victims of the Greatest Character Assassination Ever

Three thousand years before The Happiness Movement told us relationships matter, the Bible had already done it with Adam and Eve.

Bruce Feiler, author of the new book The First Love Story: Adam, Eve, and Us, joined Glenn in studio on Thursday, revealing how a visit to the Sistine Chapel with this daughters inspired him.

"They're complaining. My feet hurt. This boring. I'm like, get into the Sistine Chapel, girls. I'm going to blow your mind. They look up, and one of my girls looks at Adam and God --- the fingers, right? Across the sky --- and says, 'That's only men. Where am I in that picture?' And her identical sister looks up and sees . . . under God's arm is a woman," Feiler recalled.

The woman, of course, was Eve.

"That's when I realized . . . this story has been at the heart of every conversation about men, women and sexuality for 3,000 years. And as crazy as it sounds, maybe it has something to teach us," Feiler said.

Enjoy the complimentary clip or read the transcript for details.

GLENN: Hello, America. Welcome. And welcome to Bruce Feiler. How are you, Bruce?

BRUCE: It's great to with you, Glenn. Just happy to be here. And nice to see you looking so great. This wonderful room. So thank you for having me.

GLENN: Thank you.

We were -- the first time we met, you were riddled with cancer. Didn't know if you were going to make it. And you wrote one of the most honest books. It just -- just grabbed me by the heart and the throat. I don't remember the name of it.

BRUCE: The Council of Dads.

GLENN: Council of Dads. And you were putting together a council in case you died. Here are the -- I pick this guy because of these values. I pick this guy because of these values.

BRUCE: Yeah.

GLENN: It was a fascinating study.

First of all, how are you doing?

BRUCE: I'm well. Cancer-free. And -- you know, they say cured. I'm not sure I like that language. But healthy. Walking around.

GLENN: Good. And then you wrote America's Prophet. Which was another book that just riveted me because it really told our American story and put it into real context. Important context. Now you're a big star and you're on PBS. And you write all kinds of, you know, number one best-sellers. And this one is about Adam and Eve.

And I'm fascinated, especially since you're here in week, because I thought a lot about Adam and Eve. And my relationship with my wife. Just last week, I was pondering Adam and Eve for some reason and how much that story has to teach us. And then, you know, I start reading your book, and, you know, you've taken a little pondering. And taken it the full hundred yards.

Let's start with the Sistine Chapel.

BRUCE: So this journey in some ways begins in the Sistine Chapel. My process really begins at my kitchen table. I have a working wife. I have children. As you know, my kids are almost exactly the age of your children.

And we talk a lot about the changing ways that men and women are relating to each other. Right? This moment of sort of tectonic change. And most -- and I write a lot about this in my last two books, New York Times columns. And mostly it's about technology or the latest app. We're going to do it differently. I care a lot about the ancient world and the Bible. Spent a lot of time in the Middle East. And I can't help, but wondering, is there nothing from the past that's not worth preserving?

GLENN: Uh-huh.

BRUCE: We go to the Sistine Chapel, day one. It's a business trip for my wife. And I'm like, okay. I'm going to take my sleep-deprived daughters to the Vatican. It doesn't go well. They're complaining. My feet hurt. This boring.

I'm like, get into the Sistine Chapel, girls. I'm going to blow your mind. They look up, and one of my girls looks at Adam and God, the fingers, right? Across the sky. And says, "That's only men. Where am I in that picture?" And her identical sister looks up and sees -- by the way, my mother is an art teacher. I never noticed this. Under God's arm is a woman.

She says, "Is that Eve?" And that's when I realized -- I had one of those moments that you know -- you've gone on these journeys writing these things out of nowhere. This story has been at the heart of every conversation about men, women, and sexuality for 3,000 years. And as crazy as it sounds, maybe it has something to teach us.

And you mention Walking the Bible earlier in the lead-up to this in the last hour. So I'm an experientialist. I like to go to places. I climb Mount Ararat and cross the Red Sea. But where am I going to go. Right? I mean, you can go to the Garden of Eden in Iraq.

But what happens is I start tugging on strings, Glenn. And this whole opportunity -- every generation we've looked at this story, right? So Michelangelo and John Milton and Ernest Hemingway and Mark Twain and Beyonce and Bob Dylan and Pope Francis -- so I get to go on like this incredible scavenger hunt, all over the world, trying to look at how people have explored this story and try to figure out what lessons it can hold --

GLENN: So let's -- I'm going to have you on for an hour tonight on television. And I invite you to watch. It will be a fascinating -- trust me, Bruce is a fascinating guy. And I want to talk about your journeys and the different things that you found as you went on these journeys and the way that everybody looks at it.

But help me out with, why does it matter? What can it teach us today? Because right now, I think we are living the Kipling poem. And if you don't know it, look it up. The gods of the copybook headings. We are living those times right now, where everything that is known to be true is just thrown out.

BRUCE: Right. Right.

GLENN: And we're just making it up and saying, "This is true." We have no idea if that's true.

So we throw things out like Adam and Eve.

