Shock Claims: Another NSA whistleblower emerges

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Safe to say it’s been a rough couple of weeks for the NSA, and the latest information that has leaked certainly won’t help. This whistleblower isn’t new, he has actually been around since the Bush days, but his claims are getting a closer look now that we know the scope of the NSA snooping scandal.

His comments are chilling and include claims that a Supreme Court justice has been closely monitored for quite some time. Could a justice have been compromised?

According to TheBlaze:

Russ Tice, a former intelligence analyst and Bush-era NSA whistleblower, claimed Wednesday that the intelligence community has ordered surveillance on a wide range of groups and individuals, including high-ranking military officials, lawmakers and diplomats.

“He’s been blowing whistles for a while,” Pat said. “This guy has been talking about the Bush administration spying for a long time, and he was with the ONI, the DIA, the NSA, the NCAA. I mean, he’s been everywhere. And so now, now his latest deal, he’s been saying this about Bush since I think 2005 and then he said that they retaliated against him but then he was speaking out in more specifics yesterday.”

Yesterday, Tice dropped this bomb:

[The Bush administration] went after–and I know this because I had my hands literally on the paperwork for these sort of things – they went after high-ranking military officers; they went after members of Congress, both Senate and the House, especially on the intelligence committees and on the armed services committees and some of the–and judicial.

But they went after other ones, too. They went after lawyers and law firms. All kinds of – heaps of lawyers and law firms. They went after judges. One of the judges is now sitting on the Supreme Court that I had his wiretap information in my hand. Two are former FISA court judges. They went after State Department officials. They went after people in the executive service that were part of the White House–their own people.

“Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Stop the presses. What year did John Roberts go in [to the Supreme Court],” Glenn asked.

It might seem far-fetched to think that the NSA surveillance could somehow extend to political intimidation, but Glenn provided this not-so-hypothetical example:

Let’s just say that John Roberts is the example, but you could use anybody… Let’s say the evil Karl Rove gets into office. He’s the next president, President Karl Rove. And he has this ability, which is no longer hypothetical, and we know is happening. And beyond that, we know that everything that he and his family have done, said, written, where they have been hasn’t necessarily been looked at but has been stored. And the evil Karl Rove says, “[Sonia Sotomayor], take her down. I need her not to vote that way.” Are you telling me that with all of the information stored on a sweet, sweet Latina who’s never done a thing wrong in her life… She was just so sweet and gracious and just a wonderful woman.

So we have her on there. Let’s say she is everything that everybody says she is, but maybe her daughter or her son or her grandchildren have done something stupid. Are you telling me that there aren’t unscrupulous people that will come to you or to Kagan or to Roberts are or anybody else. Why do you expect them to be different than you? How many people do you know that say, “You know what? I’m with you guys, but I just, because of my business, because of my business I can’t speak out. Because if I speak out, I’ll lose my job. Because if I speak out, they will boycott my business. Because of that, my kids will be bullied. So I have to sit it out. I have to be quiet, but you keep going. I’m a silent supporter of yours. You keep going.”

How many people do you know that are already like that? Are you telling me that the ability for the United States government to know all of your healthcare records, just that, just that, your kids are really struggling through depression, your kid is ‑‑ has made just a horrible mistake and is, you know, is, you know, on drugs, or whatever it is, is just depressed, your kid, your family is going through some sort of an issue and you’ve got to go to the doctor, and all those doctors, all those, every bit of those records, if they’re electronic, are with the IRS, just for safekeeping. They’re in the federal data bank. All of them. Are you telling me that you really think that all of the people that you know that are just good, decent people and, “Don’t worry about it because I haven’t done anything wrong,” are you telling me there’s nothing in their life ever, there’s nothing in their children’s lives or their grandchildren’s lives? How many times, how many times, have you said as a parent, Lord, just take this away from them, give it to me. Give it to me, I’ll take it. Whether it’s an illness or a problem or whatever it is, take it from them. Give it to me. We all have.

