RADIOSeptember 13, 2022

THIS is how we can END the ‘victimhood’ RUINING America

America has a victimhood problem. And that victim mentality has helped to create a ‘vacuum at the heart of American souls,’ says Vivek Ramaswamy, author of ‘Nation of Victims.’ But, thankfully, Ramaswamy believes he has the answer. He explains to Glenn how rejuvenating Americans' ‘unapologetic pursuit of excellence’ can help to create a new national identity that leaves victimhood far behind…

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: There is a must-read book, that has just come out called nation of victims. Identity politics. The death of merit and the path back to excellence. It's out today.

Vivek Ramaswamy is the author, and he joins me now.

Vivek, first question. And don't hate me for this, if I've had it wrong the whole time. I am the worst on names. The worst. And every time I see you on a show, you never correct anybody. And they're always pronouncing your name a different way.

Am I getting it wrong, and you're just being polite? Or is Vivek the way you say your name?

VIVEK: Vivek is right. Ramaswamy. Ramaswamy.

GLENN: Ramaswamy. Ramaswamy.

VIVEK: Right. Exactly. You know, there's TV hits, you usually get three to four minutes. I prefer to talk about content. Since you asked, I love it.

GLENN: Yeah. So, Vivek, out of respect for you, because I'm watching it. And I'm so paranoid, I always get things wrong on names. Always. Like my wife, I would screw up her name. I just wanted to make sure. Okay. So nations -- nation of victims is out.

And you're known at least on this program, as somebody who is very into ESG. You know, very -- against it. You are doing everything you can, to bring back merit. This book does not really deal with ESG or anything like that. This is the answer in our own lives. Would you agree?

VIVEK: That's right, Glenn. I would agree. I think there are two sides to this equation. Right? Even if you think about the kind of stuff we usually talk about in this program. The kind of stuff I'm working on, in the private sector. Yes. That is about corporate meddling in our culture. It is about the use of corporate power to advance one-sided progressive agendas. But it takes two to tango. What do I mean by that? It also takes a population, and a consumer base, that is willing to buy those narratives, and use that to actually be moved by it. So what this book is about is the broader question. Why is it that consumers are so hungry for a cause, and purpose, and meaning and identity. That they fall for these victim narratives. That companies and other cynical actors to sell them. That's what this book is about. And the case that I make in this book is that we've fallen into a moment in our history, where we see hardship as the same thing as victimhood.

Well, guess what, my thesis is that hardship is not the same thing as victimhood. Hardship is part of what teaches who we are, both as individuals and as a people.

And I think the black hole, at the vacuum of Americans. And the vacuum of the heart of the American soul right now, is our absence of a shared national identity. And the case I make in this book, is that we can fill that vacuum, with a shared national identity, based on the unapologetic pursuit of excellence. Through our system of free market capitalism. And as individuals who are free agents in the world. Regardless of the color of our skin. Or where our parents came from. That's why I wrote this book.

GLENN: So where do you think the big turning -- because I think it was 2008. Where the bailout happened. We're now doing all of that. And it's the end of personal responsibility for corporations.

VIVEK: It really was. It was a different level of responsibility at every level of society. So I think 2008 was a big turning point for a lot of reasons. What happened in 2008? We had the 2008 financial crisis. We had the bailouts. We had no accountability for a lot of financial institutions, that took risk at the public -- at the public -- when times were good, they got paid. When times were bad, the public had to bail them out. That was also the birth of the identity politic wing of the new left. It was Barack Obama elected as the first black president of the United State, a lot of victimhood narratives that went with that. We're also in the thick of the greatest intergenerational wealth transfer in human history. From the Baby Boomer generation to my generation of millennials and Gen Z. And I think that creates a new victimhood culture. And a culture of entitlement as well.

Just there were a lot of things around the turn of the last decade. There were a lot of factors in our culture that conspired to create this new culture of victimhood. And one of the things I -- one of the things I describe in the book, is also the rise of a laziness culture. Even in our work. But in our culture more broadly. And one of the things I say in the book, is that victimhood fits laziness like a glove. In that people today, who are lazy, and that don't want to work. Construe that as not just their own sloth. Which is one of the human vices.

