In Biden’s newly released 2023 budget request, the president proposed new taxes on not only the income of America’s top earners, but possibly on their 'unrealized gains' as well. So, what exactly ARE 'unrealized gains' taxes? Carol Roth, author of ‘The War on Small Business’ and a financial expert, joins Glenn to explain how this type of tax is an unlawful RUSE by the federal government to STEAL property: ‘It’s a total disaster, it’s unconstitutional, and we have to push back on it’ Roth says…
Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors
GLENN: Carol Roth, I've got a lot to talk to you today. But I want to start with this 20 percent minimum income tax, on people that make over $100 million a year. Hi, Carol.
CARLY: Hi, Glenn. It's not even an income tax. It's a, quote, unquote, wealth tax. Which is an idea that is so bad, that nine countries in Europe abandoned it. I mean, imagine an economic policy being so bad, that Europe is like, yeah, you know what, we're out.
GLENN: So didn't -- didn't France try this recently? And it -- like, all of their wealthy people moved away.
CARLY: Yeah. The statistics were that between 2000 and 2012, 42,000 millionaires and -- had a mass exodus from France.
CARLY: So it basically drove all the people out. So, you know, if you have those means, capital is mobile. And you're not going to stick around when you have other options. And that was the catalyst for them being, another one of the countries that go, you know what, maybe this isn't such a great idea. And even though, it's still a long tail on it, they're still collecting a little bit of revenue that was grandfathered in, I would think around 2014, they said, were gone.
GLENN: Now, talk to me about -- so nobody has tried to move that number down. I'm concerned always, when they say, it's only going to hit these people. Taxes never do that in America.
CARLY: No. I mean, anything that is targeted at the billionaires, is really a ruse for them to get you to agree to it. Because, oh, well, why would I care for it to affect the billionaires? But, really, it's going to impact you. And that is the ruse. If you think about this is being tied to individual income, usually, if you're an upper tier individual income, you have very sophisticated tax work. You probably have trusts. You may have shell corporations. So I would imagine, there's probably going to be some loopholes. Well, it's not really individual income. It's a family trust. Or some way around it. But now you've agreed to it. Well, we've put it in on this. But we're going to move it down. We're going to move it down. You have to remember the Biden administration wants to hire 87,000 new IRS agents. I mean, that's not for going after the billionaires. That's for coming after you.
GLENN: So they not only want to do that. They got the funding, to do that in this -- in this last bill. So the really dangerous thing, that is in this wealth tax. Is a tax on unrealized gains. This is insanity. Absolute insanity. Can you explain it?
CARLY: Yeah. So unrealized gains, I would say, is not really a thing. We shouldn't normalize it. It's really a ruse to have unlawful seizure of personal property. So let's say, you buy a house, and you bought it for $100,000. And then in your neighborhood, another house sales for $200,000. They're going to say, well, you know, you -- all the houses in this neighborhood are -- they're worth about the same. So you have an unrealized gain of $100,000. We're going to tax you on that. So what do you do? You have to sell your house to pay the taxes. So take that analogy, then, and move it to the stock market. Most of these individuals, who are wealthy, are -- are still on papers. Because they own big pieces of companies, which the market has valued it at higher and higher levels. So on paper, their ownership looks big. But if all of a sudden, they have to now sell stakes in their company, that upends the entire market system. It basically nationalizes or socializes companies. It affects all of us, through pensions and 401(k), because of supply and demand in the market. If you have these big people, who are selling massive shares of their company. It will drive the prices down for everybody. It's an utter, total disaster. It's unconstitutional. And it's one of those things we have to push back on. Because like you said, if just say, it's just for the Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos' of the world. You're accepting a breach in principle, and then the game is over.
GLENN: And it won't be.
I mean, this is the way -- The Great Reset says, by 2030, now, think of this. You have to get people out of ownership in what is it -- eight years. Eight years. Two elections. You have to get people to own nothing. This is a way to do it. If you have unrealized taxes, on up realized income, meaning your house. Think about how often your house is worth today, if you wanted to sell it. Knowing that tomorrow, it could go down. And you lose money, if you didn't sell it. You just don't know where the top and the bottom is, of a market. But if you have to sell your house to be able to pay the taxes, for income that you didn't have. It was all on paper. You don't own houses. You put a lot of people out of their house.
