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How Innovators, Athletes and Warriors Hijack Their Senses for Off-The-Chart Productivity

It’s the biggest revolution you’ve never heard of, and it’s hiding in plain sight. Over the past decade, Silicon Valley executives like Eric Schmidt and Elon Musk, Special Operators like the Navy SEALs and the Green Berets, and maverick scientists like Sasha Shulgin and Amy Cuddy have turned everything we thought we knew about high performance upside down. Instead of grit, better habits, or 10,000 hours, these trailblazers have found a surprising short cut. They're harnessing rare and controversial states of consciousness to solve critical challenges and outperform the competition.

In his new book Stealing Fire: How Silicon Valley, the Navy SEALs, and Maverick Scientists Are Revolutionizing the Way We Live and Work, co-author Steven Kotler details this place called "the flow" where creativity and performance are heightened. Getting in the flow isn't all sunshine and lollipops, however. Kotler joined Glenn on radio to discuss the phenomenon.

"If I understand you right, what you're saying is, whether it's drugs, whether it's a spiritual experience, no matter how you get there, there's this place called the flow, and it makes you so much more focused and productive," Glenn said.

Kotler explained.

"What we know about flow is that . . . in these states, all of the brain's kind of information processing machinery gets amplified, right? We take in more information per second. We process it more quickly. We're able to, like, link ideas together. So creativity goes through the roof, motivation goes through the roof, cooperation, collaboration --- all the so-called twenty-first century skills, the skills that we need so badly right now," Kotler said.

This state of consciousness floods the brain with dopamine, the chemical that underlies all addictive behavior --- like gambling, sex, shopping or cocaine addictions.

Glenn experienced his own version of it for several years from a "deep spiritual connection of profound gratitude and service" called "helper's flow."

According to Kotler, there are ten individual triggers that could drive someone into the flow, as well as group or shared triggers.

"There's a shared collective version of a flow state, known as group flow. It's what happens if you've ever been in a great brainstorming session or if you watched a band come together and the music just starts to soar, or for that matter, if you saw the Super Bowl last year . . . what the Patriots did in the fourth quarter. Everybody comes together, and football looks more like ballet. That's group flow. It's what the SEALs rely on so heavily too," Kotler said.

Based on brain research and four years of investigation, Stealing Fire explains how the driving forces of psychology, neurobiology, technology and pharmacology are fueling a trillion dollar underground economy.

Enjoy the complimentary clip or read the transcript for details.

GLENN: Steve, welcome to the program. Glad you're here.

I have to be honest with you, I've only read, you know, 50 pages of the book. And I'm not sure I -- I understand. Let me just ask you one question before we get into it, to make sure I do understand what the point is here. Is James Valentine -- he was not taking any drugs. He was just -- he had a different kind of experience. But the same effect.

STEVEN: Yeah.

GLENN: Okay. So I just wanted to know that. Now you can start at the beginning because now I think I got it.

STEVEN: Absolutely. Let me just put it in historical context for you because it's the -- thank you for having me, by the way.

GLENN: You bet.

STEVEN: But it's the easiest way to frame this up.

Back at the turn of the century, 1902, William James, who is a Harvard philosopher and psychologist and has used sort -- he's sort of the godfather of western philosophy -- he makes the observation that a whole slew of experiences, what all the experiences that are sort of found north of happy -- so these are states of awe. Certain kinds of mystical experiences, like trance states or states produced by prayer or yoga or meditation, or even in some cases, psychedelic states or flow states, which is what we study at the Flow Juneau Project, myself and Jamie Weil, who I wrote the book with. Which are those states of -- kind of optimal states of consciousness where we feel are best, where we perform our best.

You notice that all these states were really, really similar. They produce very similar psychological changes in us. They seem to heal anxiety, heal trauma, and they seem to lift us up to incredible heights. And they produce a very similar kind of physical experiences in us.

And we sort of turned our back on it. Like we weren't really interested in all states of consciousness at that point. Freud came along. He said, hey, pathological problems are much more interesting. Let's try to fix people.

And that's what psychology did, for about a hundred years, until the late '90s, when somebody -- hey, you know, there's this whole upper realm of experiences we haven't looked at. And now we have.

And as it turns out, using, you know, high-powered brain imaging technology, James was right. There's very, very little difference in the brain of a skier in the zone, moving down a mountain base, or say, as you pointed out, in the beginning, a billionaire microdosing with psychedelics or somebody meditating. Very similar things happen in the brain. They produce very similar feelings. And, thus, they have similar benefits.

GLENN: Okay. So let's get into this. Because I -- I've read 55 pages this morning, just trying to get ready for this. And I wish I would have picked the book up earlier. Because I think --

STEVEN: I got to tell you, by the way, 55 pages, you're doing well compared to a lot of people I talk to.

GLENN: Well, I'm embarrassed --

STEVEN: I appreciate that.

GLENN: I'm embarrassed that I've only read 55.

But the idea here -- I'm fascinated by it because I believe -- as long as we're not talking about a drug-only state, in the flow, I really truly believe that from 2007 to about 2012, I experienced that. And it -- just being in the flow. And it was a very different feeling and real high, high clarity.

Mine was a -- mine was a -- not drug induced. But I could explain it to you. And I think it's the way John Valentine --

STEVEN: James Valentine.

GLENN: Or, James Valentine would explain it as well. So I think there is something here to people --

STEVEN: Do I mind if I ask you a question?

GLENN: Yeah, go ahead.

STEVEN: What triggered that experience in you? At the front end of it, what was going on in your life that brought that on?

GLENN: It was a -- a -- a deep spiritual connection of profound gratitude and service.

STEVEN: So, interestingly, you had an experience, and it's very long-lasting. It's known as helper's high. It was discovered by Allan Luks, founder of Big Brothers Big Sisters back in the '90s. It's essentially a flow state. Right? And let's just define "flow" for your listeners who don't know what exactly it is. Flow is a fancy term for being in the zone, being unconscious, if you play a lot of basketball. Those moments of wrapped attention and total absorption, where you get so focused on what you're doing, everything else vanishes. So your sense of self goes away. Time passes strangely. It slows down, or it will speed up.

