‘Everyone Is Watching Each Other’: Author Explains North Korea’s Isolation From the World

North Korea is famously isolated from the rest of the world, with the government blocking internet access and controlling everything from food to hairstyles to social groups. It’s almost impossible for two North Koreans to conspire together because people are watching and listening all the time for anything that goes against the government.

“This did not happen overnight,” author Michael Malice said of North Korea’s isolation. “This was a 70-year methodical process.”

Malice, author of “Dear Reader: The Unauthorized Autobiography of Kim Jong Il,” explained that the Kim family has been working to build up barriers between North Korea and the rest of the world for decades.

North Korean society is divided into government-designated groups, and once a week, North Koreans talk about what they did “wrong” that week in front of their peers. This level of scrutiny makes it nearly impossible for North Koreans to speak against Kim Jong Un and his regime even in casual conversation.

“Everyone is watching each other all the time and reporting on each other all the time,” Malice said.

GLENN: Michael Malice is a guy who went behind the Iron Curtain. It's a very closed country. And he left there and he wrote a book called, Dear Reader: The Unauthorized Biography of Kim Jong-il.

Michael, welcome to the program. How are you, sir?

MICHAEL: Oh, it's a great honor, Glenn.

GLENN: Thank you.

First of all, tell me, what got you to go to North Korea? I mean, you stalking Dennis Rodman, or?

MICHAEL: Well, here's the thing and something you kind of touched upon: It was bothering me a lot how so much of the press about North Korea is complete misinformation. And I said, "I'm going to do something about this once and for all." Now, I was born in the Soviet Union. I'm Jewish. These were two chances for my family to have been sent to a concentration camp. And there's concentration camps in North Korea right now. You know, people ask, how did we let the Holocaust happen? They have the camps right now. You can see the camps on Google Earth. And yet so many of these news reports want to look at North Korea and be like, "Aren't these people all silly?" It's like, yeah, these are 25 million hostages. If the government had a gun to your head and the heads of your children, you would be doing pretty silly things too.

So that's why I wrote my book Dear Readers, so that people could understand exactly what's going on there. Because it's not at all how it's portrayed in the press.

GLENN: So I would like to get into the concentration camps with you. Because people don't understand that it's not your sentence. It's they sentence you and your family for three generations. I mean, it's -- it is -- it's evil and crazy what is happening there. Most people in the west can't even begin to understand it.

But can we go back and try to explain and tell us some stories that you saw firsthand on how the North Koreans are so isolated that they have really no concept of what's really going on in the world. And they think that they can beat the United States.

MICHAEL: Well, they're not completely, completely isolated because the barriers, thankfully, have been breaking down a little. However, to your question, this did not happen overnight.

GLENN: Yeah.

MICHAEL: This was a 70-year methodical process by this gangster family. And step by step, they built up barriers to separate North Korea from the rest of the world, things like anyone who spoke other languages or who studied abroad were sent to the concentration camps. Things like books in other languages being destroyed and no longer being allowed to be taught.

Let me give you an example of the mechanisms that they use to control their population. And, again, it's things we can't even wrap our heads around here.

Everyone in North Korea is slotted into some group. Your school. Your office. Your neighborhood. And once a week, that group gets together, and you have to stand up in front of your peers and say, "This is what I did wrong this week." And then your peers have to stand up and say what they noticed you doing wrong.

GLENN: Oh, my gosh.

MICHAEL: So everyone is watching each other all the time and reporting on each other all the time. So a lot of times, the people are like, well, why don't they just get together and overthrow the government. If you have two people conspiring, they're done.

And as you said, the founder of North Korea, the great leader Kim Il-sung said, "Class enemies must be exterminated to three generations." So they take three generations of a family -- and even Stalin at least had trials. There's no trials. You get a knock at the door in the middle of the night. The family gets taken. And you don't even know which one of you got you sent to the camps or to the countryside. They don't tell you. It's just, "Come with me."

GLENN: Let's -- let's -- can we go back to the Korean War and how they're viewing America. They've been -- you know, we had the Korean War. And it became a TV show called M*A*S*H. And that's it. For them, they have been preparing for this time since the 1950s.

MICHAEL: Right. So according to one of their books and according to their worldview -- by the way, you can't refer to us as Americans. We are always referred to by a slur like the US Imperialists. And it's just how the language is taught there. So automatically, when they're talking about us, they're using offensive terminology. There's a book in North Korea called The US Imperialists Started the Korean War. They are taught that we started the Korean War, that we've been waiting to conquer Korea since the 1860s when General Sherman went to Pyongyang. That part is true. We did visit them back in the 1860s.

And now we've been biding our time to come back and to finish the job that we started. Now, many of your listeners are veterans. The Korean War was completely devastating to the Korean Peninsula. You had China, Russia, and North Korea at the north. South Korea, US, and the UN at the south. And between the two, the devastation was complete.

So their whole point is, you remember how bad it was in the '50s. Well, any day now, the Americans are going to come back and finish that job. And, but for the leader, you would all be dead.

GLENN: And you say "but for the leader," what's remarkable is the calendar has been reset. It's the year, what?

MICHAEL: So the calendar starts -- again, they're not going to have a Christian calendar. Because having a Bible is the death penalty, right? So you're not going to have BC and AD. So their calendar starts with the birth of the great leader Kim Il-sung in 1912. So that's year one.

GLENN: Okay. So -- and he was -- I remember one of the Kim family was brought down, you know, by angels or birds. And -- I mean, crazy kind of stuff that he remembers the day of his birth. Do they -- do they believe this?

MICHAEL: There is a lot -- it's very funny because they claim to be an atheist country. But there's all sorts of supernaturalism that revolves around the Kim family. So Kim Il-sung, the great leader, the founder of North Korea, he had missionaries in his family. And he adopted a lot of Christian mythology and applied it to his life and the life of his son and his wife. So they have a holy trinity, which is the great leader Kim Il-sung, who is the founder of North Korea, and Kim Jong-un's uncle. We have Kim Jong-il, who was the dear leader. He's their Jesus figure. And Kim Jong-il's mother, who is always referred to as anti-Japanese heroine, Kim Jong-suk. They always picture here with a gun in her hand. So this is the holy trinity that keeps Korea safe. And they have Mount Paektu at the north, which is basically like their Mount Zion, which is the spirit of Korea and basically the embodiment of the Korean energy. So they have a lot of mystical stories about this family and basically -- but for Kim Il-sung, you know, who is almost a messiah figure, Korea would still be under the boot of Japan.

GLENN: So when the UN passed these really tough sanctions -- I'm for the sanctions. I don't know what else to do. Going in with military is just -- is almost and may be an act of insanity.


GLENN: But, you know, when you see the sanctions, the people have no idea that their leaders are the ones that are starving them and choking them to death. And this will only be blamed on us. And it will only make their lives worse.


GLENN: How do you break that, in that culture? Is it even possible to get people to understand, "No, no, it's -- your leader is evil?"

MICHAEL: Well, it started happening on a micro level. You remember towards the end of the Cold War, despite decades of communist propaganda, what happened is Russia people were watching American soap operas on television. And they were thinking to themselves, it's all well and good what I'm taught in school, but why does the maid on this television show have a fur coat and I'm literally wiping my butt with newspaper? You know, I don't care about Marx, whatever. I just want food for my kids.

GLENN: Right.

MICHAEL: And North Korea, the same thing is happening. They are seeing that all these other countries are wealthier than them. It doesn't matter what you teach me in school. I want my kids to have food. It's as simple as that.

So one of the things that has happened is they have changed their propaganda from, we are wealthy, and the world envies us. And now the propaganda says, we are keeping Korea pure. So it is also the most homogeneous and most racist country on earth. This is something that's not talked about in the press, that they believe Korea is the only country that has been racially pure since Neolithic times. And they regard the South as a region under US occupation, where we basically assault southern Korean women -- Americans do -- and do with them as we please. Us -- we being barbarians. So that's another aspect of their propaganda.

GLENN: So looking at what you know about North Korea and hearing the president yesterday --


GLENN: -- how is that interpreted by Kim Jong-un and -- and the people around him?

MICHAEL: I would honestly say it's going to be interpreted with a bit of respect.