CARLY: Yeah. It's all based on theory. Unfortunately, we already have something close to that in property taxes. This would just double and triple up on it.
CARLY: But, you know, it's anything that you know. Maybe your grandparent gave you an heirloom, a painting that's now worth a bunch of money. Like, what are you supposed to do? Oh, it's who there a million dollars, now I have to sell this family heirloom, so I can pay taxes for, what? I mean, this is the most un-American concept that you can possibly --
GLENN: This is what caused Robin Hood. I mean, this is the kind of thing, that was going on, in the adventures of Robin Hood. That's what the sheriff was doing.
They were doing unreasonable taxes. And then giving it to the state. Giving it to the king. And all of the people, that were in with the king.
I mean, we are starting to live in Nottingham.
GLENN: And the crazy thing, when someone talks about is this unrealized gain or this theoretical gain in value, they never talk about the unrealized losses.
CARLY: Talk about, you know, something is going down. Are you going to give back to me? Of course not. It never looks like that. Nobody ever wants to socialize the losses. They only want to participate in the gains. It's a one-way street. This is what happened, by the way, in Venezuela. They used this kind of populist language. And said, oh. These elites. They own everything. Let us take it over. Let us take over business. And you're all going to share in it. And obviously they went to the fifth biggest economy in the world, decades ago. To the state they're in today. This is the way in. And it is so dangerous, I cannot even -- even make it emphatic enough.
GLENN: It is truly amazing, that the president is suggesting this, and putting this in. And this is something that the Democrats would have been against, you know, ten years ago. It shows how far left this president and this administration has gone. And the tells me have gone.
CARLY: Absolutely. And even somebody like Janet Yellen, who has been a disaster at the Fed, and now at the Treasury. When this idea first circled around, she was going out and saying how great it was, trying to populate it. And it got a lot of pushback. And it kind of died for a little while. And now, you know, polls are down. So here it is again. Maybe we can distract everybody from all the other economic disasters. And inflation and high gas prices. By saying, we're going to go after the greedy billionaires. And hopefully, again, we'll get that same kind of pushback. And say, it's unreasonable. It's unconstitutional. And it just cannot happen.
GLENN: So let me switch topics. You wrote a great article. I think it came out last week. ESG advocates are killing the American dream.
Can you just go -- in the middle of it, you talk about a 60 Minute piece, where they're talking about -- or talking to the CEO of Tricon Residential. And this is happening everywhere. And nobody is really paying attention to it. And it is so dangerous.
CARLY: This is so infuriating, because the global elites who are pushing ESG, saying, we're doing this for the good of society. And that S, that social piece, we want to make that good for everybody. So these same banks and these financial institutions that have bought into the idea, that they will make decisions good for society. Are now funding companies that are competing for you, to buy houses. But we are underfunded -- or, excuse me, we are underbuilt in this country, by about four to 5 million houses, depending on who you ask. So there's already a supply/demand imbalance. But now you have these big financial institutions backing these folks, like the ones that are quoted in the 60-minute piece I interviewed there, as well as others that are publicly traded that are going in and buying 30,000, 40,000, 80,000. I saw one of them. Residential homes. And they're going in, with all cash offers. They're offering waving inspections. Sometimes they're not even looking at the houses. And so from a buyer's perspective. You know, we know it's going to close. It's all cash. We don't have to go through any brain damage. And they're just selling these houses to these corporations, who are then renting it back to people who now can no longer afford a house. Have been priced out of the house. And this goes back to that whole Great Reset playbook, of you will own nothing. And you will be happy. Except, we know you won't be happy because owning a home is part of that wealth creation. And part of that American dream.
GLENN: So, Carol, when do people -- what is the tripwire, that wakes people up? The average person. Because the average person still is saying, this kind of stuff can't happen. You know, it's -- it's Germany in the 1930s. Okay. Yes. But it's not going to get any worse than this. And if you keep moving the line. To, it can't get worse than this. Look how far we have come in ten years. When -- where is the pain point, for the American people?
CARLY: That's an excellent question. I know you spent a lot of time on social media, Glenn. Have you ever seen the distracted boyfriend meme, where you have the guy who is looking at a girl, and his girlfriend is kind of like looking what's going on. And it's very much, everybody is looking at stuff that isn't important.