BRUCE: Yeah. So I think -- look, there's -- I was interviewed in TIME magazine this week on the last page. Eight questions with Bruce Feiler, and one of the questions they asked me was coding class or Bible study? Okay? And what I said was, you know, for my daughters, they like math. And they believe like all kids, that every bit of knowledge is behind that screen. If they look long enough into that computer, they're going to know everything. I was like, you know what, it's rare, and it's kind of counterculture and it's almost outrageous today to say, you can learn something from the past.

So I said Bible study. You know, to me, in some ways, this book is about -- the first love story -- is about, let's remember that there's wisdom in the past.

You mentioned this in the lead-up to this conversation, Glenn. Positive psychology. The happiness movement. What has it said to us? Relationships matter, okay?

You and I have been connected. We don't see each other all the time. We are connected. We have that connection. Happiness is other people.

The big threat is loneliness. Young people, middle-aged people, the opioid crisis, suicide crisis -- what's the first thing God says about human beings in the Bible? Upon looking at Adam, it's not right for humans to be alone.

The Bible gets there 3,000 years before social science. And if you're one of those people who thinks, science, who needs the Bible? Here's a beautiful example where that's not true.

And, by the way, if you're the kind of person that says the Bible has everything, not science. Also, not true. You put the two in dialogue with each other.

So I actually think that the story itself is a beautiful story about resilience, forgiveness, togetherness. They make missteps. They have problems. You can call it sin, if you want to. But they stay together, right? They start together. They leave Eden. They stay together. They have two children. One of them murders the other. They reconcile. They come back together. Right? We know. What's the key to a relationship?

You've been married a long time, as I have. Going on 15 years, in my case. Being able to mend a rupture, right? Heal a broken heart. Get over our mistakes. Admit mistakes. That's key.

Boy, do Adam and Eve do that, and, boy, their mistakes were a lot bigger than ours are. Okay?

Also, there's a kind of balance between independence and interdependence. Like, you need to be together, but you also need to be yourself. Right? I think of this Kahlil Gibran quote that you may know, right? Love is the antidote to loneliness, as long as there's aloneness within it. Right? We have to be ourselves, but be connected. And then to me, the number one thing that I've learned -- and as I've been out there in the country and talking about this book and people responding to it, is that love is a story we tell with another person.

It's co-creation through narration. The storyteller in you can really relate to this. You and I are in a relationship. We have to tell a story together. We hit a bump in the road or we have a downturn, we have to write a new chapter in our story together. And that's what I think is powerful about the Adam and Eve story. Is that, think of all the other figures in the Bible, by the way -- Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Solomon, Jesus, Paul, what do they have in common? They're all singles.

Adam and Eve, they're a couple, right? Not Adam. Not Eve. Adam and Eve. They're reminding us that that connection is at the start of the human line. It's very powerful. And this especially matters to women and to the men who along with women are rewriting the story. Because this story was weaponized against women for centuries.

GLENN: Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. Because I think that's an important thing to get to, is at least in my faith, we don't look at Eve as, you know, the evil one.

BRUCE: Right.

GLENN: Or the weak one. So -- but a lot of people do. And they're still carrying around original sin.

I mean, it had to be.

BRUCE: Right.

GLENN: How did you -- what did you find on the weaponization of Eve?

BRUCE: Yeah, so when you go back to the original story that created in Genesis 1, both in God's image. What's true for the man is true for the woman. And, you know, there's this kind of seesawing of power, but what happened was organized religion got a hold of the story. They used it. They essentially weaponized it. I think that Adam and Eve were victims of the greatest character assassination the world has ever known. And then -- but what's happened is. I mean, we now live in a world where women are kind of dominating religion. They're propping it up. They care more. They're involved more. They take the responsibility for passing on values, and they weren't going to do it if this story was going to put them down.

I mean, I don't know if you know this story. As you know, it's in the back of my book. Maybe you knew it before. I didn't.

Elizabeth Cady Stanton, at the birth of women's movement in the 1840s, she's out there with Susan B. Anthony, fighting for property rights and voting rights for women. And they kept hitting a stumble. Why? Because someone would say, the Bible says, you know, Eve was created second. Or the Bible says, you can't vote because Eve was created from Adam's rib.

And she realizes her biggest problem is not politicians -- it's preachers. So if women are going to have equality in this country, she's got to rewrite the Bible. And she does. In 1895, she writes a book called The Woman's Bible. It goes back to the Adam and Eve story, back to Genesis 1. And says, look, our Creator has us formed at the same time. Don't tell me women are not equal. The book is a landmark. It's a best-seller. It's a disaster.

Okay? The organization that she started with Susan B. Anthony gets together and they kick her out, okay?

So the reason that we all know Susan B. Anthony and she's on our coinage is because Elizabeth Cady Stanton, the most famous woman in America at the time, takes on the most famous couple in the world and gets flattened. Absolutely destroyed. It was not for a century until this story was told again because that's how powerful this -- I think of it as the negative branding of Adam and Eve. You have 3,000 years of negative branding.

GLENN: Yeah, yeah.

BRUCE: But the reason this matters is because today, can anybody deny that men and women stand equally before God?

GLENN: No.

BRUCE: No. It was a 30-century battle to reclaim this story. And why does it matter? Because that's what we want to tell our daughters, that you can stand before God, that you deserve to have a loving relationship, that you can overcome it. We owe this to Adam --

STU: It does make me a little nervous about rewriting the Bible though. Doesn't it sound like that --

GLENN: No.