GLENN: Oh, good.

MICHAEL: And here's why: They are bullies. Right? So let me -- when they talk about we know how to treat America -- in their words, they say, when necessary, we'll slap her across the face.

And, you know, I remember last year, year and a half ago, there was this photo released of Kim Jong-un in front of his Apple Computer. And there were nukes striking Austin. And the things that they get away with saying are just completely outrageous. So Trump was basically using their language against them. So on some level, they're going to have a bit of respect for it, just like anyone who runs his mouth. At a certain point, you have to get in his face. Now, I'm not saying you have to get in his face and shove him, but on some level, they're going to say, okay. This is going to be a difference in tone at least, from previous administrations.

GLENN: So where does he go from here? You know, he has killed everybody in his family who could have challenged him. He's done it openly. He's killed everybody around him that could challenge him.

MICHAEL: He's only killed one person. And actually, let's talk about how evil this family is: Kim Jong-un's aunt. Kim Kyong-hui, Kim Jong-il's sister, that was her husband who was killed. And she's such an evil woman, that when her daughter married someone who was below their social station, she drove her daughter to suicide.

STU: Hmm.


PAT: Didn't he have both his uncle and his brother killed -- the guy in the airport, right? Which one was that?

GLENN: The brother.

PAT: Wasn't that his brother? And then supposedly he had his uncle torn apart by dogs.

GLENN: Yeah. I thought -- he had somebody else killed by standing them in front of a cannon and blowing a hole through.

PAT: Are these urban legends, or did that actually happen?

GLENN: Is that the way he is, Michael?

PAT: Did we lose him?

GLENN: We've lost Michael.

Okay. So get him back on the phone. Let me take a quick break. Fascinating --

PAT: I guess we'll never know.

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: Having somebody -- I can't wait to also talk to him about his experience in the former Soviet Union.

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: Anyway, he'll be back in just a second.

First, our sponsor this half-hour is Goldline. What would the opening salvos of war with North Korea bring?

Thousands dead. Some say that a million plus could be dead within the first 24 hours. The region surrendering North Korea has become the world's industrial powerhouse. It is, you know, some of the biggest economies in the world are there. And would be affected immediately. Which would wreak havoc on not only a human scale and human life there, but also I believe the rest of the western world --

PAT: Yeah, you have South Korea who is the eleventh largest, and you have China the second largest.

GLENN: And you have Japan, which is, what? The fifth largest? The fourth largest?

PAT: Yeah. In there somewhere.

GLENN: I mean, it's all affected. And I would just suggest that you do your homework now. I -- I hope this is not going to be what the experts are starting to say it's going to be this fall. But a lot of people now -- and it actually gives me some comfort. Because these clowns are usually wrong. But a lot of people are saying real trouble with the economy is on the horizon. Please find out if gold or silver is right for you. You have your money in a 401(k) or an IRA, consider moving some of that money -- some of it -- 10 percent into gold, physical gold that you can hold.

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(OUT AT 10:23AM)

GLENN: We're talking to Michael Malice. He is the guy who went over to North Korea, wrote a book called Dear Reader, and saw behind the curtain, if you will. He's also a former citizen of the Soviet Union. So he has -- he has seen it from both sides. We were just talking to you, Michael, and we lost our connection, about, you know, we have heard that he killed his brother and his uncle.


GLENN: And then a lot of the people around him who could have challenged him, he has taken out and done horrible things to. True or false?

MICHAEL: Okay. So the last part is false because theres no -- there's no one around him who could have challenged him because the point is, it's only a descendent of the great leader Kim Il-sung, who could be in the leadership position. So the people at the very top there, it's not like they were voted in. They're only at the very top specifically because of their loyalty to the regime. In fact, unless you're loyal to the regime, you're not allowed to even step foot in Pyongyang. You're geographically assigned where to live in North Korea, based on how loyal you and your family has been to the regime. That's number one.


MICHAEL: So he killed his elder half brother, who he only met once, I believe, because, again, only a descendent of Kim Il-sung can be the leader. So if your brother is killed, there's no plan B for you, if Kim Jong-un is taken out. There's not a Mike Pence sitting in the wings.


MICHAEL: And lastly, one of the things that I was fighting about -- fighting, you know, when writing Dear Reader is the sensationalism. We tend to believe the craziest possible stories about North Korea. And South Korea reported that his uncle -- technically, his aunt's husband was eaten by dogs. That's not true. He was shot. But he was killed, and with her agreement.

GLENN: So then, you know, we keep hearing that he feels backed in a corner.

MICHAEL: That's right.

GLENN: Who is he backed in a corner by if there's no -- if there's nobody to take his place?

MICHAEL: Well, he's -- there's increasing pressure from America. There's increasing pressure from China. And what would happen is when -- you remember possibly Romania, when Ceausescu, the evil dictator of Romania for decades, when he was take -- there was a moment, and it's a very beautiful moment for everyone who loves freedom, when this horrible dictator was on TV, and for the first time the crowd starts booing. And you see the look on his face. And two or three days later, him and his wife were shot.

Kim Jong-il took that video and showed it to all the leading party cadres and said -- said, "If the masses rise up, this is what is going to happen to us." So when these regimes go down, the people at the very top like Gadhafi, like Hussein are personally killed, and with good reason.

So that's another very important incentive for Kim Jong-un to do anything he can to stay in power. It's not like if he's removed from power, he's going to, you know, retire to Saint-Tropez. This man is a monster.

GLENN: So I've only got about 30 seconds here, so perhaps I ask it and then we come back on the other side. Because I really want to know also about, you know, the former Soviet Union and your life there.

MICHAEL: Sure. Yeah.

GLENN: But I guess what I would like to know -- and I don't know if you could answer this: So is he likely to just kind of be quiet and allow himself to be put into a box, or is he the type that will fire off a missile because he's a god?

MICHAEL: He's the type who was taught and believes, you fight fire with twice as much fire and escalate whenever possible, especially when you're the small dog.

GLENN: Okay. So what that means exactly, we come back. You can find Michael at

(OUT AT 10:30AM)

GLENN: Michael Malice, he is an author and commentator. He's an expert to North Korea. Traveled to the very closed country. Wrote a book called Dear Reader. The unauthorized autobiography of Kim Jong-il.

You just said to me, Michael, that Kim Jong-un is a guy who believes if you're hit, you hit back twice as hard. You don't back down. And as you're describing the traits of Kim Jong-un, you're also describing our president.

MICHAEL: Well, I mean, to some extent. You remember during the campaign, Trump did apologize for the audio that got out. And I don't think President Trump would be comfortable starving 10 percent of the population.

GLENN: Oh, no, no, no. I don't mean it that way. No, no, no, I don't mean it -- I do not mean to equate the two of them. I mean, just as far as tactics.


GLENN: You know, last night, I thought the press -- the press was crazy last night.


GLENN: They were almost saying, you know, we got to have war because, Mr. President, now you're not going to have any credibility. You can't back down. It was crazy.

MICHAEL: Glenn, it was terrifying that they're basically saying, "Oh -- first of all, the idea if North Korea is going to attack us, that they're going to go after Guam is insane on its face. They're going to have one shot, they're going to make it count, to be totally Machiavellian about it.

But let's have some perspective: For decades, we had hundreds, if not thousands of nuclear weapons from the Soviet Union pointed at us and our allies. And that was something that we managed to deal with. So this situation is not entirely without precedent.

GLENN: Okay. So that is --

MICHAEL: So everyone should take a deep breath, you know.

GLENN: So my position today has been pretty much that: Take a deep breath.


GLENN: There is no good answer to this. The thing to do is walk away, keep your eye and ear to the ground.


GLENN: But just walk -- there's no good answer to this.


GLENN: Is that enough for Kim Jong-un?

MICHAEL: Well, it's scary to me how so many people are saying that because Kim Jong-un is treating our country and our president with disrespect, that we -- I saw one commentator say, "We should rain hellfire on North Korea."

GLENN: That's craziness.

MICHAEL: I mean, these are 25 million -- you want to talk about having the moral high ground, being the moral leader of the free world, and you're going to be killing 25 million slaves and hostages. What kind of person are you that -- not only that, what kind of person are you that that's your first reaction, as opposed to a last resort? It's terrifying.