CARLY: And the stuff that is really important, you're looking and going, why aren't you paying attention to me? And there's just so much nonsense out there, that people are highly focused on. That I think you do such an incredible service, to the average American, by bringing up these issues they nobody is talking about.
You know, usually, when the tripwire happens, is after it's too late. You know, after it's affected so many people, that you hit that tipping point. That you're at the point of no return. And they're like, oh, gosh. I guess we should have paid attention to this earlier. And, you know, that -- that is the unfortunate thing. It's why it's so important to have these conversations. And for individuals, to help spread the word. I mean, this has to be a movement. You have to be out talking to your friends. And to your family. And to your neighbors about these things. Because it's really getting out of control.
GLENN: Well, I can't thank you enough, for your stories that you're now writing on TheBlaze. The latest is ESG advocates are killing the American dream. You can find it on TheBlaze.com. You got a letter in, that I want to read.
GLENN: Carol, before I get into this commercial, did you see -- is this true, that the fed came out and said the next four increases on interest rates, will be 50 basis points each? A rise of -- of 2 percent?
CARLY: I certainly saw that they were entertaining it as a possibility. I don't think that it was 100 percent set in stone. But they were -- are more open to that, which basically says, uh-oh, we are really behind the curve. And we need to play catch-up. And as we've talked about, has implications.
GLENN: Yeah. Because that is -- that is -- how much is the increase for each point, just for our federal budget?
CARLY: So basically, it is tied into pushes up the ten-year yield. It's a ten-year yield, already trading up. It was at like two and a half percent, for at least a day last week. And that affects when the government issues bonds. You know, how much it has to give in terms of interest. So when they do that. When they do that financing -- and so this isn't on the current financing, which is already done. But on future financing, every 1 percent is $300 billion in additional taxes. So it's not something that will happen immediately.
But, again, if you go back to that CBO Projection, that this was going to happen, you know, by 2032. It was going to be another 300 billion, they were expecting the ten-year yield to be at 2.1 percent by 2025, and we're already at 2.5 percent.
GLENN: So you got an email in, if I can read it here from an employee. He says, this is -- this is not my employer's opinion. This is mine. My current company, WTW has probably about 40 percent of the market in private pension consulting, with two or three others making up another 50 percent. WTW and other consulting officials cover essentially every employer of any size. We are all full goal pushing ESG. The new CEO at WTW has made ESG his number one priority, wanting to incorporate it into, quote, everything we do. WTW is some sort of WEF partner. I have raised many, many controversial subjects around ESG at local and regional office levels, with some people privately expressing concerns.
The company is located mostly deep, deep blue areas, so it's not surprising. Most just seem to glaze over the controversies. I've also reached out to the attorney general's office, after seeing him on Glenn's program. Discussing this as anti-trust. From a pension 401(k) perspective, Biden issued an executive order on ESG. Which has been prompted the Department of Labor to issue supposed -- or proposed regulations on clearing the way for retirement plan fiduciaries, using ESG strategies in their pension retirement assets. For 45 years, the law governing private retirement benefits has held plan assets, be invested for the sole benefit of the participants, which one would expect.
So is he saying now that -- that these funds can invest in things knowing that it's not the best return?
CARLY: Yeah. It's very interesting. The financial area has been the one, where having a fiduciary duty has been the most important. So whether you are a public company director, or if you're somebody who is managing pension funds. You have what is called a fiduciary responsibility. Things that are in the best interest of the shareholder. What your listener has told us here, is that there are these pension consulting firms, that are whispering and saying, we should be pushing ESG. And, you know, not by law. Just by executive order. Biden has opened the door to say, yeah. It's okay for you to get around this fiduciary duty, and to push ESG, which is not in your best interest.
GLENN: Oh, my gosh.
CARLY: And he actually came up with some things that you should be doing. That I think are really, really important.