GLENN: It's what, like, SEALs and people describe when they're at their height of, you know, going in to kill Osama bin Laden. Time slows down. Everything else disappears.

STEVEN: Yes. Now, that's a very acute -- when time slows down, it has to be very acute. There's a lot of additional brain processes being involved a little bit

GLENN: Right.

STEVEN: But essentially, helper's high is a flow state produced by altruism. You can even get a little taste for it -- if you've ever donated to Kiva or an online charity or anything like that, you'll get a little flush of that kind of feel-good feeling on the back end.

GLENN: Yes.

STEVEN: You just got it for a very long time. My wife and I were on a dog sanctuary and -- so we do hospice care and special needs care, and we live in a very poor community. And we work here intentionally and live here intentionally to do this work. And she runs on helper's high.

GLENN: So the difference between that and just the dopamine that you get from -- you know, the (sound effect) from your Facebook or your email.

STEVEN: Yeah, exactly.

GLENN: What is what is the difference?

STEVEN: So the differences are, as we move into flow, a couple of things happen: First of all, you get -- so most of what -- what they call 21st century normal, you and I, where our brains are right now, there's a lot of activity kind of behind our forehead, in what's known as the prefrontal cortex, which is your executive function, your attention, your sense of morality, your sense of will, language, function, all that stuff. That's going crazy.

And we -- most of us live with like the steady drip, drip of stress hormones like cortisol and norepinephrine. That's what psychologists talk about as 21st century normal, essentially.

As you move into all of these states -- this happens in meditation. It happens in conflative states like yoga. It happens in flow states, whether they're triggered by action/adventure sports or by music. James Valentine's experience was he got into these deep trances playing music.

You can -- chess is -- Josh Waitzkin talks a lot about chess and flow. Very common in a lot of things that require intense focus in the present moment or altruism, in your case.

And so what happens is you move into those states -- and in the prefrontal cortex, it gets really quiet. It dies down.

That's why your sense of self disappears. Right? The inner critic -- that nagging, always on, defeatist voice in your head goes quiet in those states because the inner critic is basically calculated in your prefrontal cortex. And if that part of the brain starts to shut down, we can't perform the calculations. So your inner critic goes away. Time passes, strangely. Because time is calculated all over the prefrontal cortex. And what goes away, we can't separate past, present, from future. It all blends together into what researchers call the "deep now."

And to your question, the stress hormones, norepinephrine and cortisol, they get flushed out of our system. And they get replaced by not just dopamine. Dopamine itself is a very powerful, you know, feel-good neural chemical with a lot of performance-enhancing benefit. But you also get endorphins and serotonin and monoamine and oxytocin. It's the cocktail that is so popular.

And what that cocktail does -- you talked about the clarity, besides -- you know, it makes us feel selfless. It makes us feel timeless. It also gives -- it massively -- it massively boosts motivation.

So McKinsey, for example, did a ten-year study of top executives in flow. And they found that top executives were 500 percent more productive in flow. That's a huge boost. And it's because all of these same neural chemicals, they're feel-good drugs. Some of the most addictive pleasure chemicals the brain can produce -- flow is the only time we get all at once. And so it produced this huge spike in motivation. A positive spike, right? Like a positive addiction.

GLENN: And so your -- your job now is to try to figure out how to trip us into this flow?

STEVEN: Yeah. We -- so over the past -- you know, flow science has -- stretches back 150 years. But recently, the past ten years, we've been able to look under the hood for the first time. Where are these experiences coming from? And we've been able to work backwards. And we now know that flow states have triggers, preconditions that lead to more flow.

There are ten individual triggers, what you or I could have used on our own to drive ourselves into flow. And then there's a shared collective version of a flow state, known as group flow. It's what happens if you've ever been in a great brainstorming session or if you watched a band come together and the music just starts to soar, or for that matter, if you saw the Super Bowl last year. Saw fourth quarter comeback, right? The spectacular -- what the Patriots did in the fourth quarter. Everybody comes together, and football looks more like ballet. That's group flow.

It's what the SEALs rely on so heavily too. It's a team coming together, being able to kind of behave like a collective organism.

GLENN: Okay. When we come back, I want to have you go through some of those ten things that can trip us into it. The name of the book is Stealing Fire: How Silicon Valley, Navy SEALs, and Maverick Scientists Are Revolutionizing the Way We Work and the Way We Live.

[break]

GLENN: I'm fascinated by this. Steven Kotler. The name of the book is called Stealing Fire.

And, Steven, if I understand you right, what you're saying is, whether it's drugs, whether it's a spiritual experience, no matter how you get there, there's this place called the flow, and it makes you so much more focused and productive. And however you get there, you're trying to figure out how to trip yourself into it. Correct?

STEVEN: Yeah.

GLENN: Okay.

STEVEN: What we know about flow is that -- you know, in these states, all of the brain's kind of information processing machinery gets amplified. Right? We take in more information per second. We process it more quickly. We're able to like link ideas together. Find -- so creativity goes through the roof. Motivation goes through the roof. Cooperation, collaboration, all the so-called 21st Century skills, the skills that we need so badly right now.

GLENN: Okay. So give me -- we have about five minutes. Give me the high points on how to trip yourself into it.

STEVEN: So, you know, some really kind of basic stuff is pretty simple. First thing you need to know is that flow shows up when all of our attention is focused on the right here, right now.

So at a very practical level, we go into companies, one of the first things we tell them is if -- you can't hang a sign that says, bleep off, I'm flowing. You are in trouble. Because flow requires 90- to 120-minute periods of concentration to really bring it out. Which is, by the way, one of the reasons Montessori education is so effective. It's built around to 90 to 120 minutes of uninterrupted concentration periods, right? They use this. And it's why Montessori kids, you know, see so much flow and end up testing better than so many other kids on any test you throw at them. Very simple thing.

Want to get it -- take it one notch up. We'll go into a trigger that's often called the golden rule of flow, known as the challenge skills balance. The idea here is really simple: All of flow's triggers are things that help drive attention to the present moment. Right?

