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Guilty: Charles Manson, the Blue Whale 'Game' Inventor and Michelle Carter

In a case that grabbed national headlines, a Massachusetts girl was convicted of involuntary manslaughter in the suicide of her friend. Not only did Michelle Carter encourage Conrad Roy III to kill himself, she listened to him die on the phone without notifying police or anyone that could help him.

The reactions to Carter's conviction have been mixed, with some arguing the verdict introduces a slippery slope that could violate the right to free speech.

RELATED: A Sad and Terrible Verdict in Massachusetts

But is Carter any less complicit than Charles Manson, who never killed anyone himself but ordered his brainwashed followers to carry out gruesome murders, or the Blue Whale "game" inventor, who thinks of his victims as 'biological waste' that happily died?

"Charles Manson didn't kill people. He encouraged others to kill people, and they died. And he is in prison forever, right?" Glenn argued on radio Monday.

It's not that simply that Michelle Carter lacked compassion --- she directly encouraged another human being to kill himself in cold-hearted manner.

Enjoy the complimentary clip or read the transcript for details.

GLENN: Hello, America. Welcome to the Glenn Beck Program. I'm so glad that you're here. Let's start with the -- let's start with the story of a girlfriend who in a case that took in thousands of text messages, Michelle Carter was dating a guy named Conrad. Conrad Roy III. He had -- he was a friend of hers. And I use that in air quotes. And he had said to her for a while, "I'm going to kill myself. I'm going to kill myself. I'm going -- you know what, I'm going to kill myself this Friday."

She encouraged him through text messages, "You should do it."

STU: Initially, currently employed him for months. And told him not to do it. And then eventually started encouraging him to do it.

GLENN: Right. I'm going to tell you a very personal story that I've never told before on the air, that relates to this, in some way. As a story of devil's advocate. But she was just convicted of, what was it? Third degree manslaughter?

STU: I thought it was involuntary manslaughter.

GLENN: Involuntary manslaughter. Because he got out of the truck. He put himself in the garage. Started his truck up. Started breathing in the fumes. He stumbles out of the truck, gets out, texts her.

PAT: Because he got scared, right? He didn't want to.

GLENN: Right. He didn't want to die. And she said, "What is wrong with you? Get back into the truck." And then she never called police. Never alerted. Nothing.

STU: No, in fact, she actually created a charity softball game in his memory, after his death, and, you know -- you know, tried to -- she was communicating with friends saying that he was missing, before he had actually committed suicide. I mean, she -- a very disturbed individual, there's no doubt about that.

GLENN: No, I think she's really disturbed. And she -- she -- actually, he calls her. And he's choking and coughing. And she actually listens to him die over the phone. She does nothing.

So now this case goes to court. And there's a lot of people that say she has no responsibility. Suicide is a personal choice.

And it was. It was his choice to listen to her. It was his choice to do it. She didn't start the car. She didn't do any of that.

However, you're playing on the mind of somebody who is obviously ill. You're -- you are -- don't we have a personal responsibility to help one another, to first do no harm? And that was doing harm.

STU: And it wasn't just that moment. It was weeks and weeks leading up to it. It was things like, you know, sure, yeah, your parents will be upset at first. But they'll get over it. It's okay. She texted him, you're finally going to be happy in heaven. No more pain. It's okay to be scared, and normal. I mean, you're about to die.

GLENN: That is so frightening.

STU: Yeah. She did it over and over and over and over again, over a period of weeks, if not months, if I'm not mistaken. So, I mean, she really went at this.

GLENN: Right. And if you're a friend --

STU: And they're saying boyfriend, really. Boyfriend/girlfriend. At least that was the rumored relationship between them.

GLENN: I mean, that is -- that is sick. This girl has some deep issues.

STU: And we should point out too, that he had already attempted suicide previously. So it wasn't one of these things where, ah, I didn't believe he would even try it. He had already tried it a couple times.

GLENN: She couldn't say that because she was listening to him. She listened to him die. And did nothing.

STU: I didn't -- that's --

GLENN: Yeah. She listened to him die. It was on the phone.

STU: Again, he -- at that point where he gets out of the truck and she talks him back into the truck --

GLENN: It is pretty frightening.

STU: So -- so the argument -- and you might say, that's open and shut. Right?

GLENN: Yeah.

STU: Because I think you -- my mind jumps to people like Charlie Manson who never killed anybody.

GLENN: Yeah.

STU: Charles Manson didn't kill people. He encouraged others to kill people, and they died. And he is in prison forever, right? Because of that.

GLENN: What about the guy -- the blue whale guy.

STU: Sure.

GLENN: If you don't know this, this is terrifying.

