RADIOApril 14, 2025

Colossal CEO: Did China's Human Experiments Make the CIA Fund Dire Wolves?

Why did Colossal Biosciences choose to bring back the dire wolf first, instead of the woolly mammoth or dodo bird? And why is does the CIA invest in them? Glenn speaks with Colossal co-founder and CEO Ben Lamm, who explains the dire wolf choice and makes the case that the U.S. must lead in “synthetic biology” technology before China does. Unlike Colossal, which Lamm says is NOT experimenting on humans or even primates, China has already admitted that it’s trying to make smarter humans. So, what kind of experiments is it doing in secret? Lamm also addresses the names of the 2 male dire wolves – Romulus and Remus – and what extinct animal the company plans to bring back next.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Ben Lamm, Colossal cofounder CEO. Welcome to the program.

BEN: Hey, thanks for having me back, Glenn. It's good to talk to you.

GLENN: You bet. It's good to talk to you. First of all, I have to show you this picture of George R.R. Martin with the dire wolf. I mean, that's brilliant. That's really brilliant.

BEN: George R.R. Martin, you know, made dire wolves popular in pop culture. Many people think they're a myth. But, you know, they were an American wolf.

They were the largest, strongest American wolf.

You know, we got challenged, you know, working on the mammoth, the Tasmanian tiger, and the dodo, but we got challenged by some of our indigenous partners and the government and a few others. Saying, why aren't you working first on an American species?

Like, why aren't you prioritizing that?

We got a lot of pressure and feedback.

When we got close to it, we were like, well, if we don't bring George R.R. Martin in, he's kind of mean. He's the guy who made them the most popular.

GLENN: You know, it kills me -- I did the same thing. I saw the video of the wolves howling and stuff, and little babies.

And I'm like, oh, they're so cute. They're an apex predator, been gone now for 10,000 years.

Why bring them back?

STEPHEN: So Colossal is a de-extinction and preservation company. Right?

And so we will lose up to 50 percent of biodiversity between now and 2050. And so we need new tools in the fight. Right? We think it's better to have the extinction tool kit and not need it, than not have the extinction toolkit and need it.

And so we're working on all these species. And we started having meetings with MHA Nation, one of the largest tribal groups here in the United States. And they started to give it the feedback that we need to do more for wolf conservation. Not enough going on in wolf conservation. It would be amazing if we could work on something like the great wolf.

So then they started filing it from their oral traditions, that they believe, that the great wolf was the dire wolf. I kind of sat with you -- again, the dire wolf?

So we had these great conversations, and then a few months later, we were in North Carolina.

And we learned that the most endangered wolf in the world, is the American wolf!

The red wolf, there's 15 left.

When you think about Americana, you think about the bison, you think about the bald eagle, and you think about wolves.

It would be a travesty to lose these.

GLENN: Yeah, but wait. But wait, wait, wait.

I mean, I live in -- for half the year in a place that has mountain lions and wolves.

They're both very, very important to have.

BEN: Oh, yeah.

GLENN: But they're also spooky as hell.

BEN: Yeah.

GLENN: You're not talking about -- you're not talking about preserving that species.

You just introduced a species that's been gone for 10,000 years!

BEN: Yeah. We have. And they are in a secure, expansive ecological reserve in the north.

And if they ever go back into the wild. It would be in collaboration with the government as well as some of the tribes. And they would go back on secure private lands. They are to be dire wolves.

I think you're not going to be walking down the street, worried about dire wolves.

GLENN: Yeah. Well, I just know, last time, the government got involved with wolves, it was a Yellowstone, and that didn't work out well for anybody.

BEN: You know, rewilding -- rewilding works, as long as it's done thoughtfully and managed. And the problem is, is sometimes people just get so overzealous on certain sides of the table, that they just go out and buck the patriarchy.

It really needs to be studied. It really needs to be managed. It needs to be thoughtfully taken out. But a lot of times people don't realize that, and they just get overzealous. Right?

And they politicize it.

