GLENNApril 13, 2017

Glenn Speaks With Father of Boy Removed From Home by CPS

Camden Maple is a seven-year-old boy described as “energetic and intelligent” by his parents. However, officials at his public school believe Camden's rambunctious behavior makes him mentally unstable and in need of medication for Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD). His parents wholeheartedly disagree, saying he's above grade level and gets easily bored with the school curriculum.

Following a series of disagreements between the parents and school administrators, Camden was forcibly removed from his home by Child Protective Services and local police. He spent nearly a month away from his family before being returned last night. Chris Maple, Camden's father, joined Glenn on radio Thursday to talk about the ordeal he and his family have been through --- and the battle they are still fighting.

Learn more about Camden's situation on the family's Go Fund Me page --- and donate to help ease their legals fees should you feel inclined.

Enjoy the complimentary clip or read the transcript for details.

GLENN: You feel small and insignificant, don't. I've got something that will actually -- you can sink your teeth into and make a big difference.

If you're a parent, so you know, government agencies and school, they know what's best for your children. A lot of parents are under the illusion that they know how to handle their families and make their own decisions. But father doesn't know best anymore. Apparently, the State knows best, at least in Ohio. In Lebanon, Ohio, a government agency ironically named Child Protective Services has removed a 7-year-old boy from his family and his home. The boy's name is Camden Maple.

Camden is what you would expect from a 7-year-old boy. His parents, dad, Christian, stepmom, Katie, describe him as rambunctious, intelligent, and creative. The administrators at Camden school describe him differently. They say he has ADHD and requires a mental health examination.

In February, Camden was called into the principal's office for disrupting class. According to his stepmom, Camden told the school counselor, quote, he was upset because he felt he was bad and wanted to erase himself from the earth.

The counselor asked Camden how he would do that, he said he would stab himself in the eye with a knife, end quote.

Camden's dad, Christian, immediately came to the school. Picked Camden up. Christian and Katie did exactly what I would have done with my kid. I would have sat down with him, had a long discussion about his behavior, evaluated him myself.

If we had any doubt, we would go to a doctor. Camden said, "No, I don't want to hurt myself. I was just upset. And, quite honestly, just trying to get a rise out of the counselor."

They dealt with it as a family. They believed they could handle the situation. And they moved on. But the story was just getting started. The next day, the Maples got a call from the school. The school was following up on their suggestion that Camden be taken to the hospital for a mental health examination.

The Maples were like, "No, we handled it. It's okay. We got it." The matter was closed.

No. The school refused to let go. Thanks, likely to some protocol handed down from some genius progressive bureaucrat that knows better, they had already badgered the Maples for a very long time about getting Camden diagnosed with ADHD and get him on some medication. The parents didn't want to do that.

Now the school wanted to know what was said during the parents' discussion with Camden.

The Maples said, "That's a private family matter. We dealt with it. And that's the end of it."

Well, the idea that a parent knows what's best for their kid does not sit well with people in school now. That's ludicrous.

The Maples say Camden made very good grades, finishes his classwork before most of his classroom, gets bored. And, yes, he does act out. He's bored, just like millions of other 7-year-olds around the country.

Instead of medicating him, what do you say? Why don't we find something else he can do?

The school didn't like the fact that the Maples were ignoring their ADHD and mental health recommendations, and so they called CPS. They accused the family of neglect. Now CPS was involved. And they called the Maples and said they wanted to investigate, visit the home. Christian, the dad said, no, I don't think so. And, by the way, I think I have some Fourth Amendment rights here.

Two weeks later, they received another phone call saying there's an emergency shelter care court hearing that you have to be at. After the hearing, CPS arrived at the home with police officers and took the 7-year-old boy into custody.

The case is still unresolved, and Camden has been separated from his family for well over a month. All of this because mom and dad and the stepmom say we know our son better than the school.

We have Christian and Katie Maple on the phone with us now. Hi, guys. How are you?

VOICE: Hi. We're great.

GLENN: Good. Christian, do I have any part of the story wrong?

CHRISTIAN: No. Not that -- he was actually, on the good note, returned to us last night by the court.

STU: Wow.

GLENN: Oh. By a court?

CHRISTIAN: Yes, the court ordered him to be returned home.

PAT: Wow. That's great.

CHRISTIAN: Yeah, it is. It's really great. But it's still not over. They still want to have him found dependent by the court so they can justify all of their actions that led up to this.

GLENN: Wait. What do you mean by find him dependent? What does that mean?

CHRISTIAN: Well, it's a different category by Ohio statute that -- not meaning neglect or abuse, but a dependent child, they are trying to say who lacks adequate parental care by reason of mental or physical condition of the parents, guardian, or custodian.