STU: Terrifying.

GLENN: This is a guy in Russia who is online, and he -- he says, "I've got the greatest challenge ever. And anybody who takes me up on this challenge, if you follow it all the way through, you will commit suicide. You'll gladly commit suicide. Take up the challenge."

And these kids, most of them 15, 17 years old. They get online, and they take the challenge. And he offers I don't know how many challenges per day, maybe 30 or 45 days. And you have to -- every day, it starts with something small. You have to do his challenge. Well, about halfway through, he says that you have to kill a cat or a dog or a defenseless animal.

Studies have shown that the people who kill the animal finish it. The ones who don't kill the animal don't kill themselves. Okay?

And what he does is -- it's a group process. You get into this game, and then others who are playing the game shame you. This all goes really to the Jonathan Haidt book that I've been reading, The Righteous Mind, on how the mind works. Once you set it into a path, as long as you have people around you -- if you start to go off the path -- as long as your friends are like, "No, no, go. Do it," you pretty much will.

Very few people will actually break from their friends. And so they're -- the -- the peer pressure is great to continue to go and -- and to do these things.

Well, at the end, he keeps you up. And so you're tired. You're disoriented. He makes you get up in the middle of the night and do things. And then he's constantly disrupting your sleep pattern towards the end.

Well, by the end, you're in a weakened state, and the last one is kill yourself. And I don't remember how many -- is it ten, 15 people, that he killed? And he's still doing it by mail. No longer on -- on the internet because he's in jail in Russia. But they say they can't stop him.

Here's the idea: He's in jail. Stop him from writing the letters. You're Russia.

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: I mean, how hard is that?

So when he was in under -- under investigation and on trial, he said, "I'm only thinning the herd. All of these people are too weak to live. So I'm just thinning the herd and getting rid of the weak ones." Well, he's in jail. What did he do wrong?

If she didn't do wrong, he didn't do wrong. If she didn't do wrong, Manson didn't do wrong because he never killed anyone. He just encouraged others to do it.

STU: Yeah, it's weird -- I don't know about you at this point, particularly in our history, I find stories that are not just based on partisan lines a lot more interesting.

GLENN: Yes.

STU: Because you can't tell who really believes the arguments they're making anymore. I mean, that really is the thing.

GLENN: I know.

STU: This is from David French, however, who is from the National Review, conservative. This is what he says: I see two problems with this verdict, one moral, the other legal.

First, Conrad Roy -- the boyfriend -- is responsible for his death.

GLENN: Yes.

STU: To argue Carter committed manslaughter is to diminish Roy's moral agency. It denies his free will. It's wrong to deny compassion to someone who's troubled that they might commit suicide, but we can't move so far in the other direction, that we race to find who is really to blame when a person voluntarily takes their own life.

GLENN: Okay. Hang on just a second. It's not that she didn't offer compassion.

STU: Right. She encouraged it.

GLENN: She encouraged it.

STU: Uh-huh. It's still an act of self-murder. And while Carter undoubtedly played a persuasive role, I can't imagine where we will draw the line. And that is -- I mean, that is -- we will push that.

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

Max Lucado on Overcoming Grief in Dark Times | The Glenn Beck Podcast | Ep 266

Disclaimer: This episode was filmed prior to the assassination of Charlie Kirk. But Glenn believes Max's message is needed now more than ever.
The political world is divided, constantly at war with itself. In many ways, our own lives are not much different. Why do we constantly focus on the negative? Why are we in pain? Where is God amid our anxiety and fear? Why can’t we ever seem to change? Pastor Max Lucado has found the solution: Stop thinking like that! It may seem easier said than done, but Max joins Glenn Beck to unpack the three tools he describes in his new book, “Tame Your Thoughts,” that make it easy for us to reset the way we think back to God’s factory settings. In this much-needed conversation, Max and Glenn tackle everything from feeling doubt as a parent to facing unfair hardships to ... UFOs?! Plus, Max shares what he recently got tattooed on his arm.

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

Are Demonic Forces to Blame for Charlie Kirk, Minnesota & Charlotte Killings?

This week has seen some of the most heinous actions in recent memory. Glenn has been discussing the growth of evil in our society, and with the assassination of civil rights leader Charlie Kirk, the recent transgender shooter who took the lives of two children at a Catholic school, and the murder of Ukrainian refugee Iryna Zarutska, how can we make sense of all this evil? On today's Friday Exclusive, Glenn speaks with BlazeTV host of "Strange Encounters" Rick Burgess to discuss the demon-possessed transgender shooter and the horrific assassination of Charlie Kirk. Rick breaks down the reality of demon possession and how individuals wind up possessed. Rick and Glenn also discuss the dangers of the grotesque things we see online and in movies, TV shows, and video games on a daily basis. Rick warns that when we allow our minds to be altered by substances like drugs or alcohol, it opens a door for the enemy to take control. A supernatural war is waging in our society, and it’s a Christian’s job to fight this war. Glenn and Rick remind Christians of what their first citizenship is.