So we pay the most attention to the task at hand, when the challenge of the task slightly exceeds our skill set. So you want to stretch, but not snap. And this is tricky. Because if you're sort of shy or timid, maybe a bit of an underachiever, whatever, the sweet spot is outside of your comfort zone. You have to be pushing yourself outside your standard comfort zone.

For a really super high productive, top performers, type A types, the problem here is they blow past the sweet spot. They will take on challenges that are so much bigger than they need to be.

And so one of the things we always tell people is in this stuff -- especially if you're type A, you got to go slow to go fast. There's a kind of neuro biologically sweet spot as to how we pay attention. And when you hit it, it really drives focus.

GLENN: Okay. Go ahead.

STEVEN: I mean, just a couple places to start.

GLENN: All right. So do you do this with -- are you guys doing this work with companies coming in and saying --

STEVEN: Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, last week, we spent a day with all the top senior management, top executives at Ameritrade. And the bigger point is this, we've learned this over the years in our digitally delivered classes -- and, for example, we did a six-week training at Google a couple years ago. It was a joint learning exercise, where we were trying some of this stuff out. And we train them up in kind of four high performance basics like sleep hygiene. Get enough sleep at night kind of stuff. Real basic. And then four flow triggers. How do you deploy these in your life?

And after a six-week period -- and they did about an hour of homework a day, spread out throughout the day, but it took some work. But not a ton. They saw a 35 to 80 percent increase in flow.

Now, within context, same McKinsey article I talked about earlier, the same study, found that a 15 percent increase in workplace flow will double overall workplace productivity. So what we've learned is, not only does flow have triggers, the stuff is really easy to teach. It's not -- and it's funny because everybody -- everybody is basically -- we're hard-wired the same. We're wired for high performance. So once you start understanding how this stuff works, you can really step on the gas.

PAT: So you don't have to do this through drugs, through chemical means, right?

STEVEN: No. No.

PAT: In fact --

STEVEN: There are a lot -- you have to understand that what you're talking about is pharmacology today, which has a long history of strong reactions. Lots of politics. Lots of mess. Goes back a long time.

Tomorrow, you're going to be talking about a EEG headset that zaps your brain in a particular way. We're already getting there. Right? We have EEG headsets that can dial up a lot of kind of the underlying neural biology of flow. And they're getting better. Virtual reality is better. Is really good at this as well. So like you have feelings of, hey, I don't want to take a pharmacological route. Totally fine. Right? Absolutely valid. You know what I mean? Not for everybody.

But, you know, it's an interesting bias because, you know, our idea that we -- it's internal and comes from us. It's pure and whole and sacred. And, you know, drugs are -- drugs are a cheater's way there, or they're bad or whatever. Fine. Okay. That's where we are now.

But tomorrow, it's going to be an app on your phone. That's where it starts to get really interesting.

PAT: Wow.

GLENN: Well, I want to talk to you about that a little bit. Because you say this can be really, really good or highly destructive.

STEVEN: Well, so earlier I mentioned that you get all five of these really potent neural chemicals. They're very addictive. All -- I mean, there's no external drugs, cocaine, for example, most addictive drug on earth. All it does is flood the brain with dopamine, right? Dopamine is the drug that makes -- that underlies all addictive behavior.

GLENN: Yes, yes, yes.

STEVEN: Gambling addiction, sex addiction, shopping addiction. You know, cocaine addiction. It doesn't matter. So you're getting the into the same neuro chemistry. So these states can be very, very addictive.

What Happens if Israel SACRIFICES a Red Heifer?
RADIO

What Happens if Israel SACRIFICES a Red Heifer?

Rumors are spreading that Israelis are planning to sacrifice a red heifer around Passover. But will the sacrifice actually be made, what would it mean for Jews and Christians, and what would happen next? Shoreshim Ministries founder Bill Cloud joins Glenn to explain: Will it usher in the End Times? Will the Temple be rebuilt? What does a red heifer even symbolize? What happened the last time Israel found red heifers? Have they built an altar? Should Christians see this as a sign that Christ is returning soon? And should Christians even be focused on this at all?

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: It is. And we will tell you about that coming up. We have Bill Cloud on back on. He is the founder of Jacob's Tent Fellowship. Also, Shoreshim Ministries.

And he's probably -- he's taught Biblical prophecy for a long time. And what I like about him is, he's not like, we're all going to die, it's coming tomorrow. He takes a very tempered look at everything and just can give you the facts that we know. But we don't know if those are the facts that, you know, God was telling us to look for.

Is that a good explanation? Bill.

BILL: Well, I do try to be tempered.

I mean, I try to keep all of my theology, in this solar system.

GLENN: Yeah.

BILL: So, you know, I try to be that way.

GLENN: Okay. And you said yesterday, that sometimes, you know, what we think is going -- we're looking for, is not necessarily going to happen, the way we think it's going to happen.

Can you give me an example of that?

BILL: Well, yeah. In Matthew chapter 17, Josiah goes up to the top of the Mount with Peter, James, and John.

He's transfigured. His face is shining like a light.

The disciples see this. They're coming back down the mountain, and they're puzzled. Because they asked him, hey, we follow that the prophecy teachers of the day told us that Elijah could come first.

But you're already here. And you're obviously the messiah. So how come Elijah didn't come first. And he said, well, Elijah did. But you missed it.

Because you were looking for that Elijah. But you missed the whole message that John the Baptist was giving, the spirit and power of Elijah.

So that's the very quick example of, we can be looking at this. It has to look like this. It has to be this size. And everything else.

And the whole time, God is doing exactly what was said, just not the way we were looking for.

So as I said yesterday. It's very important, as we read these professes.

We interpret them. We think they will happen this way. Based on what we see going on in the world today.

But I sometimes -- and maybe even a lot of times. It doesn't happen the way we think. It just happens exactly the way God said. And it's usually after it happened, we can look and say, yeah. Okay. I see it now.

So that's an example. And that is very important, I believe. In going forward. And, you know, when we see all these things happening in the world.

GLENN: So I often have thought, if you were alive during Hitler's reign, especially if you had a front row seat to it, you had to have thought that Jesus was coming soon. But there were a lot of things that had not been accomplished. For instance, the reestablishment of Israel.

And then the gathering of Israel.