Now, somebody comes to you and says, “I think, justice Roberts, that you’re going to go the other way because your child has their whole life in front of them, and my, oh my, this just doesn’t look bad. Do you know that they were buying drugs? Did you know that they’ve smoked marijuana cigarettes?” “Yeah, but that happens…” “Yeah, but you know what? I see that your kid was at a party and I’ve got the GPS tracking. He was at a party with another guy, and that other kid, he does more. That kid is related right to this crime family, this drug cartel. Looks to me, I mean, certainly could make a case that your child is wrapped up in some sort of drug crime. Because it’s not just that party. There seems to be another tracking. It shows that these kids have met before, maybe three times.”

“There’s a whole pattern. And, we haven’t even started looking into it, of course, but boy, oh boy. Now, you can make any decision you want. But I just want you to know, man, a man would sure hate to have his child’s lives destroyed over a simple mistake.”

“Can you even imagine the power that this government would have over you? It’s already here,” Glenn said. “They’ve already admitted to storing it all. Now we’re finding out that they are already admitting that they have used it, and we’re finding out more; they’ve used it against congressmen and judges. No wonder the world doesn’t make any sense… Who were they listening to? And why is no one demanding? I’ll tell you why: Because the George Bush administration was just as guilty as this one is. Just as guilty.”

  • landofaahs

    No corruption is beyond obama.  Remember his state of the Union address where he scolded the Supreme court and their decision.  I hope someone who has access to info on obama’s  school records, makes them public and exposes this fraud. 

  • Anonymous

    I felt this way about the David Petraeus situation too.  He was guilty of being, just a man but, he got caught and paid for it.  John Roberts, they must have had something REAL good on him.  If he’d had a different take on Obamacare, things might not be “Progressing” so smoothly.

  • http://www.artinphoenix.com/gallery/grimm snowleopard (cat folk gallery)

    If this is true, then the corruption is absolute. From top to bottom every bit of it must be cleaned out and exposed unto the light of day. There is no end to what Obama will do to gain an edge and final dominance over the entire nation.

  • http://www.artinphoenix.com/gallery/grimm snowleopard (cat folk gallery)

    Could Obama be a true Manchurian Candidate – but one established by Iran?

  • Anonymous

     мy coυѕιɴ ιѕ мαĸιɴɢ $51/нoυr oɴlιɴe. υɴeмployed ғor α coυple oғ yeαrѕ αɴd prevιoυѕ yeαr ѕнe ɢoт α $1З619cнecĸ wιтн oɴlιɴe joв ғor α coυple oғ dαyѕ. ѕee мore αт…­ ­ViewMore——————————————&#46qr&#46net/kkEj

    I
    felt this way about the David Petraeus situation too.  He was guilty of
    being, just a man but, he got caught and paid for it.  John Roberts,
    they must have had something REAL good on him.  If he’d had a different
    take on Obamacare, things might not be “Progressing” so smoothly.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htXuNPBko3Q Sam Fisher

    Welcome to Obama’s police state. 

  • landofaahs

    If Bush did it too then let’s go after him too.  I must have missed something because I read this guy saying Bush went after this person and that but I never heard how he went after them.  Can anyone tell me what he did.  I’m truly interested.  We need to know how these people were “went after”. 

  • Draxx

    Have you noticed that Obummer keeps appointing NEW PEOPLE into Positions of Power and Influence, almost daily…

    They are burying the problems sooooo deep that it will be very difficult to get rid of ALL The Bad People In The Gov’t (Fed and States)!

  • Draxx

    I have a Feeling the CIA has more to do with it than Iran…

  • Anonymous

    I have no doubt that big govt needs to be reined in – Dem or Rep or whatever. They work for us – not their job to monitor and manipulate WeThePpl.

  • Anonymous

    The problem with surveillance isn’t just the fact that they are watching.  The problem is that they might find something that they can use to coerce a person.  For example, they might find a witness to government corruption is having an affair.  They tell that person, “You be quiet or else we will expose this matter”.

