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Glenn's Show Prep

BLOGApril 11, 2018

Christian attorney who helps rescue kids around the world says this simple thing inspires him

Nonprofit founder and author Bob Goff has a four-letter secret to his success: love.

Goff, whose new book, “Everybody, Always: Becoming Love in a World Full of Setbacks and Difficult People,” will debut next week, joined Glenn in the studio today to talk about “extravagant love” and the need for “courageous people” in a difficult world.

Goff uses his experience as an attorney to bring justice to places where crimes are overlooked by the culture. He shared the story of a little boy who was kidnapped by witch doctors in Uganda, brutally maimed and left for dead – but survived.

With Love Does, the nonprofit he founded in 2003, Goff gets to fight for kids like him. He pursued the death penalty for the witch doctor who nearly killed the little boy and won, sending a message to the rest of the country that kids will be protected.

Relying on a “childlike faith,” Goff has been able to show love in unexpected ways, and his message on today’s show was to encourage everyone to do the same in their own lives.

“Make your next courageous step, whatever that is,” Goff said.

This article provided courtesy of TheBlaze.

GLENN: So here's the thing: I've given up on politics. Because we keep playing this thing over and over and over again. And expecting different outcomes. And it seems to be the same outcome.

And I'm more of a believer in the individual and the individual going out and doing something. And just saying, you know what, I don't care what people tell me what I can and can't do. I don't care if they tell me that it's ridiculous.

Because it's not. If we just decide to do it. I want to introduce you to a guy, Bob Goff, who I think has a similar attitude. Welcome, Bob. How are you is this

BOB: Thanks a million for having me on. Good to be with you.

GLENN: You're an attorney from the San Diego area.

BOB: Yes, 30 years.

GLENN: And you're a best-selling author now. You have a new book out now called Everybody, Always. But your last one was Love Does.

I want you to give the audience, for anybody who doesn't know you, a sense of who you are. And start with -- start with the fact that you have no television in your house. And what happened on September 11th in your house with your children.

BOB: Yeah. Well, I was practicing law. Had -- I can't tell you about me without telling about sweet Maria Goth, my bride of 33 years, and then we have three kids. And this whole idea, living a purposeful life, like we're confronted with so much information, so much tragedy around us, one of the things that I decided to do was I was just going to start with my family. And so we decided to get rid of the television.

And when the -- when September 11th happened, I came home and I told the kids, there's something horrible that happened in the country.

And we sat around this table we have in the kitchen. And I said, if you have five minutes, in front of a leader in the world, what would you say to them? And I love -- my son was seven at the time, he said, you know what, I would invite them over for a sleepover. And that actually makes a lot of sense.

GLENN: It does.

BOB: Put your hand in the goldfish bowl. See if it makes a B. And it works.

So my 9-year-old said, I would ask them what they're hoping in. Because I would say, like, if you find out what people are hoping for, you find out a lot more about them.

And then our 11-year-old, she was the precocious one, she said, I would say this, if they couldn't come over for the sleepover, I would ask this leader if we could come over to their house and do an interview and ask them, what are you hoping for? And get a message of hope to pass on to another leader.

So we downloaded the CIA website. We felt like we were hacking into NORAD. We got the name of every leader in every country, figured out their addresses, and wrote them.

And we got a post office box. Because we didn't want Ahmadinejad to know where we went. (laughter)

And so we sent all these letters. And after school every day, we would go over. And so they would get the mail out. The kids would be in the backseat. They would ask me about these countries.

I'm like, I don't know. That's east of here apparently, but we always got the most pleasant notes. It was Tony Blair at the time. He said, like a jolly good show. Like forget it. But jolly good show.

GLENN: Right.

BOB: But then they got the leader of Bulgaria. He wrote to them. And he said, if you'll come to the palace in Sophia, I'll give you your interview.

Then the prime minister of Switzerland said, if you come to Bern, I'll give you your interview. Then the president of Israel said, if you'll come to Jerusalem, I'll give you -- we got 19 yeses. So I pulled the kids out of school. Their teachers had a cow. I'm like, sue me.

So there's something just really beautiful about that. And I love that it's this idea of a child-like faith. That idea -- look to your kids. You want to do something awesome for the world, plug into your family.

GLENN: Because you would -- as an adult -- and the older you get, the secret to staying young -- I think that's what Jesus meant when he said, come to me as a child.

BOB: Oh, bingo. Totally.

GLENN: You still believe. You haven't been worn down by the world to say, it won't work. It won't work.

BOB: Yeah. And if you've been convinced that it won't work, get a puppy. Literally, just --

GLENN: No, because then I'm convinced potty training doesn't work.

BOB: Yes. I worked it right in the middle of that. The only thing our dog has missed is the lawn so far.

But one of the things is that, let the children kind of lead us. And we're seeing that in society. We're seeing that over and over. Go do that with your family. So we went.

And there's this one country. They had just been involved in all kinds of stuff.

And the leader walks in. And he said, children, you know, I'm more nervous meeting with you, than if I was meeting with the president of the United States right now. And then he said, and when I get nervous, I get hungry. And he claps his hand. And all these servants come in with jars of candy and ice cream. It's just really beautiful.

There's something about this idea of leading with love. And it takes a child-like faith to get there. Not childish.

Because most of us guys have childish nailed. But child-like, to just remain hopeful, even in the face of overwhelming difficulties.

GLENN: One of the places you went to was Uganda, right?

BOB: Yeah.

GLENN: And we've done some stuff? Uganda. Because there's still sacrifices. Human sacrifices in Uganda with these witch doctors. And they kidnap children and they sacrifice them. And it's horrifying. And horrifying. And then you stop it in one place, and then it pops up in another place.

Because it's still part of their culture. But you being an attorney, you found that for a long time, there wasn't a law. But then like three years before you got there, they had passed a law to stop all this, but nobody was enforcing it.

Is that right?

BOB: Yeah, that's it. Because people were afraid. The judges were afraid. Everybody was afraid.

But it just takes courageous people to make big change. That idea to just -- and we don't measure. God doesn't compare our leaps. I would say for everybody listening, make your next courageous step. Whatever that is.

For me, I was a lawyer. Knew how to try cases. The problem with me, there's always child sacrifice. There's always a victim, but they're always dead. And it all changes.

A couple years ago, a little boy -- we'll just say his name is Charlie. He was walking home from school and gets abducted by the leader of all of these witch doctors.

And they -- they try to do this sacrifice. They cut off all his private parts and leave him for dead. But the kid doesn't die. So for the first time, we had a victim survived. We got the witch doctor.

So I asked, could we try Uganda's first death penalty case. And they said, you will never get a judge who will touch that. But then we found a judge. And we tried the case. And the word of this conviction went to 41 million people. And here was the message: You touch a kid. It's over.

There's something beautiful about that idea of like, there's no love without justice. But there's also no justice without love.

So after this conviction happens, the boy is all torn up. This attack happens with a machete. A doctor in Los Angeles, here's what happened. And he calls me up at home. He said, Bob, I heard what happened with this little kid, and I can fix him.

And I'm like, buddy, you didn't hear what got cut off, you can't fix that. And he's like, I'm the chief of surgery in Cedar-Sinai Medical Center. I can fix him.

And I said, what? So I drive up to Los Angeles. He takes out a piece of paper and he starts drawing out what he's going to do, which is way too much information.

And I asked him -- if they find that at the TSA, I'm going to jail.

And I said, how much would that cost? And he said, it would be staggering. But I'll do it for nothing. I'm like, I can afford nothing.

So I fly back to Uganda. We find the little boy in the bush. And my first stop is court, and I become his legal guardian. And we're flying back for this operation. And I get off the plane in London. And he's holding -- and he said, Father, can we just walk the rest of the way? I'm like, oh, buddy.

And I open up my laptop to see if there's any messages. This is the time when Obama is in office. And there's a message that says, White House. And the message is really short, it just says, we'd like to meet, Charlie. I thought it was some of my friends, like you guys, that would just pull a fast one.

And it's legit. And this kid that was standing in the bush in Uganda is now standing in the Oval Office. And I think, why does this happen? And here's the deal: It's that child like faith. And no matter what age you are, you can actually start thinking about what might be possible.

And I just want to continue to live into that. Even against all of the horrific things going on, to remain hopeful and engaged. Not just to put smiley faces on it. But, what's my next step? What's my next leap?

GLENN: So here's the thing that I think of all the time: If I have cancer -- for instance, go to a doctor over and over and over again. Something is wrong, but the doctors can't find it. If that's happened to you, you get to a point to where, I don't care if it's cancer. I just want to know, you know.

And I think there is hope, when -- when there is knowledge that there is something you can do, that -- whether it works or not. Is unknown.

But once you know -- I have no hope in a doctor who says, oh, you know, it's just a little spot on your lawn. And, you know, it's nothing. And he knows it's cancer. Don't tell me that. I'm hopeless.

Tell me it's cancer, and I can find hope.

We have to -- we have to not just be putting smiley faces on things and going, oh, no, it's not so bad. It is. It's bad. It's bad.

But now, take us from, it's bad, to how to find that hopeful place, when we come back.

Name of the book is Everybody, Always, by Bob Goff. G-O-F-F. Bob Goff. We continue in just a second.

GLENN: We're with Bob Goff. Amazing man.

Not a -- you know, not a Tony Robbins kind of guy who makes his living being a motivational speaker, but is truly motivational. And everybody that I've ever seen him in. Because it's -- he's infectious. Courage is contagious, and so is hope.

And Bob just made the point that we need to find hope. So how do you do that? How do you find real hope? In a sea of despair.

BOB: Yeah. No simple answer for anything. But the first thing that strung to my mind is, it's a life of engagement. And an idea of engaging the people around you. Engaging the issues around you.

But not necessarily with the petition, but engage it with everything that you've got, with your love, with your hope, with your energy. Find these things.

We were talking about a wrong that was done in Uganda. Engage it.

If you're good as a lawyer, go do a bunch of that. If you're good at loving people, go do a bunch of that. I don't want people to meet just my opinions, I want them to actually meet me. And the way to meet me is to be curious about them.

GLENN: So you -- when you sat down, I told you, you passed a test that almost no one passes. I think there's maybe been two people. And we've had great people in a career of 40 years. I've had great people around that I've interviewed.

I think -- I could honestly say two. Maybe there's been five, that have walked into the room, said, hello, to me and then said hello to Stu or the other people on the air.

But then the important thing, looked at the people who are holding the camera, doing the makeup, introducing yourself, looking them in the eye, and engaging with them. That rarely happens. Rarely.

It's sad. But to me, it's a test of, who are you really? And -- and you pass that. And from what I understand, you were out in the greenroom and you were out in the hallway and you were having conversations. You came in here and you started looking around. You're very observant. Which I think kind of passes all of us by, sometimes. We just kind of -- we just engage in the moment and do what we have to do with that person.

BOB: Yeah. I think each of us are looking for these same things in our life, like love and purpose and connection. And then authentic relationships. We just start skipping across the disk, we just turn our life into a bunch of transactions. And I just don't want to be -- I'm not a touchy-feely guy. I'm a trial lawyer.

GLENN: You don't seem like a trial lawyer.

BOB: I'm the only guy trying a 100-million-dollar case with a Mickey Mouse watch.

But I'll tell you, it will be the third month of the trial. And somebody in the box will say, Mickey Mouse watch. I'll be like, I just want -- but this whole idea, this overarching idea that we'll be known for our opinions, but remembered for our love. So I think each of us need to ask, what are we going to be remembered for?

GLENN: I want to -- I could spend a day with you.

But I want to come back here in a second, and show me how you remain optimistic, as a trial lawyer. I can't think of a worst job. I can't think of a worst job.

BOB: Yeah.

GLENN: You're surrounded by dirtbags, lying, the system, and yet you hold it. So give me some real life examples.

BOB: Well, I would say --

GLENN: Wait. Wait. When we come back.

GLENN: Welcome back. We're talking to an incredible guy. I could spend the day with. And he's just invited me to TP some houses for the rest of the day. His name is Bob Goth, the author of Everybody, Always.

And one of the happier guys that I think I've ever met. And you're a trial attorney! And I want to get into that. But we're going to run out of time. So let's start off with one of your philosophies, one of the things that you take away from the Jesus story. And that is, tell no one.

BOB: Yes. I love that big moment. It's this Simon Peter -- you know, Jesus says, who am I? And some say you are a teacher. And actually, he was an awesome teacher. Some say you're a prophet. And he was actually an awesome prophet. And then Simon Peter says, you're God.

And Jesus said, you nailed it. But I love that he said flesh and blood doesn't reveal that to you, but the spirit. And we have a lot of people where faith is important to them. And they're trying to, like, do the spirit's work. Like, just, they're trying to tell everybody what Jesus is.

Two verses later, he says, tell no one.

I love that. I don't think it's supposed to be a secret. I think he means, show them, don't tell them.

So show people what -- we'll know what we believe, when everybody sees what we do. I don't care when somebody says, I got a lot of things I believe. But see what I do. See what you do. You're doing this, you're just spreading a lot of hope for people.

GLENN: So you are -- so -- but do you set out to -- you know, another Jesus thing, and it kind of reminds me of you, pay no attention to what's going to happen tomorrow. Don't worry about tomorrow. Don't worry about where you're going to lay your head. Don't worry about any of it. Just go and do it. That seems to be your mantra.

BOB: Exactly. So know why you're doing what you're doing. So, for instance, I'm married. Got three kids. Two of them -- two of those are married. And I want to be a grandpa. Like, what more in the worst thing in the whole -- I just want that so bad.

GLENN: It's great.

BOB: I'm expecting. They're not expecting. I'm expecting every day.

My son actually with his wife went to Hawaii. He said it rained all week. I'm like, yes!

GLENN: Good.

BOB: More wine to the cabana.

(laughter)

BOB: So one of the things, if you know why you're doing what you're doing -- and I just want to be -- we were talking about being available. So I put my cell phone number in the back of a couple million books. And I get 100 calls a day. I can't get --

STU: It is legitimately the last sentence -- of the book, it talks about, if you ever want to talk about any of the ideas, my phone number is, give me a call sometime, if I can be helpful.

BOB: Isn't that awesome?

GLENN: It's crazy.

BOB: People don't follow vision. They follow availability. And I'm never the smartest guy, particularly right now, but I can be the most available guy in the room.

And so if you know why you're doing what you're doing.

GLENN: So how -- how do you do that?

BOB: I just get constantly interrupted. Like literally just constantly -- Jesus was constantly interrupting. People are tugging on his shirt, calling his name from trees. Just -- just live a life with constant interruptions.

And what it reminds me over and over again, is not to be efficient in the way that I love people, but to be extravagant. That was one of the hallmarks.

GLENN: What does that mean?

BOB: Just not giving people a little bit, just give them your best.

I got -- we took all the money from Loved Does and just gave it all away. And so we've been going around, building schools in countries. Which cracks me up, because my worst subject in school was school.

But we're actually pretty good at starting them. So we've got one in Uganda. One in Iraq. One in Somalia. We've got one going into a country that doesn't do that. That's in two weeks. What could possibly go wrong?

(laughter)

I'll check back in with you in three.

So one of the whole ideas is to fail trying. Don't fail watching anymore. Fail trying. So if you see something, don't just identify with that. But just say, what's my piece in that?

GLENN: We had guys yesterday, they were up in Indianapolis. And they had potholes in their town.

And they were reading -- you know, they knew how bad it was. And they were reading in the newspaper, that the state couldn't afford it. The city couldn't afford it. It was $700 billion or whatever to fix all the potholes. So they went to -- they took 50 bucks. They went to the hardware store. They bought asphalt. And they just started fixing potholes.

BOB: Done.

GLENN: Right. And what is amazing about this is so far the city knows about it and hasn't stopped them. I would think, immediately, oh, you're -- they're going to come -- they just didn't stop. They just went out and did it. But they're in their 20s too. They haven't lived a life of, don't do that.

BOB: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. What if the -- as you're constantly thinking about, what do you want to be remembered for? And I just want to be remembered for someone who is engaged. And here's the crazy part, like God isn't dazzled when you go across an ocean. He's wowed when you go across the street. This idea of loving your neighbor. I don't think it's just a metaphor for something else. I think it actually means love your neighbor.

We've got a mailman on our block. He's lousy at it. He's not a detail guy.

So we get everybody else -- actually, one of my neighbors was getting audited. I had to bring it over. Like, stinks to be you.

So Art, after 20 long years finally said he was going to retire. I'm like, praise the Lord.

(laughter)

And so we decided to make him the grand marshal of our parade. We have a parade on our block. Our block is only ten houses long on each side. And so 800 people showed up to see Art to let him know, just how much they loved him, even though he was a lousy mailman. Everybody in the whole community knew it. We got a convertible. We filled it full of envelopes. We just said, Art, throw them in the air. Do what you do every day.

STU: That's a great insult right there.

BOB: And there was such an outpouring of love towards this guy.

He called me up the next day and he said, Bob, I'm coming out of retirement. I'm like, no!

But what will happen, when people know that they're loved, when they actually know they're respected, this idea of being ready to make a defense for the hope that's within you, it doesn't mean to point bony fingers at people. They forget the last sentence. It says, with gentleness and respect.

And if we could just treat people with gentleness and respect, knowing that you've got beautiful things in your life. And God might be doing something different in your life than my life.

Last Saturday, there was a wedding planner that was praying for sunshine. And there was a farmer praying for rain. Right?

And it's just to assume that God is up to different things in other people's lives, and be a little more patient with them as we get there.

But to do the things, we can hope for a lot of things, but hope on the move. People say like love is a verb. I think hope is. I don't know about my grammar. But I'll tell you, hope on the move is unstoppable.

That's what your -- your guys were doing with the potholes. They're saying, that's hope on the move. I'm not waiting for permission. Your life is your permission.

Somebody like birthed you and said, go. Now go do beautiful, immense things, but do it with gentleness and respect. I can try death penalty cases against witch doctors, but that whole idea of loving your neighbor and loving the people, love your enemy. Right?

So after the trial, I started meeting with witch doctors. I sent out word on the bush radio that the consul general for Uganda is here, and I command every witch doctor to meet with me. Glenn, they came. I met with a thousand witch doctors. And they are creepy.

GLENN: Unbelievable.

BOB: They make dolls that look like me and stick stuff into them. No wonder I always have a headache.

So I asked these guys, what do you need? And they said, we don't know how to read or write.

So get this, I started a witch doctor school. We go teach them how to be witch doctors. They already know.

We teach them how to read and write. And the only books we have in witch doctor school are the Bible and Love Does. So this whole idea -- you should see our graduation ceremonies. I mean, they're awesome.

GLENN: Oh, I bet. It's unique.

BOB: Yeah, so I grabbed each of these witch doctors by the face, and I give them a kiss on the forehead. I want be every witch doctor's first kiss. And I just whisper to them, like, do good. Live your life in a way -- they're already the leaders in the community. Live a life in a way that gives great honor and respect to people.

GLENN: Okay. So I just want to take this back, as I understand this story, here's a guy I introduced to you 40 minutes ago. And it started at his table with his children on September 11th. They wrote a letter.

He first asked, what would you say to the world leaders? They respond. Most people would stop there. He said, let's write. And let's invite them to come here. Or we'll go there and interview them and find out what they hope for.

And 20 -- no, 19 of them said yes. Most people would go, okay. Well, we're not going to go -- they went to all 19?

BOB: Yeah.

GLENN: Went to all 19. Interviewed. While he was in Uganda. Finds problems. He's an attorney, he says, well, maybe I can just help. He starts to help. They invite you to be the -- they invite you, you think to be council. Meaning they wanted you to be a counselor and an attorney there. But you're actually an ambassador. Not of -- wait. You're not the ambassador from the United States to Uganda. You're the Uganda an ambassador to America, right?

BOB: The consul, yes.

GLENN: Consul.

So now you're educating witch doctors and teaching them how to do good.

That's a remarkable 15 years.

BOB: What if you just lived a life engaged. It wouldn't be any different than other people. Like, this whole idea of living an engaged life. We're not graded on a curve. Just engaged with the people around you, engage the people you love.

But engage them with love. Like, engage them with that child-like faith. And to see what would happen -- we would finish each interview with these world leaders. Like, what do you bring to some of these guys? Some places the chocolate would melt.

And so the kids brought the key to our front door. And they gave it to them in a little box. And they said, you know, we came over to your house. If you ever want to come to our house, here's the key to your front door. And you know what, somebody -- I'm going to tell you who, but they emailed from the embassy to our kids. Because they don't have my email address. It's the kids doing this. And they said, we'd like to use our key. And they did.

GLENN: Oh, you're kidding me.

BOB: Just engage people. See what will happen. Do a cannonball. Don't put your toe in the water. Grab your knees. And then just see what will happen. Start with your family. Let these concentric rings go out. If faith is a big deal, do it because faith is a big deal for you.

But don't try to talk everybody into it. God will let people know that he's around because he's there.

Like, it will just continue to reveal himself. And not in mystical ways.

It will just be by meeting loving people. So I want to be that guy. And I'm trying. And I'm not quite there. I always get my first call. It's always 5:00 in the morning from some dude in Atlanta. Because it's 8:00 in the morning there, and it's 5:00 in San Diego. I got my last call at midnight from two witch doctors in witch doctor school.

And they said, a little boy has been abducted. And this new witch doctor has taken them into the bush for a child sacrifice, but we know where he is. Should we go get the kid?

And I'm standing on my bed in my boxers, yelling into the phone, get the kid! And four hours later, I get a text message from these two guys that used to be bad guys, and they said, we've rescued the child, he's with his mother. And the last two words of the text message, Love Does.

I've spent my whole life avoiding the people Jesus spent his whole life engaging. And I've just said, I'm not going to avoid people anymore. I'm going to engage the people who creep me out. I'm not going to just avoid them, but I'm not going to engage them --

STU: Is that what this interview is about?

BOB: Oh, you want to know something great? The cover of Everybody, Always looks like a bunch of balloons. I flew over to Uganda after -- you know what it's like when you get a book cover, and they send all these samples. They all look hokey.

So I flew over Uganda. I got the witch doctors to make the cover out of their fingerprints.

(laughter)

GLENN: Wow. Wow.

BOB: But engage people. Engage people. They're like, what's this about? Actually, I'm going to write a book about loving people and loving the people that creep you out. And you guys used to creep me out a lot. You still creep a lot of people out. But I'm learning from you. You're actually teaching me more about love. Because I'm learning about you and your life. And I see who you're becoming. Not who you used to be. And it's starting to change me. They've actually taught me. I don't know if I've taught them anything. They're teaching me a ton.

GLENN: I have to tell you, Bob, and I don't know if you take this as a compliment or not. But I have worked -- but I've been around and worked with some of the biggest spiritual leaders of multiple faiths in the last 20 years.

And have met the worst and the best. Billy Graham. One of the best. I won't list some of the worst.

You may be the best preacher I've ever met. And it's not because you're preaching. It's because you're doing it. And that's the secret.

If we just stop preaching to each other and we stop trying to get each other baptized or trying to fix everybody's life by selling you X, Y, or Z, just live it yourself, it -- people change. People change.

BOB: You know why you're doing what you're doing.

I dressed up to come visit with you by taking off my baseball cap. I wear this Boston Red Sox hat, not because I'm a Red Sox fan. I haven't even gone to a baseball fan.

But one of the reasons I wear it, my neighbor across the street was a big Red Sox fan. And she was going to be with Jesus by the end of the week. So we made a deal. I said, I will wear your Red Sox hat for the rest of my life and represent the Sox here, but every time Jesus walks by you, you need to mention my name.

(laughter)

That's the first thing if I hear, I knew you not, I'm like, Carol!

So if you know why you're doing what you're doing, why you're engaging people in conversation, why you're doing it, it will give a lot of clarity to your life.

GLENN: You're amazing. Thank you so much.

BOB: Oh, thanks so much for having me and for making me feel so welcome and for spreading a lot of joy and hope to people.

GLENN: You bet. Thank you. Bob Goff. Everybody, Always. If that doesn't sell everyone in this audience on buying this book, I don't know what would.

Boy, one of my favorite interviews of all time. Thank you, Bob.

BOB: Good being with you, thank you.

GLENN: You bet.

What Happens if Israel SACRIFICES a Red Heifer?
RADIO

What Happens if Israel SACRIFICES a Red Heifer?

Rumors are spreading that Israelis are planning to sacrifice a red heifer around Passover. But will the sacrifice actually be made, what would it mean for Jews and Christians, and what would happen next? Shoreshim Ministries founder Bill Cloud joins Glenn to explain: Will it usher in the End Times? Will the Temple be rebuilt? What does a red heifer even symbolize? What happened the last time Israel found red heifers? Have they built an altar? Should Christians see this as a sign that Christ is returning soon? And should Christians even be focused on this at all?

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: It is. And we will tell you about that coming up. We have Bill Cloud on back on. He is the founder of Jacob's Tent Fellowship. Also, Shoreshim Ministries.

And he's probably -- he's taught Biblical prophecy for a long time. And what I like about him is, he's not like, we're all going to die, it's coming tomorrow. He takes a very tempered look at everything and just can give you the facts that we know. But we don't know if those are the facts that, you know, God was telling us to look for.

Is that a good explanation? Bill.

BILL: Well, I do try to be tempered.

I mean, I try to keep all of my theology, in this solar system.

GLENN: Yeah.

BILL: So, you know, I try to be that way.

GLENN: Okay. And you said yesterday, that sometimes, you know, what we think is going -- we're looking for, is not necessarily going to happen, the way we think it's going to happen.

Can you give me an example of that?

BILL: Well, yeah. In Matthew chapter 17, Josiah goes up to the top of the Mount with Peter, James, and John.

He's transfigured. His face is shining like a light.

The disciples see this. They're coming back down the mountain, and they're puzzled. Because they asked him, hey, we follow that the prophecy teachers of the day told us that Elijah could come first.

But you're already here. And you're obviously the messiah. So how come Elijah didn't come first. And he said, well, Elijah did. But you missed it.

Because you were looking for that Elijah. But you missed the whole message that John the Baptist was giving, the spirit and power of Elijah.

So that's the very quick example of, we can be looking at this. It has to look like this. It has to be this size. And everything else.

And the whole time, God is doing exactly what was said, just not the way we were looking for.

So as I said yesterday. It's very important, as we read these professes.

We interpret them. We think they will happen this way. Based on what we see going on in the world today.

But I sometimes -- and maybe even a lot of times. It doesn't happen the way we think. It just happens exactly the way God said. And it's usually after it happened, we can look and say, yeah. Okay. I see it now.

So that's an example. And that is very important, I believe. In going forward. And, you know, when we see all these things happening in the world.

GLENN: So I often have thought, if you were alive during Hitler's reign, especially if you had a front row seat to it, you had to have thought that Jesus was coming soon. But there were a lot of things that had not been accomplished. For instance, the reestablishment of Israel.

And then the gathering of Israel.

And so, you know, if you knew your Scriptures. You would go, well, no. I don't think so.

But it could happen quickly.

But now, a lot of really big things have happened.

What's -- what big prophecies have been fulfilled, and what is still out there, that we should be watching out for?

VOICE: Well, you mentioned the reestablishment of the nation of Israel in '48.

The capturing of the old city, and the reeducation of Jerusalem in '67. Which at that point, gave Jews access to the Temple Mount.

Although, temporarily. So the -- it's a big one. And I might say, that, you is still ongoing. And it has not come to its ultimate fruition.

GLENN: And what does that mean?

What does that mean? The regathering of Israel?

What does that mean exactly.

BILL: Well, to make a long story short. Because of transgression. Because of rebellion. Because of all these different sins, Israel was exiled