And so, you know, if you knew your Scriptures. You would go, well, no. I don't think so.

But it could happen quickly.

But now, a lot of really big things have happened.

What's -- what big prophecies have been fulfilled, and what is still out there, that we should be watching out for?

VOICE: Well, you mentioned the reestablishment of the nation of Israel in '48.

The capturing of the old city, and the reeducation of Jerusalem in '67. Which at that point, gave Jews access to the Temple Mount.

Although, temporarily. So the -- it's a big one. And I might say, that, you is still ongoing. And it has not come to its ultimate fruition.

GLENN: And what does that mean?

What does that mean? The regathering of Israel?

What does that mean exactly.

BILL: Well, to make a long story short. Because of transgression. Because of rebellion. Because of all these different sins, Israel was exiled. And to this day, a lot of Israel is still scattered through the nations. So there are these multiple prophecies about how until the last, they have gathered all of Israel into the land. To the point, this is the way Jeremiah puts it. That they will never talk about the exodus out of I didn't want. But they will talk about the exodus from all these different nations, and because we aren't talking in those terms just yet, that tells me it hasn't come to its ultimate fulfillment. But because we will talk about, in just a couple of days how God brought his people out of Egypt.

GLENN: Right.

BILL: So it's an ongoing thing. But that's a really big one. But, no, there are other things that are happening right now.

I think the Gazan War is something that is very significant. Because there are prophecies about Gaza about the land of the Philistines.

I think this war has the potential. I'm not going to make the prediction. But it has the potential to lead into other things. The attack the other night.

Iran was said to be, at least, you know, affiliated with, you know, what's going on with Gaza, and these kinds of things.

So there are things going on right now, that do set stage. Potentially, for some things to happen.

And that makes our day a little different right now.

GLENN: What -- what -- that you're saying, that Gaza could turn into.

What are you referring to?

BILL: Well, again, there are different prophecies about Gaza, how it's going to be. You know, basically. But here's the thing that jumps out at me. It's the fact that Hamas has played such a big role.

The Bible names Hamas by name. There are prophecies against Edom and Esau, and it says because of the Hamas, that you committed against your brother Jacob, which is translated violence, I'm going to deal with you.

And Obadiah, it says, because you've committed Hamas against your brother Jacob, I am going to deal with you.

In Genesis, before the days of Noah, before the flood, it says that Hamas filled the earth. So I do not believe that that is just some cosmic. That's God way before any of this, you know, we were even thought of.

God is already telling us things in the beginning, to be on the lookout.

So the fact that Hamas has been the instigator, primary instigator, as it relates to what's going on in the Gaza War right now. To me, something is very, very important. And that means, it has the potential to expand into other things. Other prophecies. They talk about the construction of Damascus. And it leading all the way up to what a lot of people are looking for in the War of Gog and Magog. So all of that is on the table, as a possibility.

Is it going to happen right now? Again, I don't know. There are things that could happen that could lead to these more dramatic events. So, anyway, that's --

GLENN: Well, the --

BILL: That's what I mean by the Gazan thing.

GLENN: Well, the destruction of Syria, Damascus could happen overnight. The return of the Jews to Israel, you would think that would be almost impossible. You know, one of the things I've been thinking lately. You know, disconnected from end time stuff.

If I were a Jew today. And I saw the whole world starting to heat up like this. There would come a time, when I would be like, you know, I'm going to Israel.

I will at least stand with my own people.

Because it's the only place, where I may not be persecuted, you know, without a shot of standing up.

BILL: Well, and I think that -- this is going to sound maybe a little bizarre.

But God's way, is to put pressure on people.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

BILL: To move them into a place that they want them to be. I mean, that's just the plain and simple fact.

GLENN: Yes.

BILL: So I don't discount that at all.

I think these things begin to unfold. It will become increasingly unpopular in the world. To be Jewish.

To be associated with Israel. To stand with Israel.

But at the same time, you know, God uses that pressure to kind of put people in the position, he wants them to be. To kind of put people in the position -- to kind of force his will. And it's always going to be for the best interest of his people.

But it doesn't feel very good at the time when you're being subjected to all that pressure.

GLENN: Do Iran and Russia and their alliance play a role in prophecy?

BILL: Well, a lot of people think so. I'm one of those. And based, primarily, on reading Ezekiel 38 and 9. This is -- I mentioned briefly a moment ago, the war of Gog and Magog. Right?

And so if you think -- if you read the prophecy, we don't have time to do that today. But if you think that Russia is the land of Magog, then I would say yes.

In fact, that prophecy talks about how this chief prince. This ruler, over the land of Magog will come from the far north. Well, if you start in Israel and go north.

If you go to the far north, you're in Russia.

So it seems that Russia would be involved. And, of course, the old Soviet Union was never a friend to Israel.

It was a line of Israel's enemies. If I were Netanyahu, I wouldn't trust Putin as long as I can spit.

So Russia is not a good guy in this regard. And then when you read that prophecy, Ezekiel 38:9, you'll see among the confederates, the first one that is mentioned is Persia, which of course is the ancient name for Iran.

Just kind of a sidebar here. Interesting to me, anyway. The name Iran, or the modern name Iran, is derived from the word Aryan.

Maybe it -- maybe that should tell you something.

GLENN: Yeah. I've always thought so.

Before we get into the Ark of the Covenant. Which I just find fascinating.

You said that we need to watch out for Esau.

Who is Esau in the Bible? And in modern times?

BILL: Well, Esau, of course, was the older brother of Jacob. He's all red and hairy, and he's impulsive. And he's a hunter, and all these kinds of things.

And he has no regard for the birthright. He has no regard for the covenant that God made with Abraham. Jacob is the more temperate one. He values these things that are eternal. So when Jacob obtained the blessing of his father Isaac, Esau vowed to kill him.

So as you read ahead in the prophecy, you will see, even though the man, Esau died, God still addresses Esau, also known as Edom, you know, centuries later, because of your hatred towards your brother, because of the hamas toward your brother, I am going to -- I am going to deal with you in the end.

And so to me, today, Esau is epitomized in those people, like Hamas. Like Hezbollah. They have this ancient hatred. And that's the way it's termed in Ezekiel chapter five.