RADIO

Here’s what we know about the suspected Charlie Kirk assassin

The FBI has arrested a suspect for allegedly assassinating civil rights leader Charlie Kirk. Just The News CEO and editor-in-chief John Solomon joins Glenn Beck to discuss what we know so far about the suspect, his weapon, and his possible motives.

RADIO

“He was one of ours, and he was taken”: Megyn Kelly remembers Charlie Kirk

Glenn Beck and Megyn Kelly remember their friend, TPUSA founder Charlie Kirk, a day after he was assassinated at Utah Valley University. They also discuss the manhunt for the killer.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Yesterday was such a surreal day. I was getting to record my special last night. It was in the afternoon. And I'm sitting here in my studio, and I look at the stairs through this glass door that I have here. And my wife is on the phone, and she's standing in the stairway.

And she has her, her hand gripping the stair rail. And I could see it in her eyes, she was on the phone. And I could see confusion, and I could see trouble.

And in my ear, I'm hearing, five, four, three -- and I said, "Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. I need 30 seconds. I need to talk to my wife."

And I motioned for her to come in. And in a confused and dazed sort of way, she kind of stumbles into the room.

And I said, "What's happening, honey?"

And she said, "It's Cheyenne."

I didn't know what that meant. As a dad, you can imagine. I said, "Is she okay? What -- what's happening?"

She meant, it's Cheyenne on the phone.

Cheyenne had just gotten past the crush of the crowd. She called her mom. She said, "Charlie Kirk's just been shot."

"What?"

She sent me some video, and I knew it was true, but hoped for the best until a few minutes later somebody else sent me video that I hope you did not see, of the bullet striking him.

It must have been like what it was when you first saw the Zapruder film, or if you were standing in the Grassy Knoll. You just knew.

I was on with Megyn Kelly, and we were holding on to the hope that he was somehow or another going to survive that. And Megyn said at one point, I don't know why I'm not announcing what everybody else is announcing. But I just can't.

Megyn joins us now. Hi, Megyn.

MEGYN: Hi, Glenn.

GLENN: What a weird 24 hours it has been. Where are you this morning, in unraveling this knot in your head?

MEGYN: I still don't have my arms around it. I -- I don't feel like I've totally digested the fact that he's gone and the way in which he was taken. You know, Charlie truly was such a larger than life figure. We say that term. But it -- it was true about him. At six-five, he truly seemed larger than most of us. And he was, in his gifts, in his tirelessness. And just knowing exactly where the scene. Every story was.

And his raw courage. So many times. We like to think we're courageous in our commentary. You look at Charlie, and you think, now that's try courage. He -- he would just say it like it was.

The things you might be thinking in your head, but you might not want to say explicitly, he said. And he took a lot of slings and arrows for it and was demonized for being all the terrible things, as opposed to people taking him on and saying, "Does he have a point?"

GLENN: You know, I said earlier today, you don't kill the weak. People don't want to try to heal. They just want to speak in anger at times. And anger is part of the grieving process. And I know I'm angry.

But Charlie would face that anger. And what people think is weakness, by showing love and compassion and listening and just having a decent conversation, that's one of the reasons why he was killed. He wasn't -- he wasn't killed because he was weak. Just like Gandhi wasn't weak. He -- he -- he was killed because he was effective.

Megyn, where do we go from here?

She dropped. Can we get her back on the phone. I got an email from somebody today. This morning.

And I want to share the email. I won't share the name. It's short. But I -- I also think I should share the -- my response. Because I think it's how most of us feel.

It -- it comes from a very well-known conservative leader. Glenn, I am devastated this morning.

I am in deep mourning for Charlie. I am in mourning for his family and our country.

And I don't know how to surface from this. I don't know if I do either.

But I would like to share my thoughts with you, a little later on. Megyn is with me.

Megyn, how do we process this? How do we surface from this?

MEGYN: You know, I think as many lost -- we -- we all have to go through the denial and the bargaining. You know, I'm still refreshing my X account, like hoping somehow there's a reversal. You know, like somehow it was all wrong. Somehow we got it all wrong. You know, sometimes the media gets it wrong. It -- it's absurd. We know what the answer is.

But that's a natural reaction when you had a sudden loss in particular. And anger is completely appropriate now too. It's completely appropriate.