GLENN: So tell me -- let's go back.

Tell me when you found out that he said he was going to stab himself with the eye. Tell me, if you don't mind, tell me about that conversation. Tell me what happened.

CHRISTIAN: Well, like I said, the school called me, notified me that he said that. He was -- he never -- like what they are alleging, he never came up with that plan on his own. He was prompted to say that.

GLENN: How do you mean?

CHRISTIAN: Well, the counselor that he saw them at the school was asking him leading questions. She asked him deliberately, well -- when he said that he wanted to erase himself because he was bad. She said, "Well, how would you do that?" Instead of getting to the root issue of why he felt bad, she prompted him to divulge a plan, which he didn't come up with on his own. Like he didn't volunteer that information.

GLENN: Okay. So he didn't -- what you're saying is he didn't walk in and say, "I just want to stab myself in the eye." He said, "I just want to erase myself." And she said, "Well, if you were going to do that, how would you do that?"

"Well, I would stab myself in the eye."

CHRISTIAN: Yes, exactly.

GLENN: So he hadn't made a plan, which is a sign of real suicide. She was asking him of a plan.

CHRISTIAN: Yes, correct.

GLENN: Got it. Got it. Go ahead.

CHRISTIAN: So then the school called me. And to note the seriousness of the situation, before I got off the phone with the school, I was already in my car on the way to the school. I was there within five minutes. And told the school that after they made their recommendations, at first, we were going to come home and have a long conversation, me, my wife, and my son. And then based on that conversation, we would determine if more action was necessary.

Which they completely denied. And they called CPS that same day, before I even had time to respond to the situation, before they knew anything.

PAT: How is it that CPS functions this way, without due process, without having a trial, without -- without giving you a chance?

GLENN: Because somebody has to do something. That's why.

PAT: But it's unconstitutional.

GLENN: No, I know. But somebody's got to do something, Pat.

PAT: You can't just take children out of homes.

GLENN: Somebody's got to do something.

PAT: If there's -- if there's proof of abuse, that may be the case. But there wasn't. There just -- there wasn't abuse, right?

Were they even alleging that you guys were physically or mentally abusing him?

CHRISTIAN: No, but the school had priorly -- before all this instant, they called four times alleging two cases of abuse. And the CPS didn't even investigate because it was unfounded.

PAT: Wow.

GLENN: Wait. Wait. What did they accuse on abuse, and why would they do that?

CHRISTIAN: The school? I'm not exactly sure. I just know that they called twice to report physical abuse by me done to my son.

GLENN: How did you respond to that?

CHRISTIAN: Well, I'm -- obviously I was upset. But I didn't even know about that until after this last actual investigation by CPS was open.

PAT: Wow.

STU: Were you able to track down why they believed that? You know, were there -- he got bruised playing and they thought it was you? Do you have any idea where that came from?

CHRISTIAN: No. I know the school called and alleged that. I don't know why they think that.

GLENN: Okay. And CPS said, we didn't -- we just didn't investigate.

CHRISTIAN: Yeah, they said it was unfounded. And there was no reason even to investigate.

GLENN: Okay. And were they upset at you because you wouldn't put your son on ADD medication? And why wouldn't you put your son on ADD medication?

CHRISTIAN: Yes, the school has been pushing for the ADD medication for a long time.

GLENN: Sure.

CHRISTIAN: It's brought up every time we have a meeting with the school.

GLENN: Sure. Sure.

CHRISTIAN: No, I don't -- because that's going to stifle his creativity. And I don't want to medicate my son because he's an average 7-year-old boy that is creative.

GLENN: Amen.

CHRISTIAN: That's nothing wrong with my son. That's nothing wrong with the curriculum and the school being able to handle a little boy.

GLENN: You're exactly right on that one. I'm so glad to hear you answer that way.

We -- why are we letting the system say I don't need to change the system to adapt to different kids. Instead, I'm going to medicate kids and claim the system is okay.

It is absolute craziness what we allow.

Okay. So -- go ahead.

CHRISTIAN: No, I was just agreeing with you. It completely is.

GLENN: So what do you do for a living?

CHRISTIAN: Well, I was -- until recently, I was a welding supervisor. I've taken a long leave of absence because we just had our sixth child. And right before Christmas. And I am staying home to take care of her and our other younger daughter.

GLENN: And what does this cost you? I mean, how has this affected the family?

CHRISTIAN: Well, emotionally, what it's cost is us I can't even put any kind of amount on it.