BRUCE: I'm not saying rewriting the Bible. I'm saying reread the story. Go back to the Bible. Go behind.

STU: Right.

BRUCE: Go behind the layers of tradition. This is what -- I mean, the great -- look --

GLENN: Here. Explain this. Because this will really help. By the way, we're talking about the new book The First Love Story: Adam, Eve, and Us. Bruce Feiler is the author.

Explain this. Because is -- just little things like this that you point out in your book, I think are so important. How was Eve made? From a rib, right?

BRUCE: Not correct.

GLENN: No. Not correct. Go ahead.

BRUCE: It's a tsela. Okay? So the Bible, it says, she's created from the tsela. By the way, the ultimate Hollywood meet cute. Okay? So what you have is Adam -- you have the animals are there and Adam. So Adam -- God creates the animals before. And you have this like swipe left, swipe left, swipe left. He doesn't want a hippopotamus. And he looks up. And God says, you know what, it's not right for you to be alone. I'm going to create one of you. So he falls asleep. And he wakes up, and there's a girl, by the way, and he's happy. This is the one. Right? Bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh, he's like ready to go.

(chuckling)

And, by the way, very positive. The two of them are naked and know no shame. Sex positive. They're having a good time. It's almost like the honeymoon moment.

But what is she created from? It's not the rib. It's the tsela in Hebrew. Thirty-eight times that word is used in the Hebrew Bible. It means side or side rib. So they stand side by side.

Why do they pick the rib? Because they said a rib is small and insignificant and given to putrefaction. I'm talking church fathers. I'm talking the rabbis. Because women are small and insignificant and given to putrefaction. I mean, even if you put dirt by a side of Adam, Adam is created by the dirt. Right? Put dirt by the side of the road. It doesn't smell. Put a rib, it starts to stink. That's why women have to wear perfume. I mean, you cannot believe what is there.

STU: Wow.

BRUCE: Even if you know there was patriarchy, you just cannot believe. But when you look at the story, Adam is into her. Even when they're kicked out of Eden, God blesses them. Protects them.

GLENN: Yeah.

BRUCE: Remember, what's the first commandment God says? Be fruitful and multiply.

He needs them to succeed, and they do succeed. It is a success story. Even with the misstep, even with this, we can't let that overshadow that this has got to get the Biblical story.

But to your point, Stu, this is why I want to say -- you know, who has done more to popularize American history than you, Glenn? I'm serious. I know how you responded to America's prophet. We just heard a session on Calvin Coolidge before we came on here. The reason we can have this conversation about religion today in this country is because of the rewriting of religion. Because we are -- our forefathers, our Founding Fathers said there's going to be a expression of church and state. What did that mean?

That means there was not going to be a state-sponsored religion. So all the places where there's state-sponsored religion in the world, except where there are dictators like Iran, but all -- and like in Europe, those religions have all died. Our religion is still here. Why? Because it adapted. Because it was able to meet people where they were and change and say, religion was going to be relevant to their lives.

GLENN: And become enlightened. I mean, so many of these stories were written this way or spun this way for control. And you --

STU: Because you're talking more about religion than -- because I -- there's a separation maybe between religion as it stands, as an organization, people what they've done with these -- with this original truth.

GLENN: Yes.

STU: And the original truth.

BRUCE: Exactly.

GLENN: You study the Torah, which I would love to actually really study like Jewish people do.

Christians are so far behind the eight ball. They have no concept of what the Old Testament really says. You read it outside of its original language, you lose 80 percent of it. You really do. Do you think I'm exaggerating, Bruce?

BRUCE: Well, I think -- look, when you actually go back and read it -- I mean, first of all, where are people today? Religion is very fluid in this country. Half of Americans change faith in the course of their lives, right? Four in ten Americans are in an interfaith marriage.

We live in a time of fluidity, where you kind of make your own faith. It's harder, but ultimately, it can be more fulfilling. You mentioned the Sistine Chapel at the outset of this conversation. What's the center of the Sistine Chapel?

Not God and Adam, okay? That's the fourth panel. The fifth panel, the one in the center, it's not the creation of Adam. It's the creation of Eve. You have Adam lying to the left, God to the right, and Eve occupies the center of the Sistine Chapel. So Michelangelo did more than anybody to elevate Eve and to kind of fight back against this tradition of downplaying Eve.

And when you go back and you look at the story, you see that they're basically over the 30 centuries this story has been told, it was used to downplay women and elevate women. And now men and women, we're all struggling with it, this story is the road map --

GLENN: I cannot wait to have a long conversation with you today. 5 o'clock on TheBlaze TV. Bruce Feiler. The name of the book is The First Love Story: Adam, Eve, and Us.

Really, really worth it. And join us for this conversation because you're always fascinating. And I've got something that I don't know if you know, but you'll be very excited about to -- to learn if you don't. But if you do, we're going to have even a greater conversation.

Bruce Feiler, thanks for being with us. Now, here's our sponsor this half-hour. Delta Defense. The United States Concealed Carry Association is doing something right now. They want to buy ten people the gun of their dreams.