But also a narrative of the grand fight of the oppression of capitalism. The oppression of modernity, the colonialism of capitalism. This is the kinds of things you hear, as part of the great resignation in the pandemic, started back in the post 2008 era. So I think it was a combination of a new laziness culture of entitlement, that came from my generation being on the receiving end of this large inter-generational wealth transfer.

But combined with these victimhood narratives, this justified that laziness with a moral veneer.

That is part of what led to us now having a shared national identity based on victimhood. We're a nation of victims. And I think the case I made, we need to graduate from that.

You talk about Plato's ideal society. And you talk about it, because you say, that's how we find the ideal citizen.

What is the ideal citizen in 2022?

VIVEK: In America, this is the question of our hour, okay. So I think there are two parts to what it means to be Americans. And I think each of us has some of this in our heart. On the one hand, we all want to be an individual, who is able to pursue our own individualistic dreams through the system of free market capitalism. That's what we think of as the American dream.

I have that impulse. You have that impulse. Most of the listeners in this program, share that feeling too. That's half the story. That's what I call the pursuit of excellence. The unapologetic pursuit of excellence. But I think there's another half of the story too, Glenn. I think many of us on the right, have missed for years. Which is also our hunger to be part of a nation, that is greater than the sum of its parts. A collective whole as citizens. And that's the side of our identity as individuals, that really, I think revolves around also the revival of civic duty. One of the chapters of the book is entitled A Theory of Duty. It's a play on John Rawls' A Theory of Justice, which was the North Star of the left, for much of the late 20th century.

I offer what I call A Theory of Duty, which talks about the revival of a civic duty. And the case I make, is it's not at odds with liberty, to have a civic duty. Our civic duty as citizens is different than the freedoms we want to have, in all of the spheres of our life, including economically. And I think it's one of the things that conservatives sometimes get wrong. We get wrong. In our -- in our obsession. We just talked about freedom. And believe me, I'm ten out of the scale of ten on that discussion. We miss the fact, that we have civic duties as citizens, that actually gives us greater fortitude to pursue our freedoms through the system of free market capitalism, through our pursuit of excellence as individuals, which is not the philosophy at the heart of this book, actually.

GLENN: I'm old enough, that in high school, you couldn't graduate without having a class called rights and responsibilities. And we have forgotten the responsibility part. And that is, like you say, huge.

But, you know, I learned something, when I lived in New York City.

When I moved to New York City, I was always a guy, who if there was garbage on the street. I would pick it up and throw it in the garbage can. And it was just ingrained in me. I grew up in a smaller town. And after about two years of living in New York, there was garbage at the front of my building, at sixth avenue. And it was just this newspaper. It was just blowing everywhere. And my first thought was, how much money do I have to pay this stupid city, for them to keep it clean?

And I stopped in my own tracks, and I thought, oh, my gosh. I've turned into one of them!

VIVEK: Well, that's really honest of you, Glenn. To talk about. Look in the mirror that way. That's something more of us ought to do. That's before we point the finger outward, let's take a mirror and look within. It's funny, I'm talking to you from a car in New York City right now, where I'm literally seeing bottles lining the street on the left hand side of my car, without somebody stepping down to pick it up.

And I think that idea of civic duty is something that -- I could call out the liberal side of this. I have been for years. I do a little bit of that in the book as well. But I think it's a place for the conservative movement to look internally and say, all right. Look, we can criticize the poison that fills the vacuum, all we want.

At the end of the day, we're not rising to the occasion. If we don't fill that vacuum with something more meaningful, something more rich, that dilutes the poison.

GLENN: So help me out.

Because, Vivek, I think -- and I know religion plays a big part in religion and in your life. The right would say, we do our civic duty. We're much more charitable. We work through our churches. I know people who go on missions all the time. I mean, we do do our civic duty. That's what they would say.

VIVEK: I think we need more than that. I think there's definite -- that's why -- that's why I'm more interested in speaking to the conservative movement than I am to the left. Because I think that there's a greater chance of filling that national vacuum, and we have to pick which political party or which political movement is going to do it. I'm more optimistic about the conservative movement.

That's why I'm preaching to that choir, rather than the other one. Because I think that's our best chance of success.

I think we need to revive that though. And I think there's one of two directions, for the future of the conservative movement. Either one that wallows in a new version of victimhood, in response to left-wing victimhood.