GLENN: Okay. Hang on. I've got 30 seconds. I don't want to cut you off on this. This is really important, if you have a pension fund. This is ESG, going into your pension fund. It may not be the right thing for you, financially. But now, the government has opened the way, to say, don't worry about those investors. Don't worry about it. You'll do the right thing for the environment or social justice, we've got you covered. When you're living with aches and pains, especially if you're in frequent pain all the time. It is easy to let that define your life. And it becomes who you are. Your pain. If you've tried everything, that you can think of to combat that pain, you've gone to doctors and everything else. And you still don't get any relief. Trust me, I have been there. And I've also experienced something I've never thought -- I really thought, this is the rest of my life. And I hated that. Because it completely limited me. Because of the pain that I was in. Then I started the three-week Quick Start from Relief Factor. I only did it -- they've been an advertiser for years. And asked me to endorse. And I said no. Because I really didn't think it would work. And then my wife said to me, in one of my bad pain months. You know what, try. Try it. I'm not going to listen to you bellyache, unless you try it. And three weeks later, I couldn't believe it. But I have to admit it worked for me. And it still works every day. ReliefFactor.com. ReliefFactor.com. You can call 1-800-4-Relief. Get their three-week trial pack. ReliefFactor.com.
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(OUT AT 9:28AM)
GLENN: This is the Glenn Beck Program. Talking about several things. The 20 percent wealth tax. And the unrealized tax, which I have a quick question for you, Carol. And then we will go back to ESG. But I remember reading a story, maybe 15 years ago. And it was a member of the progressive black caucus, that had introduced a bill. I read about it in the Wall Street Journal. It was a little, teeny story, about how you could no longer take your wealth out of the United States, without like a significant penalty. And I thought, boy, what do they know that I don't know, on what's coming? You know what I mean? Why are they protecting the -- the Treasury? We've never been protective of wealth. Take it. Go. There will be other people. Make it. Can you take your -- if you were one of these billionaires, can you just leave the country?
CARLY: I certainly believe so. You know, I'm not a tax expert. I would imagine, there are certain things that you have to do, depending on where you are domiciled. But if you moved where you live. And, you know, whether you give up citizenship or not, you're not living in the US. You're not earning your money in the US. I would imagine that there's a way to do that. And I know that's why we say that capital is mobile.
KAMALA: And that's what happened, by the way, in Europe. That's why we saw all of these celebrities and multi-millionaires, who decided that they were just going to go. And, by the way, if you were out of the country. Even if the U.S. says, we, quote, unquote, can't do that. I mean, if you're gone, you're gone. Right?
GLENN: Yeah. Okay. So let's go back to this money manager, who works for a big company? You're familiar with WTW?
CARLY: Yeah. So, basically, we've kept the gentleman's name confidential on purpose, because he's doing a great job trying to work on this from the inside. Yeah. Blow the whistle on this. And so basically he's working for a firm that does consulting for pension -- like, basically private pension funds. So if your company has a 401(k), they're going to have a consultant -- and this company, he works for, by the way, owns like 40 percent of the market there. One of the like two big ones. So everybody has heard of them before.
CARLY: And this is a really incredible point, that through this executive order from Biden, they're trying to get around the fiduciary duty, that plans have to the people who are invested. Which is insane. They should be doing things for your benefit, not from some central planner's benefit.
GLENN: Okay. So here's the difference. This is the difference between stakeholder capitalism. And shareholder capitalism. They sound alike. But they're completely different. Shareholder means, I take my money. I buy shares. And I expect a return, or I could get a loss. But I pay for it. And it is -- it's my risk, and my benefit. By eliminating stake -- or shareholders, as your capitalist term, and replacing it with stakeholders. You're only one of many at the table. And the others don't have necessarily profit as their first desire.
So you're just one quiet mouse at the table, with very, very little power. Do I have that right?
CARLY: So I would argue that the phrase stakeholder, is complete and utter BS. It's trouble speak.
GLENN: Yes. Yes. Yes, it is.
CARLY: Because the reality is, that as a shareholder, you are a stakeholder. Other stakeholders are your customers. Other stakeholders are your employees. And all of those things in a market system, align very well. If you're a company, that doesn't treat its employees very well. If you're a company that, you know, doesn't treat its customers well, that ends up getting reflected in your revenue, which, by the way, drops down to the profits, and then the real stakeholders. The shareholders get bad, and say, you're not treating these other people correctly. I'm not getting a return, and something needs to change.
So all of those are very much aligned. What they're trying to call stakeholders aren't stakeholders. They're people who think they're morally superior. They're outside the scope of the company. They're central planners who are trying to impose their will on every company that is out there. They have no stake in this whatsoever. They're not putting up money. They're not part of this. They just want their plan. So they've come up with this really cute and clever name, that we're stakeholders. By the way, no, you're not.