RADIO

“He was one of ours, and he was taken”: Megyn Kelly remembers Charlie Kirk

Glenn Beck and Megyn Kelly remember their friend, TPUSA founder Charlie Kirk, a day after he was assassinated at Utah Valley University. They also discuss the manhunt for the killer.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Yesterday was such a surreal day. I was getting to record my special last night. It was in the afternoon. And I'm sitting here in my studio, and I look at the stairs through this glass door that I have here. And my wife is on the phone, and she's standing in the stairway.

And she has her, her hand gripping the stair rail. And I could see it in her eyes, she was on the phone. And I could see confusion, and I could see trouble.

And in my ear, I'm hearing, five, four, three -- and I said, "Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. I need 30 seconds. I need to talk to my wife."

And I motioned for her to come in. And in a confused and dazed sort of way, she kind of stumbles into the room.

And I said, "What's happening, honey?"

And she said, "It's Cheyenne."

I didn't know what that meant. As a dad, you can imagine. I said, "Is she okay? What -- what's happening?"

She meant, it's Cheyenne on the phone.

Cheyenne had just gotten past the crush of the crowd. She called her mom. She said, "Charlie Kirk's just been shot."

"What?"

She sent me some video, and I knew it was true, but hoped for the best until a few minutes later somebody else sent me video that I hope you did not see, of the bullet striking him.

It must have been like what it was when you first saw the Zapruder film, or if you were standing in the Grassy Knoll. You just knew.

I was on with Megyn Kelly, and we were holding on to the hope that he was somehow or another going to survive that. And Megyn said at one point, I don't know why I'm not announcing what everybody else is announcing. But I just can't.

Megyn joins us now. Hi, Megyn.

MEGYN: Hi, Glenn.

GLENN: What a weird 24 hours it has been. Where are you this morning, in unraveling this knot in your head?

MEGYN: I still don't have my arms around it. I -- I don't feel like I've totally digested the fact that he's gone and the way in which he was taken. You know, Charlie truly was such a larger than life figure. We say that term. But it -- it was true about him. At six-five, he truly seemed larger than most of us. And he was, in his gifts, in his tirelessness. And just knowing exactly where the scene. Every story was.

And his raw courage. So many times. We like to think we're courageous in our commentary. You look at Charlie, and you think, now that's try courage. He -- he would just say it like it was.

The things you might be thinking in your head, but you might not want to say explicitly, he said. And he took a lot of slings and arrows for it and was demonized for being all the terrible things, as opposed to people taking him on and saying, "Does he have a point?"

GLENN: You know, I said earlier today, you don't kill the weak. People don't want to try to heal. They just want to speak in anger at times. And anger is part of the grieving process. And I know I'm angry.

But Charlie would face that anger. And what people think is weakness, by showing love and compassion and listening and just having a decent conversation, that's one of the reasons why he was killed. He wasn't -- he wasn't killed because he was weak. Just like Gandhi wasn't weak. He -- he -- he was killed because he was effective.

Megyn, where do we go from here?

She dropped. Can we get her back on the phone. I got an email from somebody today. This morning.

And I want to share the email. I won't share the name. It's short. But I -- I also think I should share the -- my response. Because I think it's how most of us feel.

It -- it comes from a very well-known conservative leader. Glenn, I am devastated this morning.

I am in deep mourning for Charlie. I am in mourning for his family and our country.

And I don't know how to surface from this. I don't know if I do either.

But I would like to share my thoughts with you, a little later on. Megyn is with me.

Megyn, how do we process this? How do we surface from this?

MEGYN: You know, I think as many lost -- we -- we all have to go through the denial and the bargaining. You know, I'm still refreshing my X account, like hoping somehow there's a reversal. You know, like somehow it was all wrong. Somehow we got it all wrong. You know, sometimes the media gets it wrong. It -- it's absurd. We know what the answer is.

But that's a natural reaction when you had a sudden loss in particular. And anger is completely appropriate now too. It's completely appropriate.

You know, we are going to catch this guy. You know, that FBI presser they just held which is very encouraging.

They -- and two things that happened this morning that are of note, Glenn. First, Steven Crowder who is very solid on his law enforcement leak reporting. He has -- he has a proven track history. He's the one that got the manifesto from the trans shooter in Nashville before anyone else. And that's not all.

He's had other leaks, posting a document saying he received from an ATF source on the investigation.

And that says that they retrieved the gun in the would see, behind the campus. Wrapped in a towel. And that there were three unspent cartridges in the gun. That had transgender and antifascist ideology. Something written on them.

Now, that piece of -- that last piece of it was not confirmed by the FBI at the presser they just held, but every other thing was.

The Crowder report was confirmed in every detail, including naming the kind of gun. He had that right. He had the location right. He had the trail and the tracking of the suspect right.

They did not volunteer the business about what was written on the cartridges, nor did anyone there ask. Because those reporters almost certainly don't follow Steven Crowder because those reporters will probably tell you, he's not to be trusted.

Now, this is an early report. And it could turn out to be wrong. But that's the update as far as we know it.

And the FBI revealing that they have a picture of him, that they did, of course, track him on his way to the shooting spot with surveillance cameras, of course, on these college campuses. We would expect that in dorms or class buildings.

And they appear confident. At least to me. That they've got the guy. And if they've got the weapon, Glenn. Well, they may or may not have fingerprints.