At the end of the day, losing biodiversity, it should be a bipartisan -- and we really need to save these animals. And so by doing what we're doing, Glenn, we're actually building technology to save animals.

And so we were actually able to clone.

No one is talking about this. This is crazy. We are actually able to clone four red wolves, with more genetic diversity than the existing 15 that are still left in the wild.

That's a 25 percent bump in genetic diversity, that has been gone, you know, for tens -- you know, for over a decade.

GLENN: Okay. So, I mean, you -- you describe your company.

I'm sorry. I love the technology. I love what you're doing. I love the way you think.

It's also terrifying.

BEN: I know. We talk a lot about it.

The last time I talked to you. You asked about the CIA.

But, you know, we fall into a category called synthetic biology.

Right? So being able to use AI in software, as well as able to edit and rewrite genomes, is really critical technology.

It's as important technology as space technology. And other deindustrialized technologies.

And our adversaries are advancing. And we are trying --

GLENN: Let me. Because I -- this is -- like everything now, especially with AI. Any of this -- CRISPR. All of this technology.

You can't stop it. You can't put it back in the bottle. Because others are doing it.

BEN: Correct.

GLENN: What China is doing with this. Trying to breed smarter humans. Stronger humans.

You know, fighters. I mean, it's -- the stuff of Nazi movies.

BEN: That's actually what they said publicly.

So everything you're saying, is what they said publicly.

They said that the sequencing, many humans as possible.

They use COVID as this ruse to pull in as many things as possible. Sequencing them.

Then they say, they are looking for the genes that are making the smartest people. And we are going to engineer people.

That's not even crazy, concerned conspiracies.

They have said that out loud. So what have they not said out loud?

GLENN: Right. Any idea what they haven't said out loud?

BEN: I mean, if you think about what colossal is trying to do, right? We're trying to at least do it.

We don't do anything with humans. Even if we work with the federal government. We have this moratorium, that we're not working with humans. Only animals. We're working -- nonhuman primates. We're only working on species, but we are going to these technologies, and that application to humans, right?

And we are understanding from like a 72,000-year-old scull, what made a dire wolf bigger and stronger. And had a bigger jaw. And stronger muscles. And denser bones. We can now understand that with our technology. And engineer that into our -- being the gray wolf. Right?

So think about that same type of data, applied to humans. Right?

I think you can look at it, as adversarial countries. Advancing in technologies. In a way where they can look at, how can we enhance humans?

For us, we as an American company. That works very closely with the federal government. The Secretary of Interior just endorsed our work. And we work very closely with the Department of Interior.

GLENN: It's not necessarily an endorsement on my audience lines. You should deemphasize that with my audience. Because that's not a good thing.

BEN: It's not what anyone likes.

GLENN: Okay. All right. Yeah. Good for you. Good for you. Yeah.

BEN: I think it's important for us to always be -- Colossal, we're pretty bipartisan. We work with both sides. But I do think it's important to be transparent when things happen. And I think that us as America has to lead in synthetic biology. And Colossal is one of the most --

GLENN: So what is the difference between directed evolution and playing God?

BEN: It's a great question. You asked me this last time, right? I think that we as humans play God quite a bit, right? So I will look at it from an ecosystems perspective. When we overfish the ocean or we cut too much down of the rain forest, we are playing God at some level. When we eradicate species. But now we have these tools and technology that we can bio bank species, protect them, and even bring them back. And I think this will be even helpful for how we balance progress. As well as how we balance protection.

And I think that we need these tools now more than ever. Because we can lose up to 50 percent of all life on earth, between now and 2050, that's the current trend line.

GLENN: So, you know, AI is dangerous.
It's glorious. And horrifying at the same time.

Just depends on, you know, who is using it. And how that thing goes.

And it's judge Elon Musk says, we have to have -- we have to have the singularity, as -- as defined as human computer interface.

So we -- we merge as one.

That's not -- that's something of sci-fi movies.

Do you believe that the genetic editing tech, that you are helping to design, is going to be transferred to humans.

Is there a time that you think, oh, well, that probably has to?