  • Anonymous

    J.Edgar all over again. Yep he controlled a lot of things. Including who ran for what office, and who voted for whom. Just his call was a warning, do this, it is what I am doing, and it’s the right thing to do. They knew what he had on them. End of game.

  • Anonymous

    Why does Obama not approve the keystone pipeline?  Because it would financially damage his buddies (sponsers) in Saudi Arabia.  Why did Obama bow down to the king of Saudi Arabia?  Because it was mostly the Saudis who put up the 700 million he used to BUY the US presidency.  Why has Obama continued to damage America with debt, Socialist/Communist programs and anything else he can do to destroy America?  He is a dedicated and devout Muslim who wants to become the American dictator who will quickly install Sharia law and all the other barbaric customs

    inherent to the uncivilized Muslim religion.  WHEN WILL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WAKE UP?  Or, must we have another bloody civil war to remove he and all of his cancerous minions from our Republic.  Should we have another Civil war you may rest assured that there will nothing Civil about it.   WAKE UP AMERICA AND THINK.

  • Anonymous

     Warren Buffet transfers Canadian oil via his transportation company.

  • Anonymous

    Libertarians will save this country. WAKE UP AMERICA.

  • http://TheConservativePush.webs.com/ SoThere

    The FBI has been keeping secret file for blackmail purposes forever.  They never stopped.

  • Luci D’Mari

    You are so right, Glenn, and if they cant find anything, they will fabricate something.
    It IS all about Civil Rights, starting with MOSES. “Let my people go!” all over again.

  • http://www.facebook.com/george.reagan.56 George Reagan

    This is J. Edgar Hoover on steroids … except a million times worse.  Where will I stop???  How will We The People deal with the EPA, NSA, IRS, NLRB and other over blown bureaucratic agencies that waste tax dollars and increase government over reach???  I know one way … every conservative voter show up at the polls and also report voter fraud.  Protest against BHO and his minions/zombies and policies, like this last week in DC.  Don’t let them rest … keep up the fight.  Remember the Continental Army and General Washington, remember those that fought in WWII and all of their sacrifices.  They didn’t give up.  So, why should we … the future of the good ole US of A is at risk … don’t even consider the USSA.  I know I will give my best effort.  US Navy vet, 1966-1969; HM, FMF Corpsman “Doc”, Pharmacist Mate; the “Big E” (CVN-65), USS Repose (AH-16), USS Lexington (CV/S-16); God Bless America; FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.

  • Guest

    You did nothing for the last election.  Just saying.

  • http://www.facebook.com/george.reagan.56 George Reagan

    I WILL NEVER STAND IN LINE AGAIN (Gen. Stanley
    McChrystal
    U.S.Army)

     

    Some men carry and handle their diplomacy better than
    others……..

    When former U.S. Military commander in Afghanistan, Stanley
    McChrystal, was called

    into the Oval Office by Barack Obama, he knew things
    weren’t going to go well when the

    President accused him
    of not supporting him in his political role as
    President.

    “It’s not my job to support you as a politician, Mr.
    President, it’s my job to support you

    as Commander-in-Chief,”   McChrystal replied, and he handed
    Obama his resignation.

     

    Not satisfied with accepting McChrystal’s resignation the
    President made a cheap

    parting shot. “I bet when I die you’ll be happy to pee on
    my grave.”

     

    The General saluted. “Mr. President, I always told myself
    after leaving the Army

    I’d never stand in line again.”

     

  • http://TheConservativePush.webs.com/ SoThere

    Absolutely marvelous!  I’d stand in line. 

  • Anonymous

    Knowledge is Power.  If it is used for a good purpose it spreads freedom and prosperity, if it is used for a bad purpose it can subdue a whole nation and makes slaves of all of us.
    Wake-up America!

  • http://www.facebook.com/george.reagan.56 George Reagan

    Bush’s library or future book will probably spell it out sooner or later.  Rumsfeld’s and Cheney’s books might enlighten some people … they did me.