GLENN: I don't mean money-wise. What does this cost you? What's the payment been like? I mean, are your friends staying by you? Do people look at you differently, like, oh, my gosh, there goes that family? There's something wrong with them.

CHRISTIAN: No. For the most part, a lot of my friends are behind me. I haven't had any of my friends change any of their attitude because they know me. And they know that this is all ridiculous and completely false.

STU: Christian, have you mixed it up with the school at all with anything else? Are they going to come out and say that you're a troublemaker or one of these parents that are always complaining about everything? Is there any other reason that this would happen?

CHRISTIAN: I did have a dispute with the school. Because like I said, after my baby daughter was born just recently, they -- I tried to get our bus stop moved because I have a kindergartener and I have to physically be out there to pick him up from the bus stop. I tried to have them move it two houses down the street so I could see from our house when the bus was there and go out. Because I did not want to wait out there with my infant.

STU: Right.

CHRISTIAN: And they said absolutely not. And they would not change the stop. So, I mean, we had a disagreement over that. But --

GLENN: What a bad parent. What a bad parent you are. Holy cow. Don't want to be standing out in the freezing cold in Ohio in the winter with your newborn. Holy cow. What will they think of next?

All right. So yesterday, the court ruled in your favor. And he's back home. How is he?

CHRISTIAN: He's really excited and happy to be home.

(chuckling)

PAT: Hmm.

CHRISTIAN: He wasn't sleeping well before. And he slept like a log last night. So -- and he's -- right now, I know he's just really, really happy.

GLENN: Do you -- how are you affording the financial hit with the -- with the attorneys? I got to believe you're taking on the State. That's not cheap. Do you have people volunteering their time? Are you paying for it? How is that working?

CHRISTIAN: Both. But mostly paying for it out of pocket. Just barely making it. I have help from my parents who have loaned us money. But it's -- yes, it's taking its toll.

GLENN: Well, I -- I wish you -- I wish you the best. And we're going to follow this. When is the next court date?

CHRISTIAN: The next court date is the education hearing on the 17th of May.

GLENN: And what's that going to decide?

CHRISTIAN: That is CPS and the prosecutor's office wanting him to be declared dependent so they can justify all their actions from the moment this started.

GLENN: If somebody wants to get a hold of -- there's got to be a great attorney. And I know some attorneys -- who helped the Pelletiers? Remember the story out of Boston?

STU: Justina Pelletier.

GLENN: Who was that? That was a friend of ours. See if we can find out. We might -- we're going to hold on to your number. Is there a public way anybody can get a hold of you?

STU: There's a GoFundMe page, right?

GLENN: There's a GoFundMe page?

CHRISTIAN: Yes.

GLENN: What is it?

CHRISTIAN: I will -- my wife set that up, so I will let her answer to that.

PAT: Okay.

GLENN: All right.

CHRISTIAN: I don't want to misspeak or say something --

GLENN: That's all right. That's all right.

Is it Katie? Is Katie there?

Hi, Katie.

KATIE: Yeah. Hi, the link is just help us get our son home. I'm assuming you can search it.

STU: Yeah. If you actually search for -- as we were talking here, search for GoFundMe and Christian Maple. You'll get a link to it. And we'll also tweet it out from all of our accounts and everything so people can get to it easily. @worldofStu or at Glenn Beck. We'll get it all out there.

GLENN: How are you holding up?

KATIE: All right. It's taken its toll. I've had to take a lot of days off work.

GLENN: What do you do for a living, Katie?

KATIE: I'm a mail carrier.

GLENN: A mail carrier. Six kids. A father who is staying home. Boy, the GoFundMe page might be very well needed. Katie, best of luck.

Christian, thank you very much. And we will continue to watch this.

RADIO

Shocking train video: Passengers wait while woman bleeds out

Surveillance footage of the murder of Ukrainian refugee Iryna Zarutska in Charlotte, NC, reveals that the other passengers on the train took a long time to help her. Glenn, Stu, and Jason debate whether they were right or wrong to do so.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: You know, I'm -- I'm torn on how I feel about the people on the train.

Because my first instinct is, they did nothing! They did nothing! Then my -- well, sit down and, you know -- you know, you're going to be judged. So be careful on judging others.

What would I have done? What would I want my wife to do in that situation?

STU: Yeah. Are those two different questions, by the way.

GLENN: Yeah, they are.

STU: I think they go far apart from each other. What would I want myself to do. I mean, it's tough to put yourself in a situation. It's very easy to watch a video on the internet and talk about your heroism. Everybody can do that very easily on Twitter. And everybody is.

You know, when you're in a vehicle that doesn't have an exit with a guy who just murdered somebody in front of you, and has a dripping blood off of a knife that's standing 10 feet away from you, 15 feet away from you.