BEN: I think that we will be able to look -- one of the biggest things that Colossal works on is what's called multi-splice editing. Being able to edit multiple parts of the genome, at the exact same time.

Right? And so that's part of what we really, really need to continue to advance these. Most in deep states, specifically one that drives, you know, predispositions to cancer are multi-genic in nature. Right?

So for us, I think it's very, very important to advance those technologies, so that you probably about sickle cell anemia, whether it's CRISPR tools and technologies that are being used to do a single knockout.

But most genes, or most of these are multi-genic in nature.

You have to be able to edit multi-part of the genome.

I think a lot of our technologies will be beneficial long-term, to help us cure any inherent -- that's a good thing!

GLENN: How much of this is AI-driven?

STEPHEN: I think 30 percent of our work, what would be possible without AI.

GLENN: And imagine that number is growing exponentially. I mean, I know our --

BEN: Exponentially -- exponentially.

GLENN: You know, you name the dire wolves Romulus and Remus, and I'm not a mythology expert, but I do know, abandoned at birth, raised by wolves, found in Rome. Yada, yada, yada, but didn't Romulus also kill Remus.

BEN: Yeah. Romulus. Romulus is the big one. They do love each other. So we're hoping that not all of history will repeat itself, right? So we're -- we're pretty -- we're pretty bullish on, it will work out better this round.

GLENN: Okay. Good. Good. So am I, I guess. I mean, I guess I'm rooting for that. All of us are together on that one.

That's a great goal to have.

BEN: We're all rooting for the fall of Rome.

GLENN: What is the next thing that you talk about that we'll tell the world about some day?

BEN: Yeah. So we're making a lot of progress. I think we're on the very cusp of a pretty big breakthrough for the dodo project. Right?

Talk about dire wolves and dodos. You know, we made some updates on the Tasmanian tiger. And other --

GLENN: Can we slow down on the apex predators, just a little bit?

BEN: They're very important. I mean, look, elephants kill more people than wolves. There are -- you have five wolf attacks confirmed in the last 100 years. You have a higher probability of getting struck by lightning, while getting eaten by a shark, than getting attacked by a wolf.

GLENN: No, I know that, but have you ever been in the wild?

BEN: I have been, yeah.

GLENN: The wolf walks up? Terrifying.

BEN: I've actually never been -- I've been very close to wolves, in certain ecological preserves.

GLENN: Yeah, no. I've been on my own land, and a wolf walks out from the bushes, and you're like, oh, dear God. Because they are spooky.

BEN: Yeah. In that way. It's definitely spooky, right?

Mountain lions and wolves personally. But I saw a mountain lion first.

The scariest thing I ever saw was, I was actually in Cape Tribulation in Australia once, and a Castlereagh bird walking out, and that seemed like a living velociraptor. And it was just me.

I was by myself. And I was like, I'm going to die. They are very aggressive.

They're very hard to -- look, living with nature is what we've got. Right? We have to figure out how we do that. In our next species, we probably have a big update on, is the dodo. We're very close to a fundamental step in the dodo resurrection. We don't have dodos. We haven't for a long time, but I do think we're pretty close to a fundamental step --

GLENN: Okay. One last thing. You say that you are trying to help species survive. Because we are going to lose all these species.

Why are you bringing things back like the dire wolves?

Humans didn't have anything to do with the extinction. Why are you bringing those back?

BEN: Well, so anthropologic effects, if you can look at kind of the rapid, you know, Younger Dryas cooling period. Also, compared globally, not just in America, of the rise of anthropologic effects. Early humans did drive a lot of the extinction of Megaphonics here in the United States, as well as globally.

I do think there's a lot of data that is starting to suggest, some of the affects -- of the Dryas Cooling Period. That was a rapid period. That may have had meteorological effects that affected it, right?

So for us, we want to build these. We want to use these technologies, to bring back these species.

So that we can study them.

We can look to re-wild them, if it makes sense. And also pair them to build technology for wolves, right? In the case of the dire wolf. In the case of the mammoth.