  • Anonymous

    He doesn’t just bring in new people.  He moves the “old” people into his inner circle where they cannot be called to testify.  Susan Rice is a prime example.

  • Anonymous

    Where are the courageous men and women of honor in government?  Those who will not be corrupted by power and who cannot be blackmailed? 

  • http://www.facebook.com/george.reagan.56 George Reagan

    Millions of gallons every week pass through the Dallas/Fort Worth metro area  via the BNSF rail headed for the Gulf of Mexico.  Probably cheaper than a pipe line, especially with BHO and the EPA along with the tree huggers in tow.  BNSF spent millions of $$$ to up grade the rails over the last several years, so, they knew it would be lots of $$$. 

  • Anonymous

    remember when ……O said I am going to totally  TRANSFORM   …In most of his speaches he mentioned this one particular word and yet not one person questioned what he meant…well he is now TRANSFORMING everything …we have become a weak brained society thanks to a lack of education, our books have been re-written so many times that there is no longer any thing left to educate……all we have left is now is UNION control on the teachers (  if they are young they also have’t recieved the education to teach, cannot teach what they havent learned themselves )  we are now becoming a bunch of sheep being led to slaughter ..brainwashed, drones… God gave us brains..when will we start to use them and add a bit of common sense along with it .? 

  • http://TheConservativePush.webs.com/ SoThere

    They all joined the Union and are scared to death of the Union thugs led by Obama.

  • Anonymous

    MAY I REMIND YOU ALL OF J EDGAR  HOOVER!!!  HE HAD IT ALL ON EVERYONE!!  THAT IS PART OF THE BEHIND DOORS GARBAGE THAT GOES ON INSTEAD OF HONORING THE CONSTITUTION AS THEY PROMISE TO!!   THEY ONLY HONOR POCKETBOOKS STARTING WITH THEIR OWN!! AND IF THEY GET THERE WITH ANY SCRUPLES THEY CAPITULATE BEORE THEIR TERM ENDS!! WHY CAQN THEY NOT GET A BACKBONE AND BE HONEST AND FORTHRIGHT AS THEY PROMISE?????  JUST SAYING?? IT IS  NOT A CONGRESS OF THE PEOPLE, IT HAS BECOME A GOOD  OLE BOYS CLUB!!

  • Anonymous

    MAY I REMIND YOU ALL OF J EDGAR  HOOVER!!!  HE HAD IT ALL ON EVERYONE!!  THAT IS PART OF THE BEHIND DOORS GARBAGE THAT GOES ON INSTEAD OF HONORING THE CONSTITUTION AS THEY PROMISE TO!!   THEY ONLY HONOR POCKETBOOKS STARTING WITH THEIR OWN!! AND IF THEY GET THERE WITH ANY SCRUPLES THEY CAPITULATE BEORE THEIR TERM ENDS!! WHY CAQN THEY NOT GET A BACKBONE AND BE HONEST AND FORTHRIGHT AS THEY PROMISE?????  JUST SAYING?? IT IS  NOT A CONGRESS OF THE PEOPLE, IT HAS BECOME A GOOD  OLE BOYS CLUB!!

  • Anonymous

    Notice the tone of this article?   Making Sonia Sotomayor to be a sweet, gracious, lady made my stomach turn.  She is anything but that as she is a very liberal Democrat who will do anything to advance the hispanic cause.  If Obama told her to commit treason, she probably would. 

  • Anonymous

    It makes me wonder why Roberts voted the way he did on Obamacare, because I don’t think anyone thought he would go for it as a tax. Then right after the decision on Obamacare, he flees the country. It’s almost like he was afraid of retaliation or was it something else? It certainly was strange.

    The latest weird decision by the supremes was the vote against the Arizona voting law regarding proof of ID. Didn’t expect that decision either. Did the Obama administration have something on other supremes? Sure does make me wonder.