GLENN: No. I was watching last night -- I'm so glad to hear you saying this, Michael. I was watching CNN. And they kept going on and on and on about, you know, how the president said all these things. And now there's a red line. And -- and -- and -- and commentator after commentator yesterday was saying, "You know, we don't have a choice. We can't be embarrassed. We can't, you know, be the laughing stock."

And I'm thinking, "We're talking about the possibility of millions dead. Who cares about your stupid honor if all it means is, you know what, I said something I shouldn't have said? I'm going to shut my mouth now, and what do you say we leave those millions alive?"

MICHAEL: Glenn, I'm going to make it even worse. The people in these concentration camps are told constantly and explicitly -- there's like 100, 200,000 people. Should the US imperialists invade, we will kill you all and burn these camps to the ground. So like you're saying, if someone has a gun to my kid's head, if someone -- if at some school, someone has a bomb that they're going to blow up a school, they can call me every name in the book. Please, call me all the names you want. Just don't kill the children. And the idea that, well, we better go in and kill the children first, as the response, is even more demented.

GLENN: How is North Korea -- if the United States would respond, I can't imagine that South Korea -- because it would be almost like our American civil war --


GLENN: -- is going to sit happily by as, A, Seoul is most likely destroyed.


GLENN: And, secondly, they have family members up there. It would be viewed as the United States killing their family members, would it not?

MICHAEL: To some extent, those families have been separated now for 70 years with no communication with each other.

But let's talk something else: You know, people saying they have nukes now. This is unprecedented. They've had missiles pointed at Seoul for decades.

GLENN: Yeah.

MICHAEL: Seoul is a city with, you know, tens of millions of people, with skyscrapers. Can you imagine the imagery of missiles hitting a city full of skyscrapers? Even if they didn't have nukes, is that something people are comfortable with? Or it's just, well, at least it wasn't nukes that are hitting these skyscrapers. I mean, is that what we're talking about? And that is what we're talking about.

So it's a very dangerous situation. And, Glenn, I know you remember very well the -- the war mania that led up to the Iraq War, and how everyone was like, "We got to do something. We got to do something now. Emergency. Emergency. Emergency." Let's freak out. Let's do things as quickly as possible.

And it's like, what I was taught growing up in school is that war is a last resort. It's not the first thing you do, and it's not your best option, especially when you're dealing with a regime that is comfortable with killing its own citizens to maintain its hold on power.

STU: Talking to Michael Malice. is the site.

Michael, is there an increase in their resources lately? I mean, they've been able to outpace all of our intelligence estimates as to what they've been able to develop.

GLENN: Like crazy.

STU: They're dumping money into things like renovating the Hotel of Doom, which, you know, is only the Hotel of Doom because they didn't have money at one point. Are they --

MICHAEL: Well, no, the Hotel of Doom -- so let's talk about how North Korea uses their army. North Korea, everyone in the army does construction. So they're not just sitting around or whatever. They actually build things.

So that hotel, which is I think at one point, the largest building in the eastern hemisphere or something crazy, the Ryugyong Hotel was structurally unsound. So it was never completed because it can't be completed. It's a complete mess.

And it just looms like this giant hulk over Pyongyang. But let me also talk -- you talk about having empathy for the North Korean people. When I went there and we were taking the bus from the airport to the capital city, my guide pointed at that hotel, and she goes, "Look, there's our latest rocket launch."

And, you know, we don't think of them as human beings. They have a sense of humor. They have families. You know, when you're on the street, you see the grandmothers doting with their grandkids. You see teenage girls giggling when you wave at them. The fact that these people are capable of having some semblance of humanity in the most inhumane country on earth behooves us when you read news reports and trying to make them out to be clowns. Keep in mind, again, like I said earlier --

GLENN: They're not clowns.

MICHAEL: -- if someone has your family as a hostage, you're going to put on clown makeup too.

GLENN: Yeah. And it's not -- the people are -- you know, when -- I think when somebody says, you know, these people are clowns, they're meaning, you know, I think people like Kim Jong-un, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. He's not a clown.


GLENN: He knows what he's doing. He just operates with a completely operating system than we do.

MICHAEL: Right. And the whole point of my book is spelling out how they operate and what they're doing. Because it's very logical. It's very methodical. But let me speak a bit about the clown issue: Like, I remember there was an article in a British paper that showed the marching. And it referred to Kim Jong-un's miniskirted robot army, that these young women, you know, in the army are all marching in lockstep and ha-ha-ha. It's like, you know, they're hostages. Of course, they're going to march like they're told. They're not robots. To call someone a robot is to act like they don't have a soul or a mind of their own, and they very much do.

GLENN: Okay. Well, let me ask you -- first of all, can we have you back? We're running out of time. Can we have you back tomorrow?

MICHAEL: Of course. It's an honor. We'll figure it out. We can figure it out, yes.

GLENN: Let me ask you two other questions: First of all, Otto Warmbier, the kid that went over.


GLENN: Was caught stealing a propaganda poster.


GLENN: Fifteen years.

MICHAEL: Trespassing.

GLENN: What did you say?

MICHAEL: Trespassing.

GLENN: Yes. Fifteen years to hard labor. Looks like they pretty much tortured him to death and dumped on our body, I thought, in a way that was very reminiscent of the Godfather.


GLENN: Sending us a message: Here's -- here's your citizen back.

MICHAEL: No, no, no, no. That's not it at all. They had him as a hostage. If you have a hostage, you want to return the hostage in one piece so you get your ransom. So when things turned south, they knew they couldn't take care of him, and that's why they dropped him off here. Think about it.

He didn't serve a day of hard labor. They treat their hostages very, very well because they're a valuable resource. Remember when they kidnapped that Ling reporter, they got President Clinton to fly to Pyongyang and kiss Kim Jong-il's ring? That's a great coup.

GLENN: Right. But this guy it looks like he was drugged and tortured. That's --

MICHAEL: My understanding is that the autopsies showed no signs of trauma, and this could have been self-harm.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: Okay. Had not heard that one.

STU: Wow.

GLENN: One last question.


GLENN: Is there a -- is there something that we could be doing right now, other than sitting on our hands and just hoping for the best now? Is there something that we should be doing or we should be encouraging some other country to be doing?

MICHAEL: Yeah. We should be sitting down with China and saying, what is it going to take for you to turn on these people once and for all? And, frankly, Glenn, if they have --

GLENN: Oh. Did we lose him again?

MICHAEL: -- of food and they don't have concentration camps, I'm fine with it.

GLENN: You're saying: If -- if China would just roll in and they were still communists, but they were fed and no concentration camps...

MICHAEL: Right. Communism in the Chinese model, do you know what I mean? I could live with that. They don't have to have some Western liberal democracy. As long as they don't have to live in constant fear that their children are going to be murdered, that's all I need.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: How old were you when you left the former Soviet Union?

MICHAEL: Two years old.

GLENN: And your parents came over here with you, when?


GLENN: So they escaped and knew what they were escaping?

MICHAEL: Oh, yes. Oh, of course. And it wasn't anywhere near as bad towards the end as it had been, you know, when they were growing up. And it certainly wasn't anywhere near as bad as North Korea.

GLENN: Do you watch the TV show The Americans?

MICHAEL: I couldn't because they have being patriotic Russians, and that wasn't a thing. By the '80s, everyone was cynical and knew that the system was nonsense.

PAT: Huh. Wow.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: Okay. So I'd love to have you on, maybe again tomorrow. Because I'd like to talk to you about what it's like to live in a communist country.

MICHAEL: Oh, absolutely.

GLENN: What you know. And how we've kind of blown it here on our side. And maybe perhaps you have some insight on Putin as well, on --

MICHAEL: Well, I'll just tell you one sentence: We fought the KGB, and now we have the NSA. No, I'm not joking. I'm not joking. What's the difference?

PAT: Oh, man.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: Mike, good to have you on. Michael Malice. You can buy the book, Dear Reader: The Unauthorized Biography of Kim Jong-il, and we'll talk to you again tomorrow a little bit about, you know, what it's like to live in a communist country and what your family saw and how that relates to today. Thank you so much, Michael. We'll talk to you again.