There's probably a different standard there, that we should all kind of consider. And maybe give a little grace to what I saw at least was a woman, sitting across the -- the -- the aisle.

I think there is a difference there. But when you talk about that question. Those two questions are definitive.

You know, I know what I would want myself to do. I would hope I would act in a way that didn't completely embarrass myself afterward.

But I also think, when I'm thinking of my wife. My advice to my wife would not be to jump into the middle of that situation at all costs. She might do that anyway. She actually is a heck of a lot stronger than I am.

But she might do it anyway.

GLENN: How pathetic, but how true.

STU: Yes. But that would not be my advice to her.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

STU: Now, maybe once the guy has certainly -- is out of the area. And you don't think the moment you step into that situation. He will turn around and kill you too. Then, of course, obviously. Anything you can do to step in.

Not that there was much anyone on the train could do.

I mean, I don't think there was an outcome change, no matter what anyone on that train did.

Unfortunately.

But would I want her to step in?

Of course. If she felt she was safe, yes.

Think about, you said, your wife. Think about your daughter. Your daughter is on that train, just watching someone else getting murdered like that. Would you advise your daughter to jump into a situation like that?

That girl sitting across the aisle was somebody's daughter. I don't know, man.

JASON: I would. You know, as a dad, would I advise.

Hmm. No.

As a human being, would I hope that my daughter or my wife or that I would get up and at least comfort that woman while she's dying on the floor of a train?

Yeah.

I would hope that my daughter, my son, that I would -- and, you know, I have more confidence in my son or daughter or my wife doing something courageous more than I would.

But, you know, I think I have a more realistic picture of myself than anybody else.

And I'm not sure that -- I'm not sure what I would do in that situation. I know what I would hope I would do. But I also know what I fear I would do. But I would have hoped that I would have gotten up and at least tried to help her. You know, help her up off the floor. At least be there with her, as she's seeing her life, you know, spill out in under a minute.

And that's it other thing we have to keep in mind. This all happened so rapidly.

A minute is -- will seem like a very long period of time in that situation. But it's a very short period of time in real life.

STU: Yeah. You watch the video, Glenn. You know, I don't need the video to -- to change my -- my position on this.

But at his seem like there was a -- someone who did get there, eventually, to help, right? I saw someone seemingly trying to put pressure on her neck.

GLENN: Yeah. And tried to give her CPR.

STU: You know, no hope at that point. How long of a time period would you say that was?

Do you know off the top of your head?

GLENN: I don't know. I don't know. I know that we watched the video that I saw. I haven't seen past 30 seconds after she --

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: -- is down. And, you know, for 30 seconds nothing is happening. You know, that is -- that is not a very long period of time.

STU: Right.

GLENN: In reality.

STU: And especially, I saw the pace he was walking. He certainly can't be -- you know, he may have left the actual train car by 30 seconds to a minute. But he wasn't that far away. Like he was still in visual.

He could still turn around and look and see what's going on at that point. So certainly still a threat is my point. He has not, like, left the area. This is not that type of situation.

You know, I -- look, as you point out, I think if I could be super duper sexist for a moment here, sort of my dividing line might just be men and women.

You know, I don't know if it's that a -- you're not supposed to say that, I suppose these days. But, like, there is a difference there. If I'm a man, you know, I would be -- I would want my son to jump in on that, I suppose. I don't know if he could do anything about it. But you would expect at least a grown man to be able to go in there and do something about it. A woman, you know, I don't know.

Maybe I'm -- I hope --

GLENN: Here's the thing I -- here's the thing that I -- that causes me to say, no. You should have jumped in.

And that is, you know, you've already killed one person on the train. So you've proven that you're a killer. And anybody who would have screamed and got up and was with her, she's dying. She's dying. Get him. Get him.

Then the whole train is responsible for stopping that guy. You know. And if you don't stop him, after he's killed one person, if you're not all as members of that train, if you're not stopping him, you know, the person at the side of that girl would be the least likely to be killed. It would be the ones that are standing you up and trying to stop him from getting back to your daughter or your wife or you.

JASON: There was a -- speaking of men and women and their roles in this. There was a video circling social media yesterday. In Sweden. There was a group of officials up on a stage. And one of the main. I think it was health official woman collapses on stage. Completely passes out.

All the men kind of look away. Or I don't know if they're looking away. Or pretending that they didn't know what was going on. There was another woman standing directly behind the woman passed out.

Immediately springs into action. Jumps on top. Grabs her pant leg. Grabs her shoulder. Spins her over and starts providing care.