  • http://www.facebook.com/kyle.ely.56 Kyle Ely

    I dont get how an article about Bush’s abuses has led to all the Obama is evil comments are you people just that bias and hypocritical?

  • http://www.facebook.com/sharon.simpson.7771586 Sharon Simpson

    Once upon a time some robbers stole my mothers license plate from her car to rob a bank, and the FEDS were at my door in a blink of an eye! They asked questions with NO SWAT TEAM. I’d hate to see what they do these days!

  • http://suzeraining.wordpress.com/ suz

    i think that plant in utah was not just “recently” opened.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, he could!

  • Anonymous

    Liberal Supreme Court Justices are not Constitutional , J. Roberts was pressured into passing Obamacare

  • Anonymous

    Bush and his dad were just as bad as Barry.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Maryanne-Greenberg/100002136565995 Maryanne Greenberg

    once we turn over our liberties to the government we loose  I don’t know how much more this country needs to have its face rubbed in before it get smart.  There are no entitlements, no measure of safety nothing for me to allow government to run amuck.  We are loosing ground and if IRS who has shown it is very much like the KGB has our health records along with government, we are toast because there is no place for us to go.  Do you understand this people, or are you so indifferent that  you don’t think it will ever hit you, or your kids or your grandkids.  Stop being stupid.

  • landofaahs

    Today is the 22nd.  As I contemplate Mr. Snowden and his situation, I can only thank God that someone exposes the villainy that those who purport to be operating on our behalf have wrought upon us.   One has to ask oneself if what is being exposed is something that the governments around the world already knew or whether or not it is only us sheeple who are all not in on the joke. 

  • Anonymous

    Reality check:  Much as some of us might like to think this happened, snopes dot com says this is not true.  It’s an old joke that was also used in a plot line in a 2002 novel that was recycled to attack Obama and make him look like a fool.

    C’mon, kidz.  We’re better than that.  Listen to what Glenn has been saying.  It’s hard.  Dang hard.  It’s one of the things we need to do to win this one.

  • Anonymous

    Time to get off the Obama kick.  Time to get off the Bush kick.  To kinda-sorta quote the old-time comic character Pogo: “We have met the enemy and he is us.”

  • Anonymous

    Oh, yeah…  One more thought.  In this fight, we must use the law against those who would seek to enslave us.  That includes those laws or bodies of law that “they” like to use against us (those laws often cut both ways).  Shove them in their faces.  Make them admit their hypocrisies.  Make them admit their lies.  Make them submit to the law.  In this case,  I refer specifically to .Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.  To wit:

    “No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy,
    family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and
    reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law
    against such interference or attacks.”

  • Anonymous

     Haven’t seen anything on The Blaze yet (maybe I missed it) but it seems that the government of the U.K. is in on the deal as well.  And even if the Canadian government is not (officially, anyway, search for a proposed law up there, C-30, which has some hauntingly familiar language), their citizens are being swept up in the U.S. dragnet as we speak.

  • landofaahs

    I have been out of the loop so long that I can’t say anything for sure except that the control freaks of govt. will use any tactic to keep power.  It is why I can say that Snowden and his kinf are a service even though there is the down side.  They are now saying he was a paid China spy.  Part of the demonization of the individual because too many people sympathize with him.  They have to make him out to be a devil of course all the while they are ignoring  a real devil named odumbass.
    Nobody can tell what is fact at this point but the initial sentiment is probably the closest since the govt had not had the chance to put the spimmeister in gear.

  • Anonymous

    What is it that Glenn has been saying? Something like “inside out, upside down”? That’s what’s going on now. Don’t feel bad. We’re all in the same boat.

  • Anonymous

     Are you an American giving your Country away to Israel, OR.. an Israeli claiming the United States on behalf of the State of Israel ?  

  • Anonymous

     My advice is to stop thinking in terms of, and expecting Western Governments to be loyal to their native peoples. Those days are gone for now.  The same forces let’s say ‘guiding’ Obama, are the same ones sitting on Cameron & Hollande’s shoulders, to name just a couple. 