But they almost certainly have DNA. They almost certainly DNA, which I'm sure they're uploading right now, into every database, they can.

You know, within we saw -- they're not supposed to use the public databases. Sorry, private like 23andme or Ancestry.com. Though, in Culverter (phonetic), they did. And that is how they found Culverter. Sometimes they do.

And even just a public database of DNA. Can lead you at least to a family member somewhere near a shooter or suspect. And then it's just a matter of charts and a few hours in getting to that person's relative. So I believe they will find the shooter.

And then we'll know the ideology. And then we'll have a place to put some of the anger. Like, an explanation or something that will help us understand what deranged person. And I don't mean that in a clinical sense. Did this yesterday.

I just feel like, I don't know where to go, until I figure out who did this and why.

GLENN: It was about midnight last night, when I talked to the president.

And he was very clear, that we will find whoever is responsible for this. And justice will be served.

He was extraordinarily confident in that. Which gave me an awful lot of hope.

I don't know if you saw his speech last night, that he gave from the oval.

But I thought -- very powerful. Hit exactly the right tone.

Hit exactly the right tone.

But I think the days of us fooling around and nibbling at the edges. I think those days are over.

MEGYN: I agree. And one of the things that Trump said last night that was so good was, he used the word "terrorism." That's exactly right. You know, that's -- that is how a lot of us are feeling.

And I know you've had the same experience I've had in the last 24 hours, Glenn, where virtually everybody I know in the media business has reached out. I think there are a lot of folks who are in Arlene, in particular, in conservative media, who are very rattled by this because he was one of ours.

And he was taken. You know, he -- obviously, we all have concerns about personal security now with the shooter at loose. You know, at large as well. But I just mean that -- like the betrayal and the need to rise up and protect ours. And the people we value and love.

You know, this is like -- I don't want to say a call to arms. Because I'm not encouraging violence. But, I mean, a unifying call for us to stand shoulder to shoulder and stand up.

GLENN: Yeah. It is absolutely a wake-up call. To anybody who thought, you know, "Oh, it's just going to pass us by," it's not. This is -- this is the call of our age. And how we respond, is going to determine the future of freedom in this country. But I have great confidence that we will respond just as we did after 9/11.

We responded with conviction. We responded with an intelligence sort of way. We overreacted in some ways, that I would like to avoid this time.

But we came together as a nation, and did what had to be done.

For the preservation of our nation.

Now, if we can have the moderation lesson learned this time. Perhaps we will be good. But I think the days of Antifa not feeling any ramifications for their work and others, those days are over! As of yesterday.

Megyn -- I just -- go ahead.

MEGYN: Go ahead, Glenn. I was just going to say. One of the things we did after 9/11 was when the stock market opened two days later. We -- we all bought stocks. We just -- it could have been a 5-dollar to being. But everyone did it to send a message that the financial center would stand. And I think we are going to see a reaction on college campuses when it comes to free speech by conservatives unlike we've ever seen before. In a similar vein.

GLENN: I agree. I'm proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with you, Megyn. And be in the trenches with you all the time. You are a light in a lot of darkness. And I appreciate our years of friendship. And everything that you've done for the country. Thank you!

MEGYN: Likewise, my friend. Thanks for having me.

RADIO

“Our country has changed forever”: Charlie Kirk's BlazeTV friends reflect on his death

BlazeTV hosts Liz Wheeler, Steve Deace, and Allie Beth Stuckey join Glenn Beck to reflect on the assassination of their friend, Charlie Kirk. They also discuss where the conservative movement goes from here and what they believe the impact of his death will be.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I spoke to you yesterday. And we were both pretty raw at the time. How are you doing this morning?

LIZ: I -- I am in a fog of grief, Glenn. I think that a lot of us are -- it still feels very unbelievable what happened to our very dear friend, Charlie Kirk. I feel like I'm floating up outside of my body in a sense, watching all of this unfold.

It's quite something to see the reaction, from the American people over this assassination. I think you're correct when you say that our country has changed forever. I think this is one of the most significant -- not just political assassinations, but political events that we've experienced since the inception of our country.

And I think I've been praying about this, since you and I spoke for so long yesterday.

I've been thinking about this endlessly.

Obviously, on my knees, praying for sweet Erica and Charlie and Erica's two babies. But I think one of the things that's happened in the last 24 hours is people in our country, and I don't even want to say conservatives.

I don't want to say right-wingers because it's not just that, have realized that Charlie is so normal. He's not radical. He's not extreme.

He's not bombastic. He's not edgy. He's just a regular guy. And he's kind. And they killed him because of those beliefs and opinions, those principles and values, Glenn, that we share with him.

And you and I work in this industry, and you've written a lot of books about this political enemy that we face, and we talk about it a lot.

But for the majority of the American people, this is the first time, Glenn, that they're realizing, exactly who this political enemy that we face is.

And it's jarring, and it's gut-wrenching. Because they realize, that just as easily as they assassinated Charlie Kirk and are now dancing on his grave, they want to do that to us, too. (crying)

GLENN: Liz, I -- and I know you do. I have such faith in the Lord. And I know -- I don't know how our lives end.