MICHAEL: Thank you so much, Glenn.

GLENN: You bet.

What the Latest CPI Report & Soaring Gold Prices Mean for YOUR WALLET

What the Latest CPI Report & Soaring Gold Prices Mean for YOUR WALLET

The price of gold just hit a new all-time high and that’s NOT a good sign. Plus, the CPI report for March has released and it revealed that inflation rose faster than expected yet again. But of course, the Biden administration is bragging about how gas inflation allegedly went DOWN. Financial expert Carol Roth joins to explain what the gold and CPI news means for your wallet, as well as why the White House’s data is “trash.” Plus, she reveals a new way that small business owners can vent their frustrations to Congress.


Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Carol Roth, I know we have a lot to talk about. So just quickly, I woke up this morning.

Looking at gold prices.

And it was kind of -- kind of impressed, on how they're skyrocketing. And I remember, a conversation with the gold guy.

Who said, don't ever, ever look at gold and say, gee. I hope it goes up because of my portfolio.

And we were talking about $3,000 an ounce. And he says, do you realize how crazy the world has to be, for gold to be at $3,000 an ounce?

It's over 2400 right now. We're headed there quickly.

CAROL: Yeah. You remember a discussion that I and I had with a group of people, I believe, in November of last year. When people were saying a similar thing. When is gold going to break out? And you and I were both communicate the idea that gold is really a hedge against all kind of insanity. Things like inflation. Things like the crumbling standing of the dollar. Things like war.

And so when you see that gold continues to rise. Even in the face of things like rising yields on bonds. I mean, normally, there's a lot of push back there. We saw that as bond yields had gone up.

People were moving away from gold. Because you weren't getting that same interest rate. You know, gold does not produce an interest rate. So there is a different reason why we are looking at gold. And some of the things that we're talking about are a bit more structural. Perhaps gold is playing a bigger role in things like settling international commodities. Trades. And trading between countries.

Particularly, the BRICS nations. But, again, all of the things that are the signals, none of them are good for us here in the United States.

You have the signal as, oh, well, it's just because trade. Well, that's not good for the US dollars reserve currency. And that's not good for, you know, inflation over the long term and our purchasing power.

And so all of these things have a mechanism. And when you see so much interest in gold over the past few months. When it has been very steady for -- for a while.

That breakout is giving you additional information. And like you said, this particular case, I think that information is coming from lots of different places. And not one of them is good.

GLENN: Oh, yeah. One of them is, we're hitting the point where our -- our debt, the interest on our debt is going to be 1.6 trillion dollars a year. That's more than Social Security.

It's the biggest. It will be the top line on our budget now, is just the interest. Because we have an adjustable mortgage in America.

And the fed, I think is out of bullets.

CAROL: Yeah. I've been making this argument now for a couple of years. That the fed's monetary policy isn't effective. Because they are -- they're trying to control, demand, and so many of the issues that we've had are on the supply side.

Additionally, we've been headed. And I think we are in today, this period of fiscal to me unanimous. And as we've talked about before, that just means, that fiscal policy plays a bigger role in what is determining economic outcomes and monetary policy.

On its face, that is sort of neutral physical dominance. In our particular situation, it's very bad. It's because of the debt. It's because of the deficits. And it's because of the fact, that we have it these massive interest payments. And continuing deficits, that need to be financed and are creating this vicious loop.

And as we know, there are -- there is not a lot of ways to finance the debt.

There certainly are not a lot of buyers. And we say that this week. There was a Treasury option, for ten-year Treasury notes, that did horribly. It was rated a D by (inaudible) CNBC, who was very, very smart.

GLENN: Oh, my gosh.

CAROL: D, by the way, I don't know if you know this. Is right next to F. So that is a very bad position, to be in.

GLENN: We've always been AAA, haven't we?

I mean, for ten years.

CAROL: So there's a debt rating. And that's done by the rating agencies. These are the bond options.

This is when the Treasury goes out to the market. And says, you know, how is it that, you know -- how did we do?

How many buyers were there? Who were -- who wanted to buy our debts?

And so this happens on a regular basis. And, you know, people who watch this. They give those auctions a grade. To say, how did we do?

Were there a lot of buyers? Not a lot of buyers.

So this particular time, there were not a lot of buyers. And the banks and the security dealers. Had to stock up a lot of that debt.

It's pushing us to this path of monetization. Again, that we've been talking about. That means, we're buying our own debt. And that is inflationary.

So even if we're not getting things like rate cuts, that potentially could stoke inflation. You're going to get this monetization of debt, which is inflationary. Which is why I've been arguing that inflation is sticky. And it doesn't matter if the fed goes high or low.

It's getting us on either side, until the government gets its act together. They are driving the show. It is that fiscal dominance.

GLENN: Tell me about the Consumer Price Index.

And the wholesale index. The numbers don't make sense.

For instance, fuel is not an inflation -- isn't in inflation right now? Look at the price of fuel. What do they mean?

CAROL: So you know who loves the data coming out of the government right now, Glenn?

GLENN: The government.

CAROL: Oscar the Grouch. You know why? Because the data is trash. It's absolutely trash data.

Not only have we seen adjustments on a regular basis.

The scope of which, we have not seen in a long time.

The numbers always get adjusted. But we have not seen these massive adjustments, that we have been seeing.

We also have a phenomenon, where people and entities, who are responding to the surveys. Where they collect the data, don't want to do that anymore.

Either they don't want to be board.

They don't trust the government with their data. Whatever it is.

They don't want to give up their competitive advantage.

They're having fewer people respond to these surveys. Which means that there is more of this projection and biases in the survey. So that's why we saw, you know, the CPI, which is the Consumer Price Index. That's where they go out and they survey households, that came in, higher than expected.

We all expected that it would be an uptick. Because as you said, we know the price of oil and other commodities would be going up. So this was not a surprise to any of us who live in the real world.

So that was somewhat reflected in that data. And certainly, the -- the market had reacted to that, and said, oh, well, if that's the case. The fed can't cut. Then we have another measure of inflation.

Because they measure it in different ways. This is the producer price index. PPI. Which is the wholesale measure of inflation. This is what they're supposed to tell you what's coming. Because the inputs that go into your goods and services give you a sense of what is coming down the pike.

And this was the one that was the head scratcher. Because it was not -- there's a huge disconnect between these two measures always. But even a bigger disconnect. The one as you said, everybody is going, what's going on here? Related to energy.

So floating around on social media yesterday, there was a chart about the season 58 adjustments. Again, the manipulation of the data that they do. And if you look at that, it showed you that gasoline for the month, was down 3.6 percent. I think it was.

But if you did it --

GLENN: Yeah. 3.6.

So if you didn't seasonally adjusted. It would have been up 6.3 percent.

That's a really big swing. That's like a 10 percent swing, between the two of them.

So, again, Oscar the Grouch data here, certainly we're going to get another measure in a couple of weeks here. One called the PCE. The personal consumptions expenditures index. This is the fed's, quote, unquote, favored measure.

I don't know. Maybe they like the people who do it better. It's a little bit more broad. That's what they tend to make their policy decisions on.

But the media and everybody is focused on the CPI. So it makes it very difficult for them. Or at least adds another layer of difficulty. Because they will do whatever it is, that they want to do.

When that is going up, for them to say, well, inflation is under control.

We can go ahead, and start to cut interest rates. Which is why I think everybody needs to be paying attention, to their other tools.

Which relate to the balance sheet and debt. And what they're going to do there. Because that's just a different way for them to be cooperatively.

GLENN: They're not going to do anything. They're not going to be doing anything. I mean, he's not addressing inflation. Biden is spending more.

He's now, again, forgiving more at the time. Trying to get people into houses.

I mean, he is -- we're just giving away the store at this point.

LEE: They have -- we have been saying this since day one. They've been working in the opposite direction. If you wanted to help the fed get inflation under control at the government, you should have been working with them.

You should not have been running up leftists. You've been doing. Putting into place, policies that help supply issues, instead of hurting supply issues.

Every single thing this administration has done, has been a barrier, not only to you keeping your wealth and your purchasing power. But what it is, the fed has been doing.