Which I've been -- by the way, a big critic of. And a lot of what I'm saying is a self-reflection, Glenn. I've spent the last two years criticizing a lot of woke victimhood culture. Left-wing victimhood culture. But one of the things I've learned, introspective for myself.

Is how much -- and we're moving the needle a little bit, by putting the spotlight on the problem. If we want to move the needle in a big way. We won't have a generation left, to save the identity of this country.

And if we're going to do it, it's not going to come by just pointing our finger at all the hypocrisies of the other side. Because that would take all of our time. We would have no time left, and time would run out, before we would be able to save our national identity. We need to fill the void of national identity with something else.

And what I offer in this book is two reasons for that. One is the revival of the shared pursuit of excellence. That's part of what I'm working on in the private sector. In the board of directors at Chevron, last week. Doing what I'm doing at strive. I'm trying to do that through the private sector.

That's still only half the story, though.

And I think that as citizens, we also need to revive our sense of civic duty, to start talking about that more. You know, I think it's a provocative idea, I offered in my last book. I talk about it in this one too, of even thinking about weaving civic service, into education. That's something that makes conservatives, a lot of Libertarian conservatives, even myself, ten years ago, would have recoiled at that idea. That feels like, it's an infringement on our liberty. Well, what I say, is, first of all, if you start at a young enough age, we accept that children, under the age of 18 or 16, are not yet free agents in the world. We have to create those citizens. And weaving the idea of service. Of identity as a citizen in your country, is part of what allows you to actually be an unapologetic capitalist. An unapologetic free agent, once you do enter that free world.

And part of that problem, I think, is we have an entire generation. My generation, that never learned how to do actual service. Nor how to pursue their own self-interests in their own right, by co-mingling the two. We never learn how to actually do either one on its own.

So I think it will actually create a greater generation of capitalists. A greater generation of free individualist agents in the world, if we also revive this idea, of living out our civic duties. And I think you're right. A lot of conservatives in their private lives do that. I think we need to make that as part of a North Star of what it means to America.

GLENN: I think you're seeing that now, with the takeover of the school boards, and you know the local city councils, et cetera.

I mean, conservatives. You know, they were busy keeping their nose to their business. And down to the grindstone. And et cetera, et cetera. And just thought. Oh, this is all being taken care of.

It was being taken care of. Just not in the way we appreciate.

VIVEK: Exactly. And one of the things I like to do, Glenn. Let's take a step back from the present. Let's take a walk through history. One of the things I do in the book. I talk a lot about a post-Civil War history and the Reconstruction Era. But one of the areas of history I go to is Roman history. One of the things I reminded myself of. You know, you hear a lot of analogies today, between the fall of the American experiment. And the fall of Rome. Well, guess what, there was no one rise or one fall of Rome. There were many rises, and many falls.

And it -- you know what, I don't think we're done with this American experiment quite yet either. There were many rises and many falls of Rome. There were many rises and many falls with this great country, and this great experiment as well.

And I tell the story of, it's interesting, I hadn't studied this since high school. Emperor Septimius Severus, he was known as the black Emperor. Okay. That's how I studied him in high school at least. One of the things I learned doing the research of this book. He only got that name, the black Emperor. In the last few decades. As he was redescribed in modern American history. There was a TV series that highlighted the story of the first black man to walk on England's soil came not as a slave, but as a conqueror. And then they made a whole narrative around it. Well, the funny thing is, if you go back to the Roman era, people could see that he had dark skin. It was no different than someone having dark eyes or dark hair.

The thing they actually cared about were, were you a Roman citizen? Or were you not?

Were you a member of this nation, or were you not?

That's how they actually saw him. And in a certain sense, we've created our vision, even in history. He's the black emperor we need. Not the black emperor he was. That was never how the Romans saw him. And it just shows you how anachronistically we even view history. That if we're able to take off the Googles of the present. The filters of the present. And actually even take ourselves out of the present, it suddenly becomes politically less controversial. We're able to talk about these ideas in ways that are 1,000 years removed. But then you come back to the present and you see what a strange world it is that you live in.

GLENN: Yep. Yep.

VIVEK: And I think that's one of the reasons why I felt compelled to write this book. It's not for everybody. But if you're a lover of history, if you're interested in potentially the parallels between Roman history and modern American history, how we got here, dating back to the post Civil War.