And I would even include, Glenn, within that mix, all these people that are getting on the Golden Gate Bridge. And stopping traffic.

And doing all these protests and standing outside the New York University, last night.

Chanting death to America. In Dearborn, Michigan. I would include that, in the people that are identified as Esau from a Biblical point of view, not so much because they're descended from that.

GLENN: No. Because of their hatred. Unreasonable hatred.

BILL: Correct.

GLENN: Okay. When we come back, let me take a one-minute break, and then we will talk about the rebuilding of the temple and the Ark of the Covenant. Some say they know exactly where it is. And it's closer to the Temple Mount, than you might think.

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(music)

GLENN: Okay. So does the dome of the rock have to be destroyed for the third temple?

BILL: That's what most people think when they consider, you know, a building of the temple. Although, not everybody thinks that that is necessary.


And because there is some dispute about where the temple actually sat, where the Holy of Holies was.

There's a lot of religious -- where the dome of the rock is.

There was a gentleman, excuse me, back in the late '80s, early '90s.

A professor at the University. He felt that the holy of holies was actually a little north of the dome of the rock, at a place called the dome of the tablets of the spirits.

So most people believe that the dome of the rock has to go. There are some who believe that it's possible, that the temple could have -- it's not just north.

And technically speaking, could it be on the same platform. There's even a passage in revelation chapter seven. Where John is told to measure the temple of God. To leave the court outside. Leave that out.

The Gentiles. So some people have thought, well, maybe that is suggesting that there is going to be a temple, alongside either the dome of the rock.

Or the mosque. And, you know, I don't know. I find that problematic for a lot of reasons.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. Kind of like the burning of the red heifer right there, you know, in Arab territory.

It might be a problem with that.

BILL: That's right.

GLENN: So, you know, the Ark of the Covenant is where they kept the Ten Commandments. And I know it was real. I know it existed. I never, ever thought, we're going to find that.

We're going to find that? Is that important for the rebuilding of the temple?

BILL: Well, technically speaking. The second temple.

This is the one that was built after the Babylonian captivity. And then Herod expanded it. That, we did not have the Ark of the Covenant in it. And it was still considered the house of God.

So there's historical precedent for rebuilding the temple and not having the ark. However, there's prophecies that talk about, how the glory of the latter house is going to be greater than the first one. Referring to Solomon, which is referring to the Ark of the Covenant.

So technically, they could rebuild it without the ark.

However, there have been those in Israel, since the reunification of Jerusalem, who not only do they want to build a temple of the Temple Mount, but they want to find the Ark of the Covenant.

And there are a lot of traditions, as to what happened to the Ark of the Covenant.

Some say, that it went to Ethiopia, which I don't believe.

Some people say, that Jeremiah hid it in Mount Nebo which is Jordan. Some people believe it's outside the old city, buried. And then there are quite a number of people. And particularly, people close to the idea of rebuilding the temple.

Who believe it's buried somewhere, and underneath the Temple Mount.

That's not really a big secret honestly. It's all oar the internet.

GLENN: No. But I find, if you know something about the Temple Mount.

We'll come back to this in just a second.

Because there's somebody a labyrinth of temples underneath, et cetera, et cetera. But I can't see how those have not been, you know, exhaustively gone through by those of the Muslim religion.

We'll give more of those in just a second. Stand by.
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STU: You can now save 30 bucks off your Blaze TV subscription. Go to BlazeTV.com/Glenn. Need to use the promo code secure 2024. Thirty bucks off Blaze TV.
(OUT AT 10:29 AM)

GLENN: Welcome to the Glenn Beck Program.

We're glad you're here.

We're talking to bill cloud, as passover comes up on Monday.

We're talking about Biblical prophecies. Because there's a lot of stuff happening in the world right now.

Where a lot of people are going, you know. I think eye read about this someplace before.

But. No man knows when.

I mean, it could be a thousand years from now.

But it will happen at some point.

And we need to be aware. And I want to make this really clear. And, Bill, I think you'll back me up on this.

The Lord was not. He didn't look at Scriptures and was like, man. It doesn't have a snappy ending.

I want part two of this. So let me leave them on a scary cliffhanger.

The Book of Revelation was written, not to scare us.

But to say, look, all of these things will come to pass.

And it's almost. I think it's a blessing, that he says, and, you know, at this point, the seven-year clock starts to -- to tick off.

And he's telling us, this -- I'm not -- don't be shocked by these things.

They're going to be bad. And they're going to seem like they're never-ending.

But they're not.

And I'm telling you these things, so you have faith. And can make it through those times. Is that how you read it?

BILL: Absolutely. When you go to the Book of Revelation, by the way. And you look at the heading.

It says, the revelation of Jesus Christ. It does not say the revelation of the Antichrist or the tribulation or bold judgments and vile judges. It's about the Messiah. In fact, it says, in that book, that the essence of prophecy is the testimony of the messiah. The spirit of prophecy is about the messiah.

So everything about all this bad stuff, ultimately, it will point us to the messiah. Because all the bad stuff is just the Satan, and those who practice wickedness. Trying to stop the messiah from returning and sitting upon his throne in Jerusalem. To rule and reign.

So, yeah, it doesn't end on a bad note. It ends on what mankind, those who love and holiness had been longing for, since Adam was exiled from the garden.

A return, to be with God and God be in our midst. So that's the greatest thing that we could ever hope for. And all these things that we would see, is pointing us to that. So it's an excellent observation on your part.

It tells us these things. In fact, when he sat down on the Mount of Olives with his disciples. This is a -- by the way, Mount of Olives is where they will burn that red heifer when they do it. But anyway, he sits down on the Mount of Olives. And he says, tell me all these things, as you said, so you know this will happen.

But don't be dismayed. Don't fall in despair. I'm telling you these things, so that you will not be deceived.

I'm telling you these things, in advance, you won't be impulsive, and running after things that you shouldn't be running after. So when these things happen, keep your focus.

You know, kind of stay the course on what you know is true. So absolutely, I agree with you.

GLENN: Growing lawlessness is the sign of the last days. And we're seeing lawlessness, like I've never seen before.