And that's the fight that the fed has been having.

And I just think, at some point, they're going need to be real explicit. And say, we can't do anything. Until our partners get on the same page.

But, you know, everything is political.

GLENN: It doesn't happen. That's not going to happen.

CAROL: Yeah, not going to happen.

GLENN: When we come back, she actually has been invited to be somebody who testifies in front of Congress.

Carol Roth, in front of Congress, testifying as an expert, by the end of the month. On small businesses. And she's going to be talking about the FinCEN thing that's going on with LLCs and small businesses.

Where you have to register all this information, or you're a criminal.

CAROL: Yeah.

GLENN: And it's going to devastate small businesses. Small LLCs. And it affects so many people. She will be testifying.

But here's the good news. She wants to use information, that maybe you have.

To back up her testimony.

And we'll talk about that in 60 seconds.

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No. I think our banks are fine.

Everything is doing really well. Just a quick update. The AT&T Tower in St. Louis went for $3.55 million. That's a good, solid $2 a square foot. Sold for $3 million. It was sold for over 205 million, just about 15 years ago.

So no. There's nothing to see here. Nothing to see here. Carol, let's talk about small business.


GLENN: Take me through. In case people don't know what FinCEN is. Or what people are requiring them to do.

This is the criminal arm of the Treasury. And they're asking everybody who has an LLC or a small business to register.

CAROL: Yes. So this is called the CTA, BOI rule.

And basically, what it said, and this was passed by Congress.

Was vetoed by President Trump. And then they went back, and Congress overturned the veto, and gave this arm of the Treasury, which is charged with preventing financial crimes. Sort of free rein.

And they said, okay. We will create a database. And if you have any sort of entity, if you have an LLC, even a single member LLC, an S-Corp, a C-Corp, any sort of entity, and you're a business. You need to register with us. The financial crimes enforcement network. Because we want to prevent money laundering and cartels. And, of course, you know, I'm sure all of those people are going to self-report.

But they exempted.

GLENN: All the best cartels do.

CAROL: They all do. Well, we will do these things. We will make sure that FinCEN gets euro information.

They exempted all the big businesses. So this is unfairly targeting small businesses, so the updates. A few things that are what are happening. And we can certainly go more into this. I have been invited by the house. Small business committee, to be an expert, to testify and, you know, obviously testify against this. And how bad this is for small businesses.

And how unconstitutional at the end of the month.

What I am doing is I am bringing statements from small business owners. Because it's great to hear my statement. But if I can show up there, and say, I have hundred. Or 200 small businesses.

And here's what they have to say about this. And they're all outraged.

That holds a lot more weight.

So anyone who owns a small business. You support small business. Go to That's, slash, Charlie Tango Alpha. And I made it really easy. I have given it a form letter, that if you want, you can borrow some of it. You can borrow all of it. You can borrow none of it, but I am going to show up at Congress with this staff from small business owners to say, you have heard what I have had to say.

Now, listen to what small business owners from across the nation, have to say, to try to get them to overturn this.

GLENN: Now, could I -- because today is not the day for me to write something. Because I'm in a very bad mood.

But I could -- could I just write to you and say, yeah. Here's what I would like to say to Congress.

I'm working my ass off, so I can keep my family afloat. And the families of all my employees, and you guys are just making my life more and more difficult, with more and more restrictions and -- and guidelines.

That nobody in Congress passed.

And are not good for the American people.

I've had it!

CAROL: Please do. Again, Please do that. And I actually think being in a bad mood is a good time to write it, because that's when you will be honest. And that's when you will --

GLENN: I will write today then.

CAROL: Yeah. And so -- and speaking of helping, so one of the things that you did, that was very generous, Glenn. You offered to put forth a lawsuit. And I agreed. We cannot do that. Because we have been outspoken. But the good news is that there are two new lawsuits against this, that have also popped up. So we have a lot of really good momentum. And appreciative to you, for all of your help.

GLENN: Okay. Okay. So give me the address again. It's Correct?

CAROL: Correct.

GLENN: Okay. If you're a small business owner, go ahead.

Vent a little bit. You will take it to Congress. Thanks, Carol.

Why the Elites WANT You to Be POOR

Why the Elites WANT You to Be POOR

Elites, especially on the Left, always say they want to help the poor…but then, they turn around and sell out blue collar workers while encouraging illegal immigration! In fact, economic turmoil is making MORE people poor. But that’s exactly what they want, argues “Second Class” author Batya Ungar-Sargon. She joins Glenn to make the case that the elites “want everybody to be poor because they control the college-educated and the poor…that’s how the Democrats win.” Plus, she explains what the working class actually wants, and it sounds a lot like a certain presidential candidate…


Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Batya, welcome to the Glenn Beck Program. How are you?

BATYA: Oh, man. Thank you so much for having me back, Glenn!

It's a pleasure to be here with you.

GLENN: You bet. You bet. So I have been saying for a while now, as I'm looking at what the western world, the elites are doing to their own countries.

And our own civilization. They are impoverishing people. They are giving our stuff away, to other people.

And I mean that in Europe and here where -- where illegals are just permeating the country. And the jobs are going there.

They're -- they're disarming us. They're -- they're selling us, bound and gagged to our foe, it feels like.

Is that what's happening?

BATYA: Yeah. Yeah. 100 percent. Glenn, you have been on this for such a long time. Because you're so clear-eyed about this. There has been a massive plunder of the middle class by the elites. First, they shift good manufacturing jobs overseas to build up China and Mexico's middle class.

Then they said, they're not coming back, right?

We're never going to get those jobs back. If you want the American dream. You will have to go to college. Where you'll become a card-carrying Democrat. Right? And now they opened the border and brought in 15 million illegal migrants from failed socialist states just to undercut the wages in the jobs that remained here.

And it's because fundamentally, to the elites. There is no difference between working class and poor.

They want everybody to be poor because they control the college educated and the poor. That is why they're trying to get everybody out of the middle class, and either into the college credentials. You know, leftist elites or to make them poor.

Because that's how the Democrats win.
GLENN: While I've never heard that opinion before, I think, where they were intentionally doing it because they can control the poor.

BATYA: Yeah. Absolutely. Otherwise it makes no sense, right? Where does the contempt from the working class come from. Where does this plunder come from? Why did they sell out labor?

Remember, the Democrats used to -- to making working class people poor, with these policies, that you talk about all the time, Glenn.
Opening the border. Bringing in massive, massive amounts of competition for the working class.

Like, who would do such a thing, right?

And it's not on accident, Glenn.

Of course, this is all intentional. Joe Biden showed up on day one.

To the executive Trump orders. Which secured the border.

Which would sun do that on purpose, if they didn't want that before?

GLENN: Well, it's amazing to me that the labor unions were part of it. The Democrats were for labor, you say. They were always -- they did seem to represent the working class much more. But it was their love of the labor unions.

The labor unions are still with them. As they are helping them dismantle American jobs.

BATYA: 100 percent. And I think that's why, you see only 6 percent of the private sector is unionized. Working-class Americans, they may want the wages and the protections that unions can get their members.

But they see the unions, actively supporting the party and the policy, of importing their competition.

And so, they don't see a future for themselves, in the labor unions. And, you know, Joe Biden likes to say, he's the most pro-union president to ever rule. Maybe that's true. But the unions themselves, are no longer able to represent their actual members.

GLENN: Correct.

BATYA: I have to say, I thought it was great that Trump met with the teamsters. And he got a donation for the RNC from the teamsters.

Because it shows that the teamsters are listening to the rank-and-file. Who, of course, prefer Trump.

GLENN: So you say, that the working class, in America.

Is super diverse.

But united on the policies, that they think would Mike their lives better.

And you say, that is true, whether you're Republican or Democrat.

Where is that unity on policy?

What are those policies?

BATYA: Right. For my book, second class. How the elites betrayed America's working men and women.

I traveled around the country for a year, interviewing working class Americans of all races, all backgrounds and religions. And many, many, many different industries. Totally across the country. And what I found was so much more unites them than divides them.

First of all, polarization, a totally elite phenomenon. And I know your listeners know this. Because I know you have a strong working class listenership.