    In the UK there’s been project ‘Echelon’ running for some time.

  • Anonymous

    Imagine how much these departments are spying on themselves now !

  • Anonymous

    It’s funny he scolded SCOTUS, on citizens united, when it appears it didn’t harm his ability to raise money. The man is still fundraising! Why? Is it for dem candidates, or for pony money for projects? Yet, as one points out, these programs have taken physical control over all data, but his records are scrubbed, or sealed. I remember Reid, made the statement that Romney, hadn’t paid taxes for years. No one could even ask him how he would know such a thing when only three years tax records are required. I thought how could he know such a thing!

  • Anonymous

    I would think most got it as a joke, imo.

  • Anonymous

    Power corrupts and absolute power currupts absolutely!  I don’t care what your political leanings are…power currupts you because we are all human and extremely weak.  If you have no moral grounding or belief in a higher power like God you have no basis to keep you from succombing to corruption!  Obama has no moral guideposts or religious believes that help him to fight the temptation which explains his insecurity and his paranoia   

  • Anonymous

    It’s too bad that Beck has spent the last five years demonizing the very folks (progressives) who are also outraged about this assault on our civil liberties. The progressive left and the libertarian right need to work together, and Beck’s hateful and deceitful reactionary propaganda has made this necessity well nigh impossible. 

  • Anonymous

     Wonder if Snowden could turn out to be our  Archduke Ferdinand moment?

  • Anonymous

    How come this hasn’t made it to FOX? 

  • Anonymous

    How come this hasn’t made it to FOX? 

  • Anonymous

    Where is all this whistleblower information getting us? Absolutely nowhere. No one is going to do anything about it. What’s the point except people are getting rich off this stuff; including politicians, talk radio – everyone except the hard working American people. We’re the ones getting the shaft. I’m really tired of all this talk but no action.

  • http://suzeraining.wordpress.com/ suz

    replying to zoo06:

    i’m first an american who is proud of my heritage.  these days it cannot be spoken, stated too much that jews (in america) have civil rights too and there’s a creeping danger to identify as a jew because we see the growing anti-semitism throughout europe which will, no doubt, come here.

    israel has a right to exist and defend itself while what surrounds her is murderous chaos — an enormous desire to kill every jew in it and out of it.

    the stripes representing the colonies are key.  they symbolize the forming of the founding idea of freedom.  i felt the need to paint this ‘flag’ a few years ago.  so, no, i’m not interested in giving my country away — i want it back.  i’m not israeli and if i was i don’t see how i would have any right to stake a claim on america but the two countries have had a very good relationship…up until now.

  • Anonymous

     Well I’d say you’re disrespecting your flag by defacing it, particularly with another Country’s, just as a matter of fact.  I’m not preaching since I burned, quite spectacularly, my own Country’s flag alongside the two in question !  For a photo shoot I might add.

    Israel isn’t defensive. That’s propaganda that’s been spread throughout the World for a long time (eg. I.D.F.).   It’s a fully offensive regime with the World’s 4th largest military, that drives ancestral peoples from their land, destroys their homes and crops. Bullies them, imposes sieges, builds segregation walls.  Imprisons and tortures children, attacks and murders aid-bearing civilians in International Waters, and bombs densely populated areas including hospitals and schools with conventional and chemical weapons.  All funded by the US tax payer.  Now you’re broke.  So how is giving away your Country’s prosperity related to patriotism ?  Particularly when it’s used so violently, and in denying other people their Freedom. I thought the Constitution supported that ?

    The anti-semitism you refer to is naturally related to things I mentioned above. Only it’s not anti-semitism. It’s anti-zionist.  Many Jews in Israel itself now see that what’s going on needs to stop and are on the same side as myself and ones you refer to as anti-semite !   More and more ex-IDF are speaking out about the atrocities they had to commit. So as I correct people that erroneously think it’s a Jewish problem, I must do the same to you.  I discriminate against no one religion. I respect all who observe their faith correctly and responsibly. Since there are so so many who now don’t, if anything I would be anti them all.  Seriously not worth the trouble they cause. Trouble that paradoxically goes against the teachings of the whole bloody lot of them. 