Reconstruction Era, where victimhood culture began, and I think how we were able to translate that into the victim culture that we see today.

You know, for those who actually enjoy that walk through history, that's who this book was intended for, in contrast to Woke Inc. my last book, which was more about current events and the current era. This is a walk through history, that gives us hopefully a different view of the present.

GLENN: Yeah. Well, you've really targeted the wrong audience for that.

VIVEK: I don't know about that. I don't know about that.

GLENN: This audience -- you're speaking their language. It's great. It's called a nation of victims. And it's written by Vivek Ramaswamy.

And we appreciate everything that you do, Vivek. Thank you so much. God bless.

You bet. Nation of victims. A must-read. All right. Back in just a second.

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Meet the pro-Intifada candidate NYC Democrats just elected

New York City Democrats just elected 33-year-old Zohran Mamdani, a "socialist Muslim", as the Party's candidate for mayor. But Glenn Beck argues that his radical beliefs are actually communist and Islamist.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

VOICE: Z10852. Something weird is going on. The World Trade Center is on fire.

VOICE: Seriously the top of the building. We're trying to get information.

VOICE: Top level of one of the --

VOICE: To unfold from New York City.

VOICE: A plane crashed just --

VOICE: My sister is in that believe. I hope she's okay. I have to come to New York.

VOICE: It's pandemonium.

VOICE: It's raining papers.

VOICE: Wait a minute! Stop just a second. Why are we -- why are we -- I've got breaking news. Breaking news, yesterday. New York City just elected as their mayoral candidate for the left. And the Democrats, a -- a Muslim radical, who is also a communist!

So, you know, it only took you 25 years. It only took you 25 years, New York, to go completely insane.

Somebody who is -- well, I mean, if I might quote Michael malice today. I am old enough to remember when New Yorkers endured 9/11 instead of voting for it.

But you've got a -- you've got a communist jihadist apologist now.

Who was -- you know, well, CAIR put $100,000 behind his bid for New York City mayor.

So you have somebody who is endorsed by CAIR. That's really good.

He also was somebody who said, you know, he was -- he was for the shooting of the United Health Care CEO.

Said he was looking forward to driving down magnum Joan avenue. I don't know. Sounds like supporting people in the streets. Maybe it's just me.

Then he also said that he was going to globalize the intifada, which I think that's -- maybe -- maybe that's just me.

I mean, what do I know?

Tim Miller who is a podcaster. Asked him a few weeks ago. Asked him about his pro Palestinian slogan. Globalized the intifada. And he said, for me, ultimately, what I hear in so many, is a desperate desire for equality and equal rights, in standing up for Palistinian human rights. Oh, is that what you hear, Mr. CAIR?

Really? Huh, that's interesting.

Right. So globalize the intifada.

I mean, I mean, sure, that's -- I mean well, let me go on.

Because I don't want to take him out of context.

He then delved into the semantics of the intifada, citing the United States Holocaust memorial museum's use of a word for a translation for uprising, in an Arabic version of an article, a museum published about the Warsaw ghetto.

Oh!

So this is just a comparison, about the -- the armed rebellion against the Nazis!

I don't know if that makes me feel better!

I mean, if we're globalizing that.

We're the Nazis in this scenario.

Because I don't think it's the Palestinians.

I certainly don't think it's anybody who is like, hey.

Global jihad. I don't think it's those guys.

Or the Nazis. Who are the Nazis in that?

And it seems, if that's what you mean, then it's not just a harmless kind of slogan about human rights. It is a call for violence on the streets.

Because I don't know if you know, that's what happened when the Jews had their uprising against the Nazis.

I'm just saying!

But, hey, hey, free Palestine.

Oh, that's not what that means, gang. That is not what that means, but don't worry about it. He's just going to be possibly the new mayor.

And that's great. By the way, the Columbia faculty members signed a letter defending Hamas.

They were also among the donors to his mayoral campaign.

So, you know, you don't have anything to worry about.

And his father, who used to work at Columbia. Do you know, Stu?

Is his Dad -- is he still a professor at Columbia University?

He said that -- this violent terror thing of Islam, is not a part of Islam. Now, I've read the Koran, and much of the hadith.