You know, we are going to catch this guy. You know, that FBI presser they just held which is very encouraging.

They -- and two things that happened this morning that are of note, Glenn. First, Steven Crowder who is very solid on his law enforcement leak reporting. He has -- he has a proven track history. He's the one that got the manifesto from the trans shooter in Nashville before anyone else. And that's not all.

He's had other leaks, posting a document saying he received from an ATF source on the investigation.

And that says that they retrieved the gun in the would see, behind the campus. Wrapped in a towel. And that there were three unspent cartridges in the gun. That had transgender and antifascist ideology. Something written on them.

Now, that piece of -- that last piece of it was not confirmed by the FBI at the presser they just held, but every other thing was.

The Crowder report was confirmed in every detail, including naming the kind of gun. He had that right. He had the location right. He had the trail and the tracking of the suspect right.

They did not volunteer the business about what was written on the cartridges, nor did anyone there ask. Because those reporters almost certainly don't follow Steven Crowder because those reporters will probably tell you, he's not to be trusted.

Now, this is an early report. And it could turn out to be wrong. But that's the update as far as we know it.

And the FBI revealing that they have a picture of him, that they did, of course, track him on his way to the shooting spot with surveillance cameras, of course, on these college campuses. We would expect that in dorms or class buildings.

And they appear confident. At least to me. That they've got the guy. And if they've got the weapon, Glenn. Well, they may or may not have fingerprints.

But they almost certainly have DNA. They almost certainly DNA, which I'm sure they're uploading right now, into every database, they can.

You know, within we saw -- they're not supposed to use the public databases. Sorry, private like 23andme or Ancestry.com. Though, in Culverter (phonetic), they did. And that is how they found Culverter. Sometimes they do.

And even just a public database of DNA. Can lead you at least to a family member somewhere near a shooter or suspect. And then it's just a matter of charts and a few hours in getting to that person's relative. So I believe they will find the shooter.

And then we'll know the ideology. And then we'll have a place to put some of the anger. Like, an explanation or something that will help us understand what deranged person. And I don't mean that in a clinical sense. Did this yesterday.

I just feel like, I don't know where to go, until I figure out who did this and why.

GLENN: It was about midnight last night, when I talked to the president.

And he was very clear, that we will find whoever is responsible for this. And justice will be served.

He was extraordinarily confident in that. Which gave me an awful lot of hope.

I don't know if you saw his speech last night, that he gave from the oval.

But I thought -- very powerful. Hit exactly the right tone.

Hit exactly the right tone.

But I think the days of us fooling around and nibbling at the edges. I think those days are over.

MEGYN: I agree. And one of the things that Trump said last night that was so good was, he used the word "terrorism." That's exactly right. You know, that's -- that is how a lot of us are feeling.

And I know you've had the same experience I've had in the last 24 hours, Glenn, where virtually everybody I know in the media business has reached out. I think there are a lot of folks who are in Arlene, in particular, in conservative media, who are very rattled by this because he was one of ours.

And he was taken. You know, he -- obviously, we all have concerns about personal security now with the shooter at loose. You know, at large as well. But I just mean that -- like the betrayal and the need to rise up and protect ours. And the people we value and love.

You know, this is like -- I don't want to say a call to arms. Because I'm not encouraging violence. But, I mean, a unifying call for us to stand shoulder to shoulder and stand up.

GLENN: Yeah. It is absolutely a wake-up call. To anybody who thought, you know, "Oh, it's just going to pass us by," it's not. This is -- this is the call of our age. And how we respond, is going to determine the future of freedom in this country. But I have great confidence that we will respond just as we did after 9/11.

We responded with conviction. We responded with an intelligence sort of way. We overreacted in some ways, that I would like to avoid this time.

But we came together as a nation, and did what had to be done.

For the preservation of our nation.

Now, if we can have the moderation lesson learned this time. Perhaps we will be good. But I think the days of Antifa not feeling any ramifications for their work and others, those days are over! As of yesterday.

Megyn -- I just -- go ahead.

MEGYN: Go ahead, Glenn. I was just going to say. One of the things we did after 9/11 was when the stock market opened two days later. We -- we all bought stocks. We just -- it could have been a 5-dollar to being. But everyone did it to send a message that the financial center would stand. And I think we are going to see a reaction on college campuses when it comes to free speech by conservatives unlike we've ever seen before. In a similar vein.

GLENN: I agree. I'm proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with you, Megyn. And be in the trenches with you all the time. You are a light in a lot of darkness. And I appreciate our years of friendship. And everything that you've done for the country. Thank you!

MEGYN: Likewise, my friend. Thanks for having me.