And one of the things that no one really talks about is every single week, we get dozens of letters from parents and kids, and pictures of little woolly mammoths and dodos. Hopefully now dire wolves. And people are telling us and teachers are telling us, that their kids are excited about science now.

Right?

And people are getting more and more excited about science. And so if you ask a teacher or a parent about colossal, many of them know.

More teachers than parents know, because kids are telling them in the classroom. And I think we need science now more than ever.

And I think kids are excited about science, through the extinction, while also helping conservation is a really good thing.

Ben, there is no better spokesperson for Colossal, than you. Colossal cofounder and CEO, Ben Lamm. Thanks, Ben, for being on. I appreciate it, God bless.

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

Are Epstein's "Blackmail Videos" Being Used for Leverage RIGHT NOW?

What was Jeffrey Epstein's operation all about. If he was at the center of a massive blackmail operation to compromise those in positions of power, who is in possession of that information now? Glenn Beck and ATF Whistleblower John Dodson analyze the details of this situation and give their thoughts on what is the most likely reality surrounding Epstein.

Watch Glenn Beck's FULL Interview with ATF Whistleblower John Dodson HERE

WARNING: How America Elects a Socialist President in 2028 | Glenn TV | Ep 444

The rise of Zohran Mamdani, the 33-year-old socialist who just won the Democratic primary for mayor, is not just a political earthquake shaking New York City — it’s a warning for the rest of America. Backed by Bernie Sanders, AOC, and the Democratic Socialists of America, Mamdani promises free everything, to tax the rich, and to dismantle capitalism. There’s nothing new about this tired strategy, but the media is propping him up as a new political genius. And with Democrat leaders lining up behind him, it’s clear: This radicalism isn’t fringe anymore. It’s the Democratic Party’s future. Mamdani’s rise is part of a larger movement that’s rewriting America’s values. Glenn Beck explains how New York is the prototype for the Left’s socialist makeover of America. Victor Davis Hanson, senior fellow at the Hoover Institution at Standford, gives a terrifying prediction on Mamdani’s mayoral race chances and warns the revolution is coming for mainstream Democrats. He also dives into MAGA’s frustration with the Trump administration's handling of the Epstein files.

INSIDE Trump’s soul: How a bullet changed his heart forever

“I have a new purpose,” then-candidate Donald Trump told reporter Salena Zito after surviving the assassination attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania. Salena joins Glenn Beck to reveal what Trump told her about God, his purpose in life, and why he really said, “Fight! Fight! Fight!”, as she details in her new book, “Butler: The Untold Story of the Near Assassination of Donald Trump and the Fight for America's Heartland”.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Salena, congratulations on your book. It is so good.

Just started reading it. Or listening to it, last night.

And I wish you would have -- I wish you would have read it. But, you know, the lady you have reading it is really good.

I just enjoy the way you tell stories.

The writing of this is the best explanation on who Trump supporters are. That I think I've ever read, from anybody.

It's really good.

And the description of your experience there at the edge of the stage with Donald Trump is pretty remarkable as well. Welcome to the program.

SALENA: Thank you, Glenn. Thank you so much for having me.

You know, I was thinking about this, as I was ready to come on. You and I have been along for this ride forever. For what?

Since 2006? 2005?

Like 20 years, right?

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah.

SALENA: And I've been chronicling the American people for probably ten more years, before that. And it's really remarkable to me, as watching how this coalition has grown. Right?

And watching how people have the -- have become more aspirational.

And that's -- and that is what the conservative populist coalition is, right?

It is the aspirations of many, but the celebration of the individual.

And chronicling them, yeah. Has been -- has been, a great honor.

GLENN: You know, I was thinking about this yesterday, when -- when Elon Musk said he was starting another party.

And somebody asked me, well, isn't he doing what the Tea Party tried to do?

No. The Tea Party was not going to start a new party.

It was to -- you know, it was to coerce and convince the Republican Party to do the right thing. And it worked in many ways. It didn't accomplish what we hoped.

But it did accomplish a lot of things.

Donald Trump is a result of the Tea Party.

I truly believe that. And a lot of the people that were -- right?