And I'm pretty sure the violence is a part of that. But no.

No. This is something entirely new.

And his father while at Columbia university, wanted everybody to know, that this is actually -- this is something that came out of America!

America is really responsible for this.

And, you know, it really started with the Reagan administration, you know, when he started -- when he started with his very religious terms, to finish the war against the evil empire.

So, you know, that's where -- that's where 9/11 came from.

Is what -- don't worry about it! Don't worry about it!

Because who am I? I'm clearly just -- am I an anti-Semite today, or am I an Islamophobic? I can't remember which one.

Oh, it's probably both. Anyway, Islamophobia. Let me just explain Islamophobia. I haven't even gotten to the Communist part of it. Which is really, really -- New York, you're in one for hell of a ride. Buckle up.

It will be a fun rollercoaster for you. My gosh, I've never been happier that I've been away are if New York.

Anyway, I just want I to know, there is Islam. And then there is Islamists. Now, an Islamist is somebody who really wants Sharia law.

That's political Islam!

That's not a faith. That's political Islam.

Now, let me make really -- something really clear. Criticizing Islamism, is not Islamophobia. Pointing out the dangers of, oh. I don't know.

Political Islam. The ideology that seeks to use the tools of democracy, ultimately to destroy democracy, is not an attack on Muslims.

No. Uh-uh.

You know why?

Because Muslims are often the first people in line.

The first victims of the ideology.

So let's draw a bright, bright line between Islam as a faith, millions of people can practice that faithfully and peacefully.

It's mostly peaceful, okay?

Then there's the Islamism.

Islamism is something entirely -- that's a political project.

A theocratic political -- oh. Left loves theocracies. They love it.

Of course, you never see a problem with it.

See it when an Islamist is touting it. Anyway, it's not about prayer. It's not about fasting. It's not about spiritual life.

It's all about power. It's about merging of mosque and state. It's about implementing Sharia, not as a personal code of conduct. But as a governing legal system.

And it's -- it's supremacy.

Absolutely. Faith.

Religion.

It's -- there's one thing that's supreme.

It's misogynistic.

Deeply intolerant of all kinds of things.

Descent. Secularism. Other faiths. Even competing interpretations from inside the faith itself.

It will behead them too.

So let's -- let's be honest here for a second.

You know, CAIR should be labeled an international terror organization.

In my opinion. In my opinion.

Oh, does that make me -- that makes me an Islamophobe. I'm sure. I'm sure they will start a campaign against me on being an Islamophobe.

Stand in line, guys. You've been doing it since 2001, okay?

I don't really care. And I don't think the American people. I think that record, all the grooves are worn-out on that one, okay?

This is not a religion we're talking about. When we're talking about Sharia law. And we're talking about globalize the intifada. What does that mean, actually, to globalize it?

Does that mean we now want to do what is happening to Israel? All over the world?

Has the Palestinian plight become our plight you now, as Americans?

That there has to be an intifada here!

Because it's the kind of the same. You know. It's kind of the same over, you know, with what the Palestinians are going through.

Well, it's very much like what the Jews went through with the Nazis.

That's a weird one. That one makes my head hurt. It's very much the same as that. And very much the same as the fight against Donald Trump.

Oh, this is going to be fun. It's fun!

Really fun. You know, the irony here is, the ones that will scream Islamophobia the most, are the ones in the progressive left, the champions of feminism, LGBTQ rights. And secularism.

They're going to -- no. You want -- they're going to stand with the people, who want to kill them first.

See, this is how smart they are!

This is why it's going to work out well, in New York City.

Let me just say. If you have an ounce of common sense, you run a business, you have an ounce of wealth. And I don't mean wealth like, you know, hey, Lovey.

Let's get on the boat for a three-hour tour with a suitcase full of cash. I mean you saved anything, anything, get the hell out of New York City.

I mean, this is about survival. This is about free speech. This is about women's rights.
Religious pluralism. Secular legal systems. Liberal democracy.

But it's also about failed principles of Communism. Okay?

First, you have to call out political Islam for what it is. Okay?

And we have to do it with the clarity that we call out white nationalism.

Got to do it with that. Got to -- you know, the Klan. Really bad people.

Really bad people.

Anybody who is shouting for globalized intifada?

Pretty bad. Pretty bad people.