GLENN: I love that. So this is where like Larry Fink, from BlackRock. Really, horrible, horrible guy. And he is -- he's not investing necessarily, his money. He's controlling all of the money from the people who have invested. And they're expecting a profit. So this guy says, there are things that you have to do, if you have money in a 401(k). And what are they, Carol?
CARLY: Well, before that, let's talk about the huge moral hazard here. You've got a couple of different huge entities. BlackRock, Vanguard, and State Street. Which are the top shareholder, pretty much every public company, because of their size and scale. They have $10 trillion in asset under management, just in BlackRock. So for them to be able to vote on behalf of everybody's money, in the way that they think is fit. I mean, they're supposed to be fiduciaries, and somebody should be raising a flag here, and maybe testing them legally. Are you really doing things in the best interest of the shareholders? Or are you pushing your agenda? Which goes back to the part that you asked of this gentleman. In terms of your pension funds. He says, you can talk to an ERISA attorney to see if maybe there is a case for a breach of fiduciary duty.
GLENN: Wait. Wait. How do you find -- I've never even heard of an ERISA attorney. How do you find an ERISA attorney?
CARLY: My favorite way to do anything is by internet search or asking around to people, as you know.
GLENN: And that's E-R-I-S-A?
CARLY: I-S-A. Yeah. So basically ERISA is the broad set of laws that oversee pension fund management. So if you have a pension fund or a 401(k), and they're pushing ESG, you should be talking to an attorney. You can also talk to your state legislators about that. So laws, that say, you know, what your breaching fiduciary duties -- and maybe even suggesting something around a law requiring employers, who use retirement funds, to not only disclose it, but to look into whether that's even legal. And then use your voice. Contact your employer and your benefits administrator. And tell them that you are concerned that this push for ESG, is not in your best interest. And if you can get a bunch of people to do that, and make noise. This is where you can really make a difference. And help to stop that nonsense.
GLENN: And this is really important, because, again, these companies that are being tagged, are not necessarily the most successful companies. They're not necessarily the ones that you would bet on. In fact, quite the opposite. Because these are new upcoming companies. And everybody is investing in them for ESG standards.
However, that doesn't mean, they're turning the big profit yet. That's a future bet. Well, if I'm a retiree. I want my money to go in where I'm going to get the best return. That's not necessarily what an ESG plan is doing.
CARLY: Well, it can't. Right? If by definition, over time, that if your company is pursuing standards, other than doing what's in the best interest of the company and its actual shareholders and stakeholders, just by it's straight-up logic. If they do that, you're not get the best returns. And, by the way, it is going to shape what happens in the economy overall. We're seeing it right now. Part of the reason, why your gas prices are so high. Part of the reason, why we're having, you know, these issues, is because ESG is funneling capital to the projects they want, and keeping capital from things like oil and gas. This is by dictate, by mandate. And so it's not letting the consumers and the choices of millions of people shape the decisions. It's a handful of people, who are saying, this is how we want the economy to look. And we know, that is not capitalism.
GLENN: It is phenomenal, that more people aren't paying attention to it. Carol, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
CARLY: Thank you. And, by the way, read your book The Great Reset to find out more about this ESG play -- play. Because it's so important, people have to understand the underpinnings. Just a little plug over there!
GLENN: Well, thank you very much. We don't pay you to be on this show. But perhaps we should, that was very good. Thank you very much. Appreciate it, Carol.
CARLY: That's a good one.
GLENN: Carol Roth. By the way, she's right though. The book will explain all of this. And it is going to cost you in your pension. And you need to find out. The California -- what is it? Calipers? That's all ESG. Now, all of it is ESG. And if they're doing it, I can guarantee, your state benefits. That's why Idaho. You should have passed a law, that said, you can't invest in anything, that is working with the E, S, or G. Because ESG will hurt these investments, while hurting our own states. So ask your company. And if -- if you want to really get serious about it, find an ERISA. ERISA. An ERISA attorney, and ask them. Do I have a case for breach of fiduciary duty, with the respect on my 401(k) or my pension?
Are they doing the right thing for me? Or are they doing the right thing for them?