What did she have that the other guys did not? Or women?

She was a sheepdog. There is a -- this is my issue. And I completely agree with Stu. I completely agree with you. There's some people that do not respond this way. My issue is the proportion of sheepdogs versus people that don't really know how to act. That is diminishing in western society. And American society.

We see it all the time in these critical actions. I mean, circumstances.

There are men and women, and it's actually a meme. That fantasize about hoards of people coming to attack their home and family. And they sit there and say, I've got it. You guys go. I'm staying behind, while I smoke my cigarette and wait for the hoards to come, because I will sacrifice myself. There are men and women that fantasize of block my highway. Go ahead. Block my highway. I'm going to do something about it. They fantasize about someone holding up -- not a liquor store. A convenience store or something. Because they will step in and do something. My issue now is that proportion of sheepdogs in society is disappearing. Just on statistical fact, there should be one within that train car, and there were none.

STU: Yeah. I mean --

JASON: They did not respond.

STU: We see what happens when they do, with Daniel Penny. Our society tries to vilify them and crush their existence. Now, there weren't that many people on that train. Right?

At least on that car. At least it's limited. I only saw three or four people there, there may have been more. I agree with you, though. Like, you see what happens when we actually do have a really recent example of someone doing exactly what Jason wants and what I would want a guy to do. Especially a marine to step up and stop this from happening. And the man was dragged by our legal system to a position where he nearly had to spend the rest of his life in prison.

I mean, I -- it's insanity. Thankfully, they came to their senses on that one.

GLENN: Well, the difference between that one and this one though is that the guy was threatening. This one, he killed somebody.

STU: Yeah. Right. Well, but -- I think -- but it's the opposite way. The debate with Penny, was should he have recognize that had this person might have just been crazy and not done anything?

Maybe. He hadn't actually acted yet. He was just saying things.

GLENN: Yeah. Well --

STU: He didn't wind up stabbing someone. This is a situation where these people have already seen what this man will do to you, even when you don't do anything to try to stop him. So if this woman, who is, again, looks to be an average American woman.

Across the aisle. Steps in and tries to do something. This guy could easily turn around and just make another pile of dead bodies next to the one that already exists.

And, you know, whether that is an optimal solution for our society, I don't know that that's helpful.

In that situation.

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

Max Lucado on Overcoming Grief in Dark Times | The Glenn Beck Podcast | Ep 266

Disclaimer: This episode was filmed prior to the assassination of Charlie Kirk. But Glenn believes Max's message is needed now more than ever.
The political world is divided, constantly at war with itself. In many ways, our own lives are not much different. Why do we constantly focus on the negative? Why are we in pain? Where is God amid our anxiety and fear? Why can’t we ever seem to change? Pastor Max Lucado has found the solution: Stop thinking like that! It may seem easier said than done, but Max joins Glenn Beck to unpack the three tools he describes in his new book, “Tame Your Thoughts,” that make it easy for us to reset the way we think back to God’s factory settings. In this much-needed conversation, Max and Glenn tackle everything from feeling doubt as a parent to facing unfair hardships to ... UFOs?! Plus, Max shares what he recently got tattooed on his arm.

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

Are Demonic Forces to Blame for Charlie Kirk, Minnesota & Charlotte Killings?

This week has seen some of the most heinous actions in recent memory. Glenn has been discussing the growth of evil in our society, and with the assassination of civil rights leader Charlie Kirk, the recent transgender shooter who took the lives of two children at a Catholic school, and the murder of Ukrainian refugee Iryna Zarutska, how can we make sense of all this evil? On today's Friday Exclusive, Glenn speaks with BlazeTV host of "Strange Encounters" Rick Burgess to discuss the demon-possessed transgender shooter and the horrific assassination of Charlie Kirk. Rick breaks down the reality of demon possession and how individuals wind up possessed. Rick and Glenn also discuss the dangers of the grotesque things we see online and in movies, TV shows, and video games on a daily basis. Rick warns that when we allow our minds to be altered by substances like drugs or alcohol, it opens a door for the enemy to take control. A supernatural war is waging in our society, and it’s a Christian’s job to fight this war. Glenn and Rick remind Christians of what their first citizenship is.

Glenn's Show Prep

Glenn Speaks With Father of Boy Removed From Home by CPS

Shocking train video: Passengers wait while woman bleeds out

Transcript

Max Lucado on Overcoming Grief in Dark Times | The Glenn Beck Podcast | Ep 266

Are Demonic Forces to Blame for Charlie Kirk, Minnesota & Charlotte Killings?

Here’s what we know about the suspected Charlie Kirk assassin