I don't know how things work out. But I know everything that happens is used for his good. There is no way to thwart God's plan. You can make it -- you can make getting there harder. You can make getting there more painful.

But if we trust in him, great and glorious things are going to happen. Because of this.

LIZ: Charlie once said --

GLENN: Go ahead.

LIZ: Charlie once said, when someone asked him what he wanted to be known for the most -- and he wore a lot of hats, so he could have picked a lot of different accomplishments and identities. And he said he wanted to be known for his faith.

And that's -- it's so powerful. You and I are clinging to God right now. Everyone sitting here with us is clinging to God. I'm literally sitting here, gripping a rosary as we talk. Evil happens in our world, and we all ask that question, "Why? Why does God allow bad things to happen to good and innocent people?"

And, you know, as Father Mike Schmitz reminded us yesterday, "When evil happens, that is not God's perfect will. It is God's permissive will, which is very different."

God allowed Charlie's death to happen, but he did not want it to happen. God values human freedom and can bring about a greater good through these allowed events. But God does not allow evil. He uses it to achieve his higher purpose. When sometimes we don't know what that is, and I -- I'm human. I find it very difficult not to have an immediate answer to, "Okay. What is that higher good?"

But it could be testing faith or demonstrating compassion, teaching people how to uphold his perfect will of good.

And if God were to remove evil from the human existence, he would also be removing our free will to love him and to love others. And he knows that despite the evil that he allows to exist in the world, this greater good can be achieved for eternity, which is where Charlie is now.

And, Glenn, there are a lot of bad people online right now. You know, celebrating Charlie's death and saying how ironic it was, that Charlie was killed by a gun when he was a champion of gun rights. But you want to know what the real irony is? The real irony is that Charlie, at this moment in eternity, I guarantee you, Glenn, is praying for those who did this to him.

GLENN: You know, yesterday I said, "I think I might have done the hardest things I've done. I walked to the front gate, and I lowered my flag to half-mast for a dear friend."

And I think that is going to be easy compared to the forgiveness and the compassion and the restraint that is going to be required from all of us in the coming days. I think that's going to be very difficult. And I don't know how you do it, if you don't have God.

LIZ: I don't. I can't imagine moving forward without God. The Bible says, "He is my rock. He is my refuge."

And I can tell you, that that's the only thing that's helping me swim through this fog.

Charlie was such a good man, Glenn. Such a good man. You know, he once actually hired me -- this was a decade and a half ago. He hired me to work for Turning Point USA, but I wasn't going to -- my start date for starting that job wasn't going to be for, like, three months down the road because that's a new financial cycle. And in the interim after we had signed that contract, but before I had started, I got offered my first television job on OIN. And so I preemptively quit on Charlie.

And I remembered talking to him. And saying, "I know this is such a sucky move for me to preemptively quit on you after we had agreed. But, Charlie, what would you do?"

And he was so gracious, Glenn. He was so generous. He said, "You are -- you're going to kill it. You're going to -- you will use this platform to glorify God and save this country."

And he was always so encouraging. Yesterday, I was looking back at our text thread, because for as busy as this man was, he never neglected talking to his friends.

And during some of the most challenging moments in my public life, who was texting me encouragement, but Charlie Kirk? This -- it is hard to think about how to move forward, but one of the things -- and I know that it's hard to articulate clearly in this moment. But one of the things that I know with crystal clarity at this moment. Is we are not going to be silenced by an enemy who harms us.

We are not going to back down. We are not going to be quiet. We are going to honor Charlie's legacy. We are going to care for and love Charlie's families.

We are going to understand in a clearer sense exactly what we are up against. And it's going to -- with God on our side, it is going to lead us to victory, in a way that our country has not yet experienced. Because we do have this binary choice.

The left wants violence. The left wants Civil War.

The left wants to hurt us and kill us.

But what's going to happen instead, is these people in our country. People who are politically apathetic. Or lukewarm liberal. Or maybe right-wing, but not that active in politics, the same thing is going to happen as a result of Charlie's assassination. That happened after the Black Lives Matter riots.

Or after the COVID vaccine mandates. Where people realized that the other side does not want the best for us.

That the other side, during the Black Lives Matter riots, was willing to falsely accuse us of being racists when that wasn't true. Or during COVID, to tell us that we couldn't go to church and worship God. And we had to take their medical products because they said so, and they didn't care about the harm. Glenn, this is that, times one thousand!

People are now looking out across our country, realizing, that there are subversive forces. And not just a radical lunatic madman incident.

There are radical forces who want to kill us. And the awakening that is going to happen, the eye-opening, you are going to see churches filled with people turning to God. You are going to see politics, a swell of good people, who want to stand for normalcy, and common sense. Two million, 5 million, 10 million Charlie Kirks are going to be minted because of this!

And that's hard to picture in this moment, and there will be hard choices to make because we're angry right now and the left is taunting us, but I have so much faith. I have so much faith in what Charlie did and in the prayers that he is going to be bathing our country in now from eternity.

GLENN: I want to spend a few minutes with another friend of Charlie Kirk's and a good friend of our program and -- and mine. Steve Deace, who follows me on Blaze TV. Steve, I know it has been a hard 24 hours. How are you holding up?

STEVE: I'm pretty devastated. I think I have sobbed more, Glenn, in the last 18 hours than I probably did since the night of my own conversion.