    I’d say if anything the Devil is running amok right now.  

    So my position is wrought from a Humanitarian perspective.  I’ve no vested interests.  The hard facts are Israel makes it’s own enemies.  And if anyone should know better than to treat human beings as they do, it’s the Jewish people.

  • http://suzeraining.wordpress.com/ suz

    you must think you make any sense by going into a litany of items israel has supposedly committed against the innocent.  try ganging up on those countries which deserve it, and there are oh so many.  i reiterate, regardless of your thinking israel is “defensive or offensive” is irrelevant — she has a right to fight to keep her people safe from the murderous chaos that surrounds her.  in no way shape or form can that behavior ever be acceptable to a sane, peaceful individual and country.  how you cannot recognize a tiny democratic country in the midst of several large hateful forces that seek to destroy it, is irresponsible and ignorant.  do i need to say to a grown up, no country is perfect?
    you asked about my flag:  it is true that changing any imagery on the u.s. flag from the original would be considered defacing it.  it is symbolic, referring to my previous post.  however, unlike you, i am proud of my country’s history good and bad because the idea of bad acts brings opportunity to not recommit.  unfortunately, we are not now experiencing a turning point in the country and this has to do w/our leadership.  it is because of that very corruption of power (bho and his unlove for the state of israel) that i paint this flag.  i don’t know where you’re from, but as an american i love that i have been taught to be free in my will, imagination and expression.  the flag is a painting.  it is my right to express it.

  • Anonymous

     The ill-feeling towards Israel is because it keeps on stealing land and treating a certain race of humans like dogs.  What don’t you get about that ?  Cause and effect. It’s as nature intended. It’s the laws of physics Jim.   Did a portion of the French not resist Nazi occupation ?  Would you resist Mexican or Canadian occupation ?  Of course you would, and more savagely and brutally – because you’re yippe kayee fully loaded Americans. 

    You used the term “supposedly committed” which is interesting.  If you wish to dispute any, and I mean any of those points please tell me which, and I can supply ample evidence and examples.  Maybe you haven’t been exposed to all that goes on..   Maybe you have and choose to ignore it, in which case you’re no real Christian in my book, nor any kind of compassionate human being (if not claiming to be Christian). 

  • http://suzeraining.wordpress.com/ suz

    whose jim?

    i can cite (all day) heinous acts (of just the palestinians alone) committed upon israelis and they celebrate/cheer every death of a jew along the way.  i do not take you at your word when you talk about the bad acts of israel — i know what’s going and i have no interest in a back and forth here.  you have focused on israel because you’re pre-deposed to.  back up and see the big picture — you will learn a lot more that way.  it’s correct/good/healthy to dislike government/tyranny — you should, but you’re not balanced in your thinking.  israel is not a country that wants to annihilate a people — look around and see who does.  this is essential to understanding tyranny.  

    you have not read my previous post carefully.  i am not christian.

    happy independence.

  • Anonymous

     HI Suz, hope you had a good Barbecue yesterday or whatever you did.

    em..  James T. Kirk – that was Scott’y catchphrase in Star Trek :-) 

    I did cover the possibility you’re not a Christian in that email – I’ve made that mistake before !

    I’ll condemn any violent act by any Palestinian. I’ve never applauded any violent act against anyone.  But this is David vs. Goliath x10.  The Israeli Army has been bombing the Gaza Strip frequently last few days. Always seems to when there’s big news elsewhere.. I don’t think if you went there you’d find much “cheer” nor “celebration” btw.  But they DO somehow rebuilt each time and carry on. Only to be bombed again.  I doubt I could carry on.  And Hamas – a democratically elected Government. But as it turns out Americans don’t like democracy for anyone else, unless it suits. That’s more like Global Hegemony.