They know, that they would never hate their neighbor, just because they happen to vote for another party.

They hate both parties, by the way. You know, there is a lot of contempt for the elites in the political class, who love to go to Washington and fight with each other, pretend they're fighting with each other.

While both parties turn their backs on labor.

Here's what I found was the most common view.

So I met a lot of people. Including a lot of Christians. Who had a gay person in their life, who they wanted to be treated with respect. But they were extremely worried about the transgender agenda.

I met a lot of people who were really unhappy about how much welfare there is. And new people who were scamming the system.

And they were very frustrated by that. But they also really didn't like that corporations seemed to them, to be, you know, against their interests.

And that they -- there was so much support for corporations. And not for them.

They were very against immigration. Most of the people, I interviewed.

Including the Democrats, wanted something like a total moratorium on immigration. But they also felt like there should be some sort of government backed -- catastrophic health care.

They couldn't stand the idea that they work with their hands and do physical labor, and they can't afford good health care. So you see how their views are sort of united?

The working class, but neither party really aligns with those set of views.

GLENN: So how come -- because you would say, I don't want to make this into a partisan thing.

I think I have to. When you're looking at Donald Trump, that describes him, respect for gay people.

You know, he is -- he is -- he is the first person to ever have gay people openly speak at the convention.

He's very open to that.

But he is also -- doesn't want to be harmful to transgender people. But is against all of this craziness.

When it comes to -- the -- the -- they're very much against immigration.

That's huge. And that's Donald Trump. How is it that you don't see Democrats looking at some of these big, big items. And say, okay.

Well, clearly, this side is -- is totally against everything I really believe in.

How about the Democrats?

BATYA: Oh, we're definitely -- we're definitely seeing that. Trump is now polling at 35 percent of black men. He's going to get much more than that.

So 2020, he got -- he was polling at 8 percent of black men, and he got 18 percent.

He's now polling at 35 percent of black men. He has the majority of Hispanics polling for him. We're seeing a mass defection of working class people of color, away from the Democrats who are actively undermining them and their future towards Donald Trump.

I will tell you something else, Glenn.

Donald Trump is the consensus candidate, that Joe Biden pretended he will be. You're so right.

His entire agenda is right at the 50-yard line. It's where 70 percent of the Americans are. And 0 percent of the elites. So we are seeing mass defection from the Democrats to Donald Trump. In the working class. And we're seeing the elites, you know, the Nikki Haleys, G.O.P. elites will probably vote for Joe Biden.

That's the political realignment that we're seeing. The rich are moving towards the Democrats. Or have moved to the Democrats. Including conservative rich people. I bet you. We know that Wall Street gave more money to Joe Biden, than they did to Donald Trump.

That's not an accident. I think you're completely right about that.

GLENN: Well, not all rich people support Joe Biden. I want you to know that.

GLENN: So the elites, at what point do you think we break through the ice, on people realizing, that it's not Donald Trump and Joe Biden.

That it is truly, the elites against -- you know, people who say, hey. Can you pay attention to us in America?

First, can you just -- can you not continue to just put me under water. When are we going to break the lie that, and stop playing the left/right game. And realize, it's these people who think they're better than us. That are just trying to put their foot on our neck, all the time.

BATYA: I think this election is going to come down to the working class.

And I think it will become totally unignorable after that. The question is: What happens after that?

These working class people aren't voting for the Republicans. They are voting for Donald Trump. And if the G.O.P. wants to keep these voters, they have to stop pushing tax cuts over everything else. And they have to start listening to the working class. I interviewed 100 people, and 25 of them are quoted at great length in my book, second class.

You want to hear how working class people, who agree with you, about woke. And agree with you about conservative values.

But very much need an economic agenda. They need the G.O.P. to stop pimping them out, on the altar of the woke ideas, that they agree with.

But that, you know, tickle the pickle of the conservative elites, right?

And start creating an economic agenda, for the working class. The first party, that gets to that combination of house care, plus controlling immigration, is going to have a ruling majority.


Batya, thank you so much for being on.

The name of the book, again, is really all about everything that we're doing, right now. Everything you're feeling right now. It's called Second Class.

Batya, thank you so much.

Democrat’s INSANE Claims About the Moon & Sun BREAK Glenn’s Brain

Democrat’s INSANE Claims About the Moon & Sun BREAK Glenn’s Brain

We have a new contender for “most insane thing a politician has said.” While speaking to high school students, Democratic Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee claimed that the moon gives off energy, is made of gas, and because of that, might not be possible to live on. She later insisted that she misspoke and was talking about the sun … BUT she also stated that it’s “ALMOST impossible to go near the sun” because it’s too hot. Glenn and Pat review these … interesting … claims, as well as Rep. Jasmine Crockett’s latest argument for reparations.


Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

PAT: You know, you've been pretty hard on our representatives in Congress today. I think unfairly so. Unfairly so.

GLENN: Unfairly so. Unfairly so. Okay.

PAT: Because they're doing some solid things too.

GLENN: Really? Are they?

PAT: Maybe not the ones who are on the take on the insider trading.

GLENN: Right. Which is about 75 percent of them.

PAT: But other 30 percent, they're on the job.

GLENN: The other 30 percent.

PAT: They're educating Americans. Sheila Jackson Lee was out speaking to high school kids, for instance. And she was talking about the moon. You know, because the moon was just in front of the sun and blocked it for a while. So I think she had some interesting facts on the moon.

GLENN: Oh. Really? On the eclipse. And the moon.

Really? Okay. Here she is.

VOICE: Provide unique light and energy, to say that you have the energy of the moon at night.

And sometimes you've heard the word "full moon. Sometimes you need to take the opportunity just to come out and see, a full moon is that complete rounded circle, which is made up mostly of gases.

GLENN: What?

VOICE: That's why the question is why or how could we as humans live on the moon.

PAT: Right.

VOICE: And the gas is such, that we could do that.

VOICE: The sun is a mighty powerful heat. It's almost --

PAT: Almost. Almost impossible.

VOICE: -- impossible to go near the sun. The moon is more manageable.

PAT: Yeah.

VOICE: And you will see in a moment -- not a moment, you will see in a couple of years, that NASA is going back to the moon.

PAT: Right.

GLENN: With all that gas?

PAT: Yeah. Well, yeah, because it's manageable. And it's a gas such that, you can stand on it.

GLENN: You can stand on the gas.

PAT: Almost like the gas was a solid.

GLENN: But it's not.

PAT: It's not. It's gas.

GLENN: Okay. So it's not -- now, see, I'm learning a lot here.

It's not impossible to stand --

PAT: No. But almost, on the sun.

GLENN: On the sun. Yeah. Right? When you go there, you'll be uncomfortable, if you try to live there, on the sun.

GLENN: I've been to places where it's hot before.

PAT: Right. It will just be a little hotter than that.

GLENN: A little hotter than that.

PAT: Big deal. Big deal.

GLENN: An air conditioner. Okay.

So I didn't know -- because I thought it was impossible to stand on gas.

PAT: Yeah.

GLENN: You know what I mean?

PAT: Yeah. She's saying that this gas is such that it's possible, to live there, and to stand there. Yeah. Because we already have, obviously.

GLENN: And hang on just a second. What was that full moon, thing?

PAT: Yeah. It's like a full circle. When you see the entire circle. The round thing in -- orb, in the sky. That's the full --

GLENN: You're not supposed to look at that round orb in the sky.

PAT: No. That's okay to look at. Its energy is such that --

GLENN: Oh. The moon's energy.

PAT: The moon's energy. And the moon's light.

It's a pretty good light.

GLENN: It's more of a night light.

It's kind of nice.

PAT: Yes. I don't think she understands the moon doesn't have its own light. I don't think she knows that.

GLENN: I don't think she knows that either. I don't think she thinks.

PAT: It's awesome. Is that incredible? Wow!


PAT: Yeah. The moon. Gas.

GLENN: You know what, could you play that again?

Because notice, no one laughs.

PAT: Right. Because she is not joking.

GLENN: I'm not sure -- right. I know. But no one laughs. I'm not sure anyone in the audience knows she was wrong.

VOICE: Provide unique light and energy. So that you have the energy of the moon at night.