GLENN: Hmm.

STEVE: I'm angry, as I know a lot of people are. And there will be a time, after we -- we need to mourn, first, Glenn. Because otherwise the anger will come out destructively. And it needs to come out, but constructively. And I think we have to mourn first. I think Charlie's legacy as a father, husband, friend, patriot merits that. And I think TP USA and his family need that.

In the not too distant future, we're going to have to get the message that was sent here. He was the best of us. We saw him behind the scenes or in public, genuinely kind, generous.

I -- I -- too many pastors and ministry leaders thought they were too good for Charlie and TP USA. Didn't want to get their hands dirty, and claimed they were being super friendly. And yet, he was the one that sought out the seekers. He went to the places that those nicer than God pastors didn't go to. And he took the bullet that, frankly, that's part of their calling. That they're supposed to take. And I hope in a good way, it shames some of them this morning. That they wake up and they realize, that they have slept on the job. And that's judge somebody like Charlie had to do their job for them.

And as Charlie, you know, named his own organization.

This is a turning point. We're never going back to the way things were before. What we do, next, will decide whether or not they are better. And as one of Charlie's biggest -- biggest supporters and donors texted me this morning, we can only pray that out of one, many will rise up.

GLENN: That's a guarantee. That is an absolute guarantee, that that is going to happen.
You know, when the tyrant is killed, his reign is over. When the martyr is killed, his reign has just begun. And make no mistake, for liberty, Charlie Kirk was a martyr. He was assassinated and martyred yesterday.

And -- and, you know, I -- I -- I -- I think -- I hope, that America -- I wish America could know him the way we knew him.

Because he was a -- he was such a generous man.

STEVE: Uh-huh.

GLENN: It didn't matter who you were, or what rank in life you were, if you needed help, he was there. And --

STEVE: Yep.

GLENN: No matter how busy he was, everything stopped.

And he would help you.

And I saw it in him over and over and over again. And I wish people could see that, because it -- you know, this cartoon character, where they're making him into this bomb thrower, he was anything, but.

I mean, he would have the greatest conversations with people. I mean, I could have done it. I couldn't do it. I couldn't sit through that nonsense. But he could!

And he could logically and peacefully have a great conversation, with people who despised him. And that was so important for the healing of our nation. And I really think that that's one of the reasons that he was killed, not just because he was effective at what he did, but because he was healing us. Something that is really vital to happen. He was healing all of those divides.

STEVE: I couldn't have said it better myself. And if you just look on social media and see so many people in our movement, who have such incredible -- people I don't know, people that don't know me, such incredible testimonies of everything you just said in their interactions with Charlie.

You know, we had a very divisive presidential primary. And to be honest, I didn't always handle it well. One of the first people I heard from when it was over was Charlie. And he texted me, and he said, "Don't give up. We need you."

He didn't have to do that, he won. And he's got the bigger platform. He's got the bigger show. He didn't have to do that. But that's the -- those are the kinds of things that leaders do.

And the void that is left here is massive. And at my lowest point I've ever had in my faith, the Lord said something to me, that will stay with me the rest of my life. And he said, "Steven" -- I'm sorry.

"Steven, I need apostles, not assassins."

And I want to share that with your audience because to win the fight that will come after this, that is what will be required. If you know me, this isn't about being a pansy. The apostles rebuke. But they don't seek revenge. The apostles confront. But they don't condemn. The apostles did something that Hannibal couldn't do.

No other civilization in the fertile crescent could do, they conquered the Roman empire. They set the stage for Western civilization. And they did not do it because they were passive, and they sit on the sidelines, and they were nicer than God. And they wear pleated khakis and Hawaiian shirts year around with sweater vests.

They did it because they got their hands dirty. They did it because they did the kinds of things we saw Charlie do: Build infrastructure.
Direct, lead, guide.

I mean, we would have to have a literal conclave, Glenn. And literally, everyone in our business and movement. And come up with divisions to do all the various things Charlie himself was leading and doing in that organization.

I told Charlie at dinner recently, "It's like, you were like, if Rush Limbaugh and the Heritage Foundation had a baby. This is what you and TP USA are."

And that's what it's going to take to fill that void. But I can't -- I'm sure with the size of your audience, my inbox -- my wife is going through it, as we speak, it is full of people. You were right. I have to get off the sidelines. I have to do something. My buddy Sloan over at TP USA texted me yesterday, he goes, "You know, I can't tell you how many pastors we're hearing from. They thought they were too pious for us. Too good for us.
And now the stakes have been raised. They're getting it."

And I'm just so sorry, that it took two little children and their -- and their mom's family away from them for two -- for more people to get the message. And I want to -- I want to specifically challenge my generation, Gen X, no more grunge. No more, we're too cool for school. No more, "Well, everything sucks. Nothing we can do." No more.

That was a 31-year-old man doing the work as a young father and husband, frankly it wasn't his time to do yet. He has other primary duties that he should have been given the benefit of devoting to as a husband father, but our generation has set on the sidelines for too long. We must lead. It is our children now that are grown, that are leaving the nest. We are the ones with the free time.

We are the ones with the discretionary income. It is our time now to leave, to stop bitching and complaining about boomers. And I say that to me more than anybody else.