Now, this has happened over and over again. Where societies have been lawless, and they collapse.

But lawlessness in the last days, it gives birth to the lawless one. Which is the Antichrist. Right?

BILL: Right. Exactly. That's exactly right. You know, a lot of people have thought, that the Antichrist have come to power. And he will create this lawless environment.

I believe a lawless environment gives birth to the lawless one. The final prediction of the Antichrist.

GLENN: To me, that -- that is -- makes sense.

We're -- you know, it was about 2000, oh, six. I was talking to Condoleezza Rice. And she used very specific language. She was on my show. And we were talking about, you know, what things look like now.

And, you know, what's coming our way. And she said, these things are birth pangs. Of the things to come.

And I thought, that was -- you know, rather unusual language for somebody to use.

Because it's very Scriptural.

BILL: Yeah. That's Biblical language for sure.

GLENN: Yeah, it is. And we are giving birth to something. I don't know if it's the -- you know, the Antichrist. Or the end times. Or just really, really bad times.

But there -- everything that we're seeing, these are like contractions and birth pangs. When things happen, you're like, ow. That hurt. And they're becoming faster and faster and closer and closer to one another.

We are giving birth to something.

BILL: Yeah. Well, in Hebrews, it's the birth pangs of the Messiah.

The Messiah is -- and his rule and reign, over the earth, that's what is -- that's what's being birthed. That's what's coming to fruition.

It's just in the process, the earth and everybody in it, has to go through these birth pangs.

Paul talks about how the earth is groaning and producing this travail and birth pangs. So that the sons of God will be revealed. That goes hand-in-glove with the messiah and his return. That's what's being birthed.

But just like in any birth, something that is wonderful. There's all this yuckiness, and pain and suffering.

Unfortunately, that pressure has to be there, to get those who are listening to the voice of the Lord, in the place that he wants them to be. And that is, not giving in to the lawlessness. Not giving in to the just crazy stuff, that society is pushing down our throats.

But to stay true, based on what Christians say.

So that's what's being birthed, as far as I'm concerned.

GLENN: Let me go back to the Ark of the Covenant. It seems like an Indiana Jones movie. It doesn't seem rule in some ways.

I know it is. Or I know it was.

But then it just kind of disappeared.

Nobody really knows what happened to it. People have been looking for it, forever.

And people are saying, it will be revealed. And some people believe it's under the Temple Mount.

I've stood, at the place where they say, right behind these stones, is where they think the holy of holies is.

Which is where they think the Ark of the Covenant is.

And it's a labyrinth of passageways and everything, underneath there. At least it used to be. But why -- why would it -- how could it possibly be still there, when, you know, the Muslims have been digging underneath the Temple Mount for a long time. And taking truckloads, of -- of dirt and antiquities out and just dumping them.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, how could it still be there?

You know, I don't know that I have the answer to that question. I will just say, my faith would say, if God wanted it to be there, it will still be there. He has a way of watching over things.

GLENN: Right.

But is it prophesied that it will be found and come back, or is this just something that some people think?

BILL: Well, the last time you see -- or you see a mention of the Ark of the Covenant. Is when Josiah tells the priest to take the Ark of the Covenant and put it in the house that Solomon had prepared for it. And, by the way, there are people who read into that. Well, the Ark of the Covenant was already in the temple. What is Josiah saying? Some people say, well, he was hiding it, because he knew the Babylonians were coming. And that's where some people think, well, it's hidden in somewhere around Jerusalem.

Most people close to the temple, are -- our rebuilt temple. Motivation. Think it's under the Temple Mount.

But, you know, it disappears from the record, is the point.

And the next time you see anything mentioned. It's in the Book of Revelation, actually.

After all this other stuff is over with.

All the bad stuff.

So, yeah. It is a big mystery.

I will tell you a quick story. Ninety-two.
I and another gentleman, along with an Israeli friend, we went to the office of Rabbi Yehuda Getz, who at that time was over all of the holy places in Jerusalem.

And to make a long story short, Rabbi Getz did not believe that the Ark of the Covenant was in Ethiopia. He did not believe it was there.

He felt very confident, he knew where the Ark of the Covenant was. And he did not tell us. But our Israeli friend, later told us, that in the early '80s, along with a lot of the men who were participants, in the relitigation of Jerusalem. '67. Actually, when these excavations begun, they were looking for the Ark of the Covenant. Because they believed that it was under the temple mount somewhere. I've even heard reports, that it was supposedly -- saw the place where it was kept. Now, I don't know that to be a fact.

So there are people who do believe it still exists. There are people that are in Jerusalem, who would love for that to be revealed. And I would suggest that if that were -- if you think the red of her will cause --

GLENN: Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. I mean, I can't imagine how that could be revealed, and the whole world not taking real significant note.

Whether you believe that the -- what's ever in it. Or that the remnants of the Ten Commandments. Or not.

It doesn't matter.

For the Ark of the Covenant to be revealed and come back.

That would say a lot, about Israel. About Jerusalem. About the times we live in. I mean, pretty much everything. Pretty much everything.

GLENN: Well, it still exists. And this is just my opinion. That's all it is, just an opinion.

I tend to believe that if it does exist, and it's going to be revealed.

Then it probably will coincide with the Messianic age, with the Messiah's return.

And I think that would probably be more likely. But that doesn't mean that there aren't people who would be very, very excited to be -- to have an opportunity. To find it, look for it. And if they could, bring it out.

And that would cause World War III, most likely.

GLENN: It probably would.

It's weird, Bill. When you're over there. You don't understand highway this little patch of land has caused so much turmoil really, in the world.

Why everybody seems to be -- you know, centered on that patch of land. Because it's not very big.

And it's almost like it's a pulse, you can feel it.

That Temple Mount. There's something about that area.

It's God's throne. And you can feel it.

It's amazing. It's amazing.

BILL: Exactly. Exactly. That, what you just said, is prophetic. Prophecy said, he will make Jerusalem burden themselves. And even more -- more so, the Temple Mount. Because that is where God's presence kissed the earth.

And the Ark of the Covenant was basically God's throne on earth.

So, yeah. It's a very contested piece of property, and it will be at the heart of conflict. Yes.