Okay?

Now, let's get to communism.

Because that's another cool, cool angle of the new Democratic candidate for -- for mayor of New York City.

That I just -- I think is cuddly and cute. Sure, it led to 100 million deaths. But this time, New York is going to be radically different. Oh, did I use the word radical?

I didn't mean to use that. What's radical about this guy?

Nothing. He's just like you!

Well, not exactly.

But let's talk about communism, next!

Now, the new mayoral candidate that's running there in New York City. That so many young people rushed to defend and vote for. He's promising free buses.

That's going to work out.

Where are you going to get the money for free buses.

It's free!

City-run grocery stores.

Oh, rent freezes. And finally somebody has done it. A 30-dollar minimum wage.

So under the banner of equity. And, you know, we will tax the wealthy. And the corporations. You know, we're going to squeeze another $10 billion out of them.

Really?

Because they're going to call a U-Haul.

You know, they will call something like U-Haul. There will be a lot of -- there will be a lot of movers that are like, how do I get the truck back from Texas or Florida back up to New York? Nobody is moving up there.

But he's going to do it.

Now, his vision isn't really new. You know, just -- just tax people, so we could have city-run grocery stores. You know, I remember -- I'm old enough to remember those city-run grocery stores in Moscow.

They were great.

The shelves were empty.

But that's just Moscow.

It worked out completely different in Venezuela.

Where, oh, no.

It didn't. That's right. The grocery store.

They were eating the zoo animals.

But it will be different in New York.

Because they have rent controls too.

And that will just choke the housing supply, but don't worry. As a young family.

You know, you voted for it.

You know better.

It will work this time.

So, you know, I like building ideas, I just don't like usually building on the graves of 100 million people.

But, you know, why not? Why not?

You know, use this dogma.

And this time, it will be different. It's not like it was in China. Where the great leap forward, was a gross -- a gross parody of progress. Venezuela, which was oil rich. One of the richest nations in the hemisphere now sees 90 percent of its population in poverty!

Yeah. Darn it. You know what they did?

They decided to take state control of things.

You know, like grocery stores. And it worked out well. How is that free busing working out in Venezuela?

I just want to -- I just want to know.

Anyway, then you've got the globalize the intifada. Which is going to drop a little violence in, and anti-Semitism in with your communism.

Which is weird!

Because violence and anti-Semitism, always happen. When it -- when it comes to -- when it comes to communism.

This is weird!

I've got to play something for you. Because this has talked about on me earlier this morning.

Oh, wow.

Wait a minute. This is -- this is the whole coalition coming together here.

So this is going to be good. New York, this is going to be great.

It's going to be great for you.

No. He's going to uplift you. Then the social fabric of New York City is just going to be -- just one.

It's going to be fantastic. Don't worry about your 120 billion dollars in debt. Or your 10 billion-dollar deficit that you have right now.

You are going to charge the rich more taxes, and they will stay right there.

They will be like, you know what, that 46 percent in taxes that I'm paying, this is just not enough. It's just not enough.

I need to pay 60 or 70 percent to be able to pay my fair share. So that's good. That's good. That's good.

You know, they're not risking 100 million people. It's just 8 million people.

This time, it's just 8 million people.

But, hey. For those of you in upstate New York. That aren't going to be part of this experiment.

Don't worry, you get to pay for it. Because they'll kick it up to the state. The state will have to subsidize everything. And don't you love it?

Really, don't you want to subsidize the really crazy ideas of New York City?

I mean, why don't you have a -- why don't you have a democratic socialist. A/k/a communist mayor.

Why haven't you done that? Are you not progressive enough? Are you not looking into the future?

Are you stuck in the past?

I don't know. I don't know. The graveyard is pretty big. I have a hard time getting past that one. You know, yeah, so I'm stuck in the past. Because I can't seem to pass that graveyard, and get to be down the path with you. But it's going to be a paradise.

Forget arithmetic. You know, or human nature. This time, it's going to work. It's going to work. So all right!

Wish I lived in this morning.

No wait. Nope. I don't. Nope, I don't.

And Ted Cruz, stop it. Stop writing, hey, come to Texas. No. No. Don't come to Texas. Don't come to Florida. Go to California. It's beautiful this time of year. Go there. Go there.