And to stop looking around like we're still listening to Pearl Jam and Stone Temple Pilots and Sound Garden, and nothing is going to get better. It is time now to lead. This is our moment.

And we are the ones that are in a place to do this with the positions of our families and with our productivity and prosperity. We have to step to the forefront now.

GLENN: Such great good will come out of this, Allie.

I know this is a tough day for you, and thank you for joining me.

ALLIE: Yeah. God is in the business of redemption. He's in the business of thwarting Satan's schemes. He's in the business of bringing beauty out of the ashes. He's in the business of bringing glory to himself, and bringing people to himself.

And if Charlie had had the choice, if someone had been able to come to him and say, okay. This is what your death will accomplish, it will accomplish more people hearing the gospel, it will accomplish more people waking up, I know if Charlie had had that choice, he would have said yes. He would have said, "Yes, Lord, send me." And not only would he have, but he did.

He went into the lion's den, and now he is with the lion of Judah. Now he is with Jesus. And everyone is going to know who he was and why he lived and the gospel that motivated him. And that is the only thing right now that is giving me any hope or any peace or any comfort.

GLENN: I know that all I could think of yesterday was how glorious the greeting must have been on the other side. You know, good -- "Well, done, good and faithful servant."

ALLIE: Yes, absolutely.

And before any of us heard the news, before his sweet wife Erica got the phone call, he was already hearing those words. And I am so happy for him.

I'm so happy that he is with the saints and the martyrs and the persecuted through which the Church of Christ has been advanced for millennia. I'm so happy for him. I'm so sad for us. I'm so sad for us, having gained an incredible person. But we -- we lost a huge presence.

GLENN: That's how I know when people have faith. They don't weep for the dead.

They weep for the lost to themselves and to the world and to the families that are hurting.

They -- they mourn that loss on themselves. But they -- they -- when they think of the person who has died, they know exactly where they are.

ALLIE: Yeah.

GLENN: And with Charlie, I -- I -- I -- I mean, I knew him when he was 17, and he was a good kid, but what a change happened to him.

He -- he was on fire for Christ, on fire for that.

ALLIE: Yes. Absolutely. He grew into over the past five to ten years, such a theologically deep and apologetically astute man of God, as he became a husband, as he became a father, as he became even more of a warrior for truth, and that is really what -- that's what inspired me.

And when I heard the news yesterday, I thought, my thought was, that's it. I'm done. I'm throwing in the towel.

That is it for me. I'm not -- I'm not willing to do this anymore.

And then later after he died, I went through some of the texts that he had sent me over the years. He was always sending everyone. All of these friends. These very encouraging texts.

And he sent me this article from a liberal outlet, that of course, had taken some jabs at me. That had made me anxious. And he said, "Well done. Keep slugging."

And I just know that if he were here, that's exactly what he would say, not just to me, but to all of us.

He would say, "No. You can't get out now. You got to keep going. You got to keep going." That's exactly how he would feel, and that's exactly what he would tell all of us.

GLENN: I've received so many emails from people who have said, "I don't know how to get back up again."

ALLIE: Yeah.

GLENN: And I don't know what to tell them other than, faith in God. Faith in God.

ALLIE: Uh-huh.

GLENN: I think if our side, if you will -- boy, I hate that in this context, but if -- if we didn't have God, we would be very much like the left right now.

We would be mired in anger and -- and screaming for vengeance and it would be a really ugly place today.

ALLIE: Yes.

GLENN: If -- if we didn't have God.

ALLIE: Yes. And if Jesus wasn't raised from the dead, like if he wasn't resurrected, then we don't have a hope of a resurrection. If he didn't defeat death, then we can't defeat death. If Jesus didn't live forever, then we can't live forever.

And that's exactly what Charlie always preached. What he always posted on X. What he always said, if you were to be able to text him right now. And say, "Look, Charlie. I've got this really tough thing to talk about today. And I don't know how to say it. I don't know what to say. What are your thoughts on it? What should I say?" I know exactly what he would say, the one word he would text back, and that would be, "Jesus. Just tell them that. Just tell them that Jesus is the only way to fulfillment." That is what he would say. People may not realize that. Every time he went on a college campus, he wasn't just talking about capitalism or Donald Trump, and all those things are important. He shared the gospel.

GLENN: No.

ALLIE: He knew that every single person that walked in front of him, was made in the image of God with a soul that was going to live forever, in one of two places. He desperately wanted the people who hated him to go to heaven. And I just pray that I can have that same boldness for the rest of my life.

RADIO

Courage, Faith, and Truth: Glenn Beck's Tribute

Glenn Beck pays tribute to his dear friend Charlie Kirk following his tragic passing. With raw emotion and deep conviction, Glenn reflects on Charlie’s courage, faith, and unwavering commitment to truth in a world that often rewards lies. Drawing parallels to America’s founders, soldiers, and first responders, Glenn reminds us that Charlie’s life and legacy demand an answer to the question: “If not me, then who?” This episode is both a remembrance of Charlie’s extraordinary life and a call to action for all of us to stand firm in faith, defend truth, and carry forward the torch of courage that he so boldly bore.

Watch Glenn Beck's Full 3-Hour Radio Show from September 11, 2025 HERE

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