GLENN: Bill Cloud, thank you so much.

If you would like to follow him, you can follow him on his website at BillCloud.org. That's BillCloud.org.

The Right WON’T WIN Unless it Does THIS
RADIO

The Right WON’T WIN Unless it Does THIS

Recently, “America’s Cultural Revolution” author Christopher Rufo warned that “the Right faces an inflection point.” Instead of focusing on actually changing policies and culture, he argued, some on the Right have leaned into “conspiracy theories that lead nowhere.” Some of these, especially related to Israel, have caused massive debates. But how should we approach this divide? And what’s causing it? Christopher and Glenn make the case that the answer is self-discipline, NOT censorship, and providing better content than just “cheap attention” tweets. In order to win against the progressive elites, conservatives must get their own house in order first.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Last week, I saw Christopher Rufo, who I greatly admire.

Write and talk about something we don't need to talk about. But in that, he said, the right faces an reflection point. There are serious people, who are trying to advance a serious political movement, with a vision for governing.

There are also unserious people, who are willing to sell conspiracy. Leading us nowhere.

I care about politics, because I believe we have substantive work to do for the country. This requires putting together a coalition that is capable of taking responsibility. The choice is ours.

I responded to that. And people -- and I'm hoping Christopher didn't. But people thought that I was coming after Christopher and I, but I wasn't.

I was really frustrated with, he's right. But what does a serious option look like?

I said, I have great respect for Christopher Rufo. He has done more to expose the rot than many of us combined. But, Chris, the only option that I see that is viable is a return to the Constitution and Bill of Rights. All of our problems stem from the violation of these documents. Congress doesn't care.

Nor does it even attempt to do its job. Every administration is worse than the last. At this point, it is all powerful.

Supreme Court has trouble defining a woman. May God help us, with them defining any of the Amendments. Our Justice Department, Intel, and every agency has been co-opted by radicals. Those who believe in a constitutional republic are not the radicals. There is another option.

Return to e pluribus unum. The Bill of Rights and Constitution.

So I wanted to get Christopher on. Because I heard from so many people, that we were warring. And, Christopher, I'm sorry, if I've let anybody, to think I would stand against you.

Because I have some admiration for you.

CHRIS: Of course not. I didn't take any offense to it.

I found we were actually in agreement. I'm glad we have a chance to talk in greater depth.

I think you translation canned the problem there perfectly. But the question I'm raising is, how do we get there?

What kind of coalition do we need?

What kind of intellectual leadership, do we need? And then what kind of political leadership do we need?

And what I noticed on the right, especially on the horrific I can attacks against Jews in Israel, is that there's been a fragmentation.

And there's people chasing conspiracy theories. There's a rise. Kind of resurge answer, on the outer fringes of anti-Semitism on the right.

And then there are people elevating their profiles in media. On conspiracy theories, that lead nowhere, on kind of tabloid-style dossett that doesn't offer any kind of concrete possibility.

And so I think we have a media problem. And we have, in addition, a leadership problem.

GLENN: When you say a media problem, you mean the right media?

CHRIS: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I just -- I think if you look at kind of serious conservative media figures. And, of course, I would include you in this. You're always doing the reporting, the conversations, trying to guide people, towards something, that that they can do. Some legislation that politicians can pass. Some policy that we can adopt. Some counterculture that we can build. But I think given the dynamics of online media advertising, audience building, and then just the dynamics of kind of general tech and media trends.

Some people are being, you know, kind of generously rewarded with clicks and attention. Who don't actually offer anything substantive. And I think it gets some of our audience. And some of our listeners. In this outrage cycle.

Where they're outraged for outrage sake.

They're not being directed for guiding that outrage towards something constructive. And I've seen it. It can be really be damaging to people. And it's certainly damaging to a political movement.

And I don't think it's a failure of the audience. I think it's actually a failure of us, in the media, in positions of authority, in positions of leadership. You always have to guide people towards something that can make their lives better, and if we're not doing that, we're taking advantage, and we have to stop.

GLENN: So I completely agree with you.

So what is -- because we agree with the solution. And this is my point, back to you, was, I am very afraid of serious options. Because there is another split in the right. That is -- is willing to look at -- at extra constitutional solutions. And that's really dangerous. And starting to say, well, this Constitution, maybe it's old and dusty. Like the left has been saying.

No, no, no, no. No. All of our problems are solved, by two things.

One, the people living a better life. And I don't mean like, you're making more money. I mean, you're more decent, humble, and just better person. Plus, the rule of law. Being restored, as written.

So where do you see anybody coming up and really promoting that, Chris?

CHRIS: Well, I think that's exactly what we need to do. And I've been very vocal. There's a lot of frustration on the right. There's a lot of anxiety. But all of our problems can be solved through kind of normal -- Democratic -- peaceful Democratic means. We still have a great system.

But our system is atrophying because we're not using that system. And soiled point to the leadership of someone whom I admire very much. Governor Ron DeSantis in Florida. He had the same legislature, that Jeb Bush did. He had the same state Constitution.

And yet, he's using power effectively within the law, to make Florida a better state for people to live, work, and raise families.

And so I think we have to really discipline our own coalition, we have to stop engaging in these kind of fantasies, of extra judicial or extra parliamentary politics. And we have to say, if we are going to be the conservative, political party, the conservative political movement, we have to respect the documents that just be smarter. Be more persistent. Be more diligent.

In actually practicing politics. And so there are models out there, that are successful. And I think, we have another model of the kind of more, say, radical, extra constitutional model. That is the dismal failure. It's always been a dismal failure. When the left did it in the late 1960s and early 1970s, with those radical movements, the American people rejected them. If the right does it at any time, now or in the future, the people, the citizens will reject them.

It's a dead end. And we need media figures, that are kind of telling people to straighten out. To have self-discipline. To remind people of the constitutional principles that we're fighting for. And then to lay out a plausible plan.

Because people get desperate, when they think we have no other options. So it's our responsibility to show them the concrete options, not just spin out into conspiracy land.

GLENN: So, Chris, I do not -- I do not -- I don't listen to anybody else. I don't watch anybody else.

I read. But I have tried to cut my reading back to about four hours a day.