Were with Donald Trump, are the people that were with the Tea Party.

SALENA: That's absolutely right.

So that was the inception.

So American politics has always had movements, that have been just outside of a party. Or within a party.

That galvanize and broaden the coalition. Right? They don't take away. Or walk away, and become another party.

If anything, if there is a third party out there, it's almost a Republican Party.

Because it has changed in so many viable and meaningful ways. And the Tea Party didn't go away. It strengthened and broadened the Republican Party. Because these weren't just Republicans that became part of this party.

It was independents. It was Democrats.

And just unhappy with the establishment Republicans. And unhappy with Democrats.

And that -- that movement is what we -- what I see today.

What I see every day. What I saw that day, in butler, when I showed I happen at that rally.

As I do, so many rallies, you know, throughout my career. And that one was riveting and changed everything.

GLENN: You made a great case in the opening chapter. You talk about how things were going for Donald Trump.

And how this moment really did change everything for Donald Trump.

Changed the trajectory, changed the mood.

I mean, Elon Musk was not on the Trump train, until this.

SALENA: Yeah.

GLENN: Moment. What do I -- what changed? How -- how did that work?

And -- and I contend, that we would have much more profound change, had the media actually done their job and reported this the way it really was. Pragmatism

SALENA: You know, and people will find this in the book. I'm laying on the ground with an agent on top of me.

I'm 4 feet away from the president.

And there's -- there's notices coming up on my phone. Saying, he was hit by broken glass.

And to this take, that remains part of this sibling culture, in American politics.

Because reporters were -- were so anxious to -- to right what they believed happened.

As opposed to what happened.

And it's been a continual frustration of mine, as a reporter, who is on the ground, all the time.

And I'll tell you, what changed in that moment.

And I say a nuance, and I believe nuance is dead in American journalism.

But it was a nuance and it was a powerful conversation, that I had with President Trump, the next day. He called me the next morning.

But it's a powerful conversation I had with him, just two weeks ago.

When he made this decision to say, fight, fight, fight.

People have put in their heads, why they think he said it. But he told me why he said that. And he said, Salena, in that moment, I was not Donald Trump the man. I was a former president. I was quite possibly going to be president again.

And I had an obligation to the country, and to the office that I have served in, to project strength. To project resolve.

To project that we will not be defeated.

And it's sort of like a symbolic eagle, that is always -- you know, that symbol that we look at, when we think about our country.

He said, that's why I said that. I didn't want the people behind me panicking. I didn't want the people watching, panicking.

I had to show strength. And it's that nuance -- that I think people really picked up on.

And galvanized people.

GLENN: So he told me, when he was laying down on the stage.

And you can hear him. Let me get up. Let me get up.

I've got to get up.

He told me, as I was laying on the stage. I asked him, what were you thinking? What was going through your head? Now, Salena, I don't know about you.

But with me. It would be like, how do I get off the stage? My first was survival.

He said, what was going on through his mind was, you're not pathetic. This is pathetic.

You're not afraid. Get up.

Get up.

And so is that what informed his fight, fight, fight, of that by the time that he's standing up, he's thinking, I'm a symbol? Or do you think he was thinking, I'm a symbol, this looks pathetic. It makes you look weak.

Stand up. How do you think that actually happened?

SALENA: He thinks, and we just talked about this weeks ago. He -- you know, and this is something that he's really thought about.

Right? You know, he's gone over and over and over. And also, purpose and God. Right? These are things that have lingered with him.

You know, he -- he thought, yes.

He did think, it was pathetic that he was on the ground. But he wasn't thinking about, I'm Donald Trump. It's pathetic.

He's thinking, my country is symbolically on the ground. I need to get up, and I need to show that my country is strong.

That our country is resolute.

And I need people to see that.

We can't go on looking like pathetic.

Right?

And I think that then goes to that image of Biden.

GLENN: You have been with so many presidents.

How many presidents do you think that you've personally been with, would have thought that and reacted that way?

SALENA: Probably only Reagan. Reagan would have. Reagan probably would have thought that.

And if you remember how he was out like standing outside.