GLENN: No, you don't.

VOICE: And sometimes, you've heard the word "full moon."

PAT: You've heard that, yeah?

VOICE: Sometimes you need to take the opportunity just to come out and see, a full moon is that complete rounded circle, which is made up of mostly gases.

PAT: Right. Right. No.

VOICE: That's why the question is why or how could we as humans live on the moon.

GLENN: We don't.

VOICE: The gas is such that we could do that.

GLENN: We don't.

VOICE: It's almost --

PAT: No. Almost.

VOICE: -- impossible, to go near the sun.

PAT: Impossible. Almost. But not --

VOICE: And you will see in a --

GLENN: I -- I --

VOICE: You will see in a couple of years, that NASA is going back to the moon.

PAT: Okay.

GLENN: The gas. With the gas.

PAT: Yes. To stand on the gaseous moon, so it's going to be cool to see.

GLENN: Wow. Wow. So how much gas do we get from the moon?

I mean, it must cost Exxon a lot to get the gas to the pump. Or is there a way, do we have a hose running from the pump?

PAT: To get a gas from the moon to here?

It's a pipeline. It's a pipeline from the moon.
She has been representing her district in Houston, Texas, for over 30 years. It's -- wow. She should never talk about space, ever again. Or anything else, for that matter.

GLENN: But definitely not space.

PAT: She was at NASA, and asked them while she was doing a tour of NASA, about whether or not you could still see the American flag that was planted on Mars. That was the -- like late '90s or early 2000s.

GLENN: We didn't plant one.

PAT: No, we didn't.

GLENN: We've never been -- wait a minute. That's new. I knew we didn't bring a flag.

PAT: Didn't bring a flag. God forbid. We forgot the flag, and then we forgot to put the human on Mars. So, yeah. There was no human on Mars.

GLENN: Right. We forgot to put the human on board too. Who was responsible for that?

PAT: In years.

GLENN: We landed a ship down there. And nobody was on board.

PAT: Pathetic.

GLENN: Did it slip into the gas?

PAT: No. Not on Mars. What are you, stupid?

PAT: Not on Mars. It's the moon that's gas.

GLENN: Right. Mars is cheese.
How do you get that butt stupid?

PAT: I don't know. I really don't know.

GLENN: Seriously. How could you -- because if you were sitting in a meeting. Now, imagine this.


You've been to meetings where you're like, this person is a moron. But you're doing work. There's something that you have to -- I just -- you just have to plow through it. You have to get through it. You're selling this person, something. Whatever it is, you're doing for a living.

And you're sitting in that meeting. And they say something stipend. And you just have to go.

PAT: Hmm, yeah. Huh.

GLENN: Huh. And you just move on, right?

PAT: Yeah. Yeah.

GLENN: I don't think I would have the human restraint.

PAT: No. No way.

GLENN: To sit in a room, and have her say, and, you know, that's the full circle. And it's mainly gas. I don't -- I don't think I could do it. I think this is a really -- don't do this, kids. Because Jesus would not have done this. But I'm telling you, I probably would have. I probably would have played with her like a mouse and a cat. I probably have been like, wow. Really? Gas? What kind of gas is that? I think I would have --

PAT: That is such that you can land on it, and live there? I would like to know. Yeah.

GLENN: Yeah. And so this gas, does it have any air in it? Or is it just oxygen?

PAT: Or is it like a -- like a really hard gas, like a rock gas? Sort of thing. Is it that?

GLENN: Well, I know we brought some dust back. So we know it's a dusty gas. Oh, I couldn't do it.

PAT: Wow. That is --

GLENN: Speaking of representatives in Houston. Let me give you this. This is from the black lawyer's podcast. Which I listened to all the time.

This is Texas Democrat representative jasmine Crockett.

PAT: She is really good too.

GLENN: Is she?

PAT: Yeah.

GLENN: She is suggesting now that black Americans shouldn't necessarily have to pay any taxes. Here she is.

VOICE: Just this past week, I don't remember, which celebrity. But it was actually a celebrity.

And I said, I don't know that it's necessarily a bad idea. I would have to think through it a lot. One of the things that they propose is black folk not have to pay taxes for a certain amount of time, because then again, that puts money back into your pocket.

But at the same time, it may not be as objectionable to some people about actually giving out dollars. But obviously, you start dealing with the tax brackets, and things like that. And that's one of the reasons that we argue, that reparations made sense.

PAT: Uh-huh. That's powerful. Isn't that a powerful point?

GLENN: I so want to ask her about the moon.

Congress Will Allow the FBI to SPY on YOU, But Not THEM?!

Congress Will Allow the FBI to SPY on YOU, But Not THEM?!

Congress is voting on whether to re-authorize FISA Section 702, which would allow the FBI to secretly spy on Americans without warrants. Glenn speaks to 3 congressmen who are leading the charge to prevent this. First, Rep. Chip Roy accuses House Speaker Mike Johnson of standing in the way of an amendment to force the FBI to obtain warrants before spying on U.S. citizens. Then, Rep. Thomas Massie lays out the "biggest red flag" he's seen: “There’s 2 carve-outs in here for congressmen…Only if you’re a Senator or US Representative do they have to notify you” if they’re spying on you without a warrant. And lastly, Rep. Warren Davidson explains his his “Fourth Amendment is Not For Sale” amendment, which would put an end to this shady practice.


Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: House Republicans are divided. I don't know how they're divided on this.

Read the Constitution. Where do you find in the Constitution warrants, Pat?

PAT: Well, you have the Fourth Amendment. For instance.

GLENN: Which is?

PAT: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated.

And no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause. Supported by oath or ampliation.

GLENN: So wait. Wait. Wait.

That's the Fourth Amendment. What does that mean?

The reason why this was written in, is because the king used to issue general warrants. And that meant Pat Gray, there's something wrong with him. Go find it. And they could look into anything.

They could go into your house, go through all of your papers. Where a warrant, now, our kind of warrant has to be sworn out. By the police and somebody else, you know, somebody tips them off.

And they say, look, I know he robbed somebody, or he killed somebody. And he's keeping their necklace in their house.

It's in his safe, in his wall, and in his bedroom. They go to the judge, and the judge says, really?

And listens to all of it. And he's supposed to be skeptical and protect your right to privacy.

But if they have enough evidence to make the judge go, I think you're right. He did.

Then he issues that specific warrant. They can't just go into your business. And everything else.

And just look through stuff.

They have to know what they're looking for, and generally, where it is.

PAT: And if they find something else, that incriminates them on some other issue. You can't use it.

GLENN: You can't use it, okay?

That's the Fourth Amendment. This is where we get warrants. This is why you can't just stop people in the streets, and search them.


This is why America doesn't say, papers please. You can't do that! Because of the Fourth Amendment. Now, we were all really drunk and stupid, when we passed the Patriot Act. And in the Patriot Act, it has Section 702.

And it's the foreign intelligence surveillance act.

And we ail talked about it, at the time. And we all trusted our government, at the time.

Strangely, except for actual liberals, which I don't think exist anymore.

And they were the ones that were saying, tonight. Don't do this.

This -- this will -- they will scoop Americans up into this.

PAT: And we said at the time, eh, that's fine. It's not going to happen. Because I was for it, at the very beginning.

A few weeks into it, I was like, oh, wait. It's going to be a problem.

I remember thinking, all they have to do is just change the meaning of terrorist. If they -- if they decide a group of Americans are terrorists, we're done.

And that's exactly what they've done now.

So what happens is, they -- they get a warrantless surveillance of foreigners.

We don't have to have a warrant on foreigners.

So they go to the FISA court, and they say, look, we're going to listen to these people.

And they don't need a warrant. And they go and they listen to those people.

The problem is: It's a giant chain.

That person, if that person is foreign, and he calls somebody here in America, then that person is tracked.

And everyone else that he talks to. And everyone else that they talk to.

And so on. And so on.

Do you remember the old -- you know, the shampoo commercial?

And so on. And so on. And it kept dividing itself, until the whole screen was just nothing, but faces.

That's exactly what is happening. And they are scooping up all kinds of information on you. That doesn't have anything to do, with terror overseas.