Because it's just poison. It's just all poison. But it's part of my job.

I have to read and be informed. So I don't -- but I don't hear things. You -- I am very concerned about just somebody doing something stupid. I'm also very concerned about this very, very small group of people.

That are Christian nationalists. But it's very small.

I am not concerned about the -- the average listener, if you will.


CHRIS: Correct.

GLENN: You seem to be -- I don't know if your concern is greater than mine.

And I'm pretty concerned about things. I want to -- I want to judge why -- what is it that you're feeling or is bringing this out, in such a passionate way? I want to make sure I'm not missing it.

CHRIS: Yeah. Well, I think we are approaching a critical period, in our country's history.

And, you know, I think the genesis of my comments. Was this -- you know, blowup between Candace Owens. And the Daily Wire. You know, Ben Shapiro's publication.

And, you know, I think that -- I tried to be disciplined. In my criticisms. People within our coalition. Within our movement.

But, you know, Candice had been arguing that there are secret gangs of Jews. Murdering people in Hollywood. She had rationalized Kanye West's, you know, kind of deranged antisemitic outbursts. She had been pushing stories about how the president of France's wife is actually a man. And these are stories that drive clicks. They drive controversy.

But they actually don't create anything substantive. And unfortunately, there is a kind of rising group of commentators and media figures. That have figured out, that the way to get cheap attention. Is to put forward stories like these.

And I just think that, we have to be, of course, kind of tolerant of a range of opinion.

But there also is an out of bound or a limit, that any political movement needs to maintain its own coherence and its own discipline.

GLENN: And you're not talking about censorship. You're just talking about self-control.

CHRIS: That's right. It's first self-discipline, and then it's also giving people a better option.

Of course, I don't think any of these opinions should be censored. They shouldn't be stricken from the record. The government shouldn't have any sway whatsoever.

But I think it's up to us, to have that discerning judgment. And to also show people, why this is such a limitation.

Why -- why it actually is not helpful.

And to get people out of this outrage cycle, that depletes them, and into a cycle of participation and politics in a real sense.

You know, politics is not, you know, tweeting conspiracy theories. Politics is actually winning elections. Changing the law. And managing institutions.

And so we needed a movement that is capable of doing that. And if we're not a movement that is capable of doing that, we don't deserve power.

We don't deserve to win, and we don't deserve to have our ideas shaping the law.

GLENN: I am -- we're talking to Christopher Rufo.

I am gravely concerned, that any time between now and really probably January 20th of next year, is the most dangerous place our republic may have ever been.

And that's including in the Civil War. We are -- we are at the edge of losing everything. Somebody does something stupid. We go to war. The economy collapses.

Whatever it is. There is -- there is a real shot, that we lose our freedom. It's happening all -- I mean, look what's happening in Brazil. This is -- this is happening all over the West, right now.

And I know, I have self-edited more than I've ever edited. Because I want to be very careful with my word.

Because I am so concerned, about the cries of dis and miss and malinformation. That will be wrongly pointed in people's direction by the state.

But it's important now, that we are speaking clearly. And as -- and as accurately, as we possibly can.

Do you feel the same way?

CHRIS: I feel the same way, and I'm very concerned about it. And I think this really dovetails nicely with my argument. If we don't have the self-discipline and if we engage in these kind of wild lines of media narratives.

It will provide, you know -- it's fake. But it will provide a kind of rationalization or justification for continued censorship. If the government and organized left, can point to a verifiably false conspiracy theories. They can then use it as justification for censorship.

Obviously, I don't support that. I think you should -- I think everyone has the right to say whatever they want. True, false, good or bad.

But, you know, we have to be realistic about it. And this is a major threat, of getting deplatformed. Of getting debanked.

GLENN: Yep.

CHRIS: Of getting kind of de-anonymized, exposed. And so we have to -- we unfortunately. Look, the New York Times can publish conspiracy theories for three years about Russiagate, they will be awarded the Pulitzer Prize, and they'll pay no price when it turns out to be all a pack of lies.

We don't have that luxury. I wish we did. But we have to take the reality for what it is.

We have to be more disciplined. We have to have higher standards. And we have to fight much smarter than our opponents.

That said, the good news, is that when we fight smart, like DeSantis has done in Florida.

There is a wide open vista of possibility for us.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

CHRIS: And we can truly create, you know, what I think of as a counter hegemony. That will create a bulwark or a defense against all of the awful things that the organized left is doing.

GLENN: Christopher Rufo, thank you so much. Thank you for being a friend. Friend of the show. And friend of freedom. Appreciate it.

How Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion WILL Create the Next Public Health Crisis | Glenn TV | Ep 348
SPECIALS

How Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion WILL Create the Next Public Health Crisis | Glenn TV | Ep 348

Everything is a “public health crisis” these days. Racism. Climate change. The lack of access to “gender-affirming care.” But there’s one ACTUAL public health crisis the far Left has created: diversity, equity, and inclusion. The future of YOUR health care is at stake as this dangerous reform movement is being forced upon American medical schools, all of the professional medical organizations, and hospitals, with total endorsement from Biden’s White House. Glenn Beck exposes how this academic cancer is changing medical school admissions and graduates, what caused this movement to accelerate, the real-world life-and-death consequences of this insanity for patients, and how any resistance to this movement brings swift crackdown from the Thought Police. Glenn is joined by Dr. Stanley Goldfarb, the founder of “Do No Harm,” a network of doctors, nurses, medical students, and patients working to get identity politics out of medicine. Dr. Goldfarb taught medicine at the University of Pennsylvania and published more than a hundred articles in the New England Journal of Medicine and other top medical journals. He debunks the racist claim that “black patients need black doctors” and sounds the alarm on deadly efforts to push unqualified doctors on patients.

EXCLUSIVE: Will RFK, Jr. Change Glenn's Mind?
THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

EXCLUSIVE: Will RFK, Jr. Change Glenn's Mind?

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. once called Glenn a traitor because he thought Glenn's opinions on climate change were "dangerous" and should be shut down. But now, he's one of the biggest CRITICS of censorship. So, what changed? Glenn decided to sit down with the independent presidential candidate to find out.