You know, waving out the window. Right?

After he was shot.

GLENN: At the hospital, right.

SALENA: Had he not been knocked out, unconscious, you know, he probably would have done the same thing.

Because he was someone who deeply believed in American exceptionalism.

And American exceptionalism does not go lay on the ground.

GLENN: And the symbol.

Right. The symbol of the presidency.

SALENA: Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that affects him today.

GLENN: So let me go back to God.

Because you talked to him the next day. And your book Butler.

He calls you up.

I love the fact that your parents would be ashamed of you. On what you said to him.

The language you used. That you just have to read the book.

It's just a great part.

But he calls you the next morning. And wants to know if you're okay.

And you -- you then start talking to him, about God.

And I was -- I was thinking about this, as I was listening to it. You know, Lincoln said, I wasn't -- I wasn't a Christian.

Even though, he was.

I wasn't a Christian, when I was elected. I wasn't a Christian when my son died.

I became a Christian at Gettysburg.

Is -- is -- I mean, I believe Donald Trump always believes in God, et cetera, et cetera.

Do you think there was a real profound change at Butler with him?

SALENA: Absolutely. You know, he called me seven times that day. Seven times, the take after seven.

GLENN: Crazy.

SALENA: Talked about. And I think he was looking for someone that he knew, that was there. And to try to sort it out.

Right? And I let him do most of the talking. I didn't pressure him.

At all. I believed that he was having -- you know, he was struggling. And he needed to just talk. And I believed my purpose was to listen.

Right? I know other reporters would have handled it differently. And that's okay. That's not the kind of reporter that I am.

And I myself was having my own like, why didn't I die?

Right?

Because it went right over my head.

And -- and so I -- he had the conversation about God.

He's funny. I thought it was the biggest mosquito in the world that hit me.

But he had talked profoundly about purpose. You know, and God.

And how God was in that moment.

It --

GLENN: I love the way you -- in the book, I love the way you said that as he's kind of working it out in his own he head.

He was like, you know, I -- I -- I always knew that there was some sort of, you know -- that God was present.

He said, but now that this has happened.

I look back at all of the trials.

All of the tribulations. Literally, the trials.

All of the things that have happened. And he's like, I realized God was there the whole time.

SALENA: Yes. He does. And it's fascinating to have been that witness to history, to have those conversations with him. Because I'm telling you. And y'all know, I can talk. I didn't say much of anything.

I just -- I just listened. I felt that was my purpose, in that moment.

To give him that space, to work it out.

I'm someone that is, you know, believes in God.

I'm Catholic. I followed my faith.

And -- and so, I thought, well, this is why God put me here. Right?

And to -- to have that -- to hear him talk about purpose, to hear him say, Salena. Why did I put a chart down?

I'm like, sir. I don't know. I thought you were Ross Perot for a second.

He never has a chart. And he laughed. And then he said, why did I put that chart down?

By that term, I never turned my head away from people at the rally. That's true.

That relationship is very transactional. It's very -- they feed off of each other.

It's a very emotive moment when you attend a rally. Because he has a way of talking at a rally. That you believe that you are seeing.

And he said, and I never turn my head away.

I never turn my head away.

Why did I turn my head away?

I don't remember consciously thinking about turning my head away. And then he says to me, that was God, wasn't it?

Yes, sir. It was. It was God.

And he said, that's -- that's why I have a new purpose.

And so, Glenn. I think it's important, when you look at the breadth of what has happened, since he was sworn in.

You see that purpose, every day.

He doesn't let up.

He continues going.

And it brings back to the beginning of the book.

Where you find out, that there was another president that was shot at in Butler.

And that was George Washington. And how different the country would have been, had he died in that moment.

And now think about how different the country would be, had President Trump died in that moment. There would be --

GLENN: We're talking to -- we're talking to Salena Zito. About her new book called Butler. The assassination attempt on President Trump. And it is riveting.

And, you know, it is so good. I wish the press would read it. Because it really explains who we are, who Trump supporters are. Who are, you know, red staters. It is so good at that. She's the best at that.