    Back with Israel, I have no pre-depositions. I am free of any Religious bias, and free from Politics.  So I’m free !  I’d counter that in fact you would be the one indoctrinated to see things one way and one way only. If you take your Holy scriptures literally to the word, I’d go as far as brainwashing. In that circumstance I can’t see how one has free will.

    Israel is a Country that IS annihilating people. “We must do everything to insure they [the Palestinians] never do return … The old will die and the young will forget.” – DAVID BEN GURION. 1948.   Once again if you wish to enquire about any specifics fire away. The following website may help..  Just look into the other side with human eyes and try to imagine..

    http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

    I’ll leave you with this :-

    “Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs
    to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to
    impose the Jews on the Arabs… Surely it would be a crime against
    humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to
    the Jews partly or wholly as their national home”

    – MAHATMA GANDHI

  • http://suzeraining.wordpress.com/ suz

    “But as it turns out Americans don’t like democracy for anyone else, unless it suits.”

    don’t understand that comment whatsoever.

    “If you take your Holy scriptures literally to the word, I’d go as far as brainwashing. In that circumstance I can’t see how one has free will.”

    not religious just proud of what my people have been through and what must never be forgotten.  oh i have G-d alright.  yes i do.

    “The old will die and the young will forget.” – DAVID BEN GURION. 1948.”

    what is untrue about the statement?

    “Palestine belongs to the Arabs…”

    we cannot continue when the premise is wrong and every utterance of gandhi isn’t necessarily agreeable.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijS8mFP4I1A
    which is San Remo’s Mandate: Israel’s ‘Magna Carta’ – CBN.com

    which was long, long before the UN Resolution 181 from 1947.

  • Anonymous

     Hi Suz,

    The Democracy point – Hamas is democratically elected. Most Westerners object to the MB anywhere elected or not. Calls for democracy are crushed in Bahrain, Yemen, and Arabia while Regime’s were brutally overthrown elsewhere in it’s name.  The same forces dishing out all this ‘justice’ and selective democracy are the same forces that are screwing America. That’s what I don’t understand a lot of Becksters seeing..

    The Ben Gurion statement is of genocidal intent. No doubt.  I’m beginning to wonder about you ?

    Fact is, there is barely a Jew in all of Israel who has any genetic link to that part of the World.  They’re American, South American, Polish, Ukrainian, German…. you name it.  All you have to say is “I’m a Jew” and you can come live in the Sun, bully and shoot at old men and children in their homes, under the protection of the World’s 4th largest Army.  Then we’ll bulldoze their home whether they’re in it or not and build you a nice house there ! 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsRycBM8RpU 

    The kind of mentality that exists in these kind of circumstances.  So would you rather have a cup of tea and a chat with a kind old Arab man, or hang out with these loons, the likes of whom will be stoning and cursing old men and their families day after day ?

    And you think you have a problem with Mexicans !! 

    If they carried on like this and stoned YOUR old folks, not one of you would hesitate to shoot them dead.

  • http://suzeraining.wordpress.com/ suz

    firstly, not sure why we’re replying to each other in this story; secondly, i have no problem w/mexicans — don’t know where you got that; thirdly, i sent you a very small piece of the history of the very small swatch of land that is israel which is what this ‘conversation’ should be about and you do not respond to that; fourthly, israel has a very good and big army for such a small property — they invite any who would want to convert to come onto the land and contribute.  you can call this zionism or love of the holiest place on earth.  so?  fifthly, you show me a video of a hasidic who says “this is our home” and tells the palestinians to f-off.  so?  

    wonder all day long about me — i do not wonder about you.  i fear you.  i fear all people i cannot communicate with and meet at a common ground understanding.

    israel’s borders are the subject of the matter.  you cannot talk about its military and its people until we can, once and for all, agree that the land belongs to her.  when that is arrived at, then we can make concessions as to the bad acts committed on both sides.