This has got to stop. You know, when they -- when they built, after 9/11, they built the visitor's center of Washington, DC.

What you don't know, is -- or may not know.

Is underneath the visitor's center, we don't even know how many floors, there are.

Underneath that.

It's all top secret.

Your -- some of your senators and some of your Congressmen can't even get into the floors. They're top secret, because they're FISA courts.

We know now, that the FISA courts are completely corrupt. We know that the FBI is changing the facts, when they go to the court.

They're changing -- they've actually changed, sworn testimony. And no one is punished for it.

We cannot allow section 702 to pass.

Now, there is a -- an amendment to the bill. That has been suggested.

But the bill is coming up, this week. The G.O.P. representative Laura Lee of Florida, is the one who has put the amendment in.

Titled reforming intelligence and securing America act. It would reauthorize section 702 of FISA for five years.

And aims to impose a series of reforms. I don't believe any of the reforms.

I don't believe those will ever happen. We have given the keys to everything about us.

To the government. And the government has turned hostile on many Americans.

So, what do we do? We have Chip on yet?

CHIP: We passed a rollout committee yesterday, that would include -- that had a rule that said we will have a vote on a warrant. The problem is that the Speaker of the House, has now come out against the warrant amendment. That's a problem. Because the Speaker has pit his finger on the scale to shift the conversation. And to say publicly, we don't need the warrant.

GLENN: What the hell is wrong with this guy?

CHIP: Well, that's for another conversation. For the purpose of today, when we go to the floor, in an hour and 40 minutes, we're bringing to the floor under a bill that has an amendment to add the Fourth Amendment protection, the warrant protection that we could still pass, but seems like we won't. Because the speaker has put his finger on the scales.

So now since the speaker has done that, we now have to decide, whether or not we stop the whole process by killing the rule.

And then force it to be only reauthorized under its current form.

Which, of course, still wouldn't give us the protection of the warrant.


CHIP: But our concern is, there are other amendments in this, that would expand FISA in the name of going after --

GLENN: Oh, my gosh.

CHIP: Right. And so, for example, there is well-intended legislation, to go after. To be able to collect data. Collect information. Relative to drug trafficking like fentanyl.

The problem is, in the definition, about precursors, and other stuff. It expands FISA. Expands the amount of information they were collecting. You could be about talking about an American citizen, buying, you know, whatever. Cold medicine.

That's the precursor for making meth.

So we're all alarmed, that it's expanding FISA, and we're trying to run all these pieces to ground.

Meanwhile, that's all stuff that's been added to it. You know, by the leadership.

So now, we're trying to figure out, what we do. With a rule here at noon.

We are conflicted because of the current regime, doesn't have the Fourth Amendment warrant, you know, a language in there.

Obviously, we still have protections in American citizens under the Constitution. But if you don't put this provision in place, it's not as strong in terms of what we're trying to do to protect American citizens.

THOMAS: The biggest red flag in this. And I spent 15 minutes last night. The rules committee, going back and forth to the chairman of the Intel committee. We finally got him to admit, this is inside his bill. A carve-out for congressmen. I don't know if Chip mentioned it.

GLENN: No. He didn't.

THOMAS: Okay. They are trying to tell you, they have 53 reforms in here that will take care of all the problems. Well, the congressman who are voting for this aren't convinced, because they get a carve-out. There's two carve-outs here for congressmen.

Number one, the FBI is surveilling you, using FISA. They're going into this database, and searching with your name and your congressman. And they're ostensibly doing it for your own good.

Because they're worried about foreign actors. They have to notify you.

Only if you're a congressman. Only if you're a senator or US representative.

Do they have to notify you. And I asked, why did they put that in there? They were afraid of political bias.

What about school boards? Aren't you afraid of political bias there? And oh, by the way, does this apply to candidates, or just incumbent congressmen? It only applies to incumbent congressmen. How special is that?

So my solution here is, get a warrant. And then you don't have to put out carve-outs for congressmen.

GLENN: Correct.

THOMAS: And here's what's especially despicable about the carve-out. That's to get congressmen's votes. There's at least one Congressman we know -- Darin LaHood. He's said this publicly. He's on the Intel community, and he was being spied on by the Intel community.

He's responsible for their oversight. So he was worried enough about this. That he insisted, there would be some provision. Now, his concern is legitimate.

I'm not tingeing him, per se.

GLENN: No. I know.

THOMAS: For asking for this. It should be solved for everybody, not just congressmen.

GLENN: Thank you. So tell us what your amendment actually will do.

WARREN: Okay. So the amendment we have is called the Fourth Amendment is not for sale. So one of the most important ones in the bill is to get a warrant.

And let's go back in the fall. The base tax had getting a warrant, and the -- what is the Fourth Amendment not for sale do?

It prevents the federal government from buying data from data brokers that they would otherwise have to get a warrant for a subpoena to obtain. So it was in the data broker loophole. So it was in the base text. The Speaker essentially works with the Intel committee to gut the bill, of some of these important provisions.

And at least the warrant requirement is going to be able to be offered as an amendment. But he basically strips the Fourth Amendment is not for sale, from even getting a vote.

And part of the reason, I still remember, you know, a long time member of Congress, again, Walter Jones, asked him one time when a bill was popular in the House. Passed with like 420 some votes.

Only seven no votes. Would help solve a problem. Be popular with the public. Why in the world won't the Senate pick this up?

And he said, well, I hate to be cynical. But probably because it would pass. And why would they strip this out?

Well, because Dick Durbin, who is the Chairman of Judiciary in the Senate has a similar bill in the Senate, and Chuck Schumer is a cosponsor.

So this is an issue that does not break on party lines. When it was offered as a standalone bill in the Judiciary Committee last summer, it passed 36 to one through the committee. So how often did Jim Jordan and Jerry Nadler agree on something? Pretty rare.

But this is one that at least, this isn't a total party line issue like so many other things are.

GLENN: So they're stripping it out.

And he's actually going around the rules to make sure that it's -- that it never makes it to the floor, is it he not?

WARREN: Well, it doesn't make it as part of this debate. He has offered to give us a vote at a later time. But this is the problem.

If it's not attached to something that has passed like FISA. Well, of course, the administration wants to keep spying on Americans. They have already said that. So if there was a way to pass it through the House -- and even if there is a way to pass it through the Senate. The administration, you know, simply would veto it.

That's why it should be part of the FISA debate. That's why the judiciary committee had it as part of the base text of the bill, that essentially the Speaker reworked.

GLENN: So I'm hoping that most of the people that are hearing your voice right now, are the kind of people that maybe used to say. Well, I don't have anything to worry about.

Because I'm not doing anything illegal.

And realize now, the government has turned hostile towards American citizens.

And all of the information that is out there, it's very dangerous for individuals.

Tell me what -- why the average person should care. Why does this matter?

You know, to those people who are not breaking the law, et cetera, et cetera?

WARREN: Well, the barbecue to the founding of the country, and why was the revolution ticked off. One of the major causes according to John Adam was the general warrant stop the king. King George was basically saying, well, we're looking for bad people. So under the guise of looking for bad people, we will just come and rummage through your personal effects. And, you know, in the concept of privacy.

Well, the Fourth Amendment doesn't say, well, if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear.

It says that as an American, you have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

That without probable cause, and they can't search your stuff, and with probable cause, they have to get a warrant. Even for really bad people.

Even to go after pedophiles. You have to get a warrant. And that's the way. The foreign surveillance act, is designed to collect intelligence on foreigners. That part is broadly supported.

It's been very effective. We want to stop threats to our country. But when it comes to citizens, there's a reason there's no Domestic Surveillance Act. It's because the Fourth Amendment says that we have an expectation of privacy.

And we have to defend that. It's probably the most infringed part of the Bill of Rights at this point.

GLENN: So what is the most effective thing people can do today?

WARREN: Call their member of Congress. Tell them to demand that their number of votes are for a warrant requirement. And ask them to say, we should be voting on the Fourth Amendment is not for sale.

The government should not be circumventing the warrant requirement, to buy data, that they would otherwise get a warrant. They don't want the warrant requirement in the first place. But in the event, that should pass, in a lot of ways, they're saying, well, it's not as consequential. Because we could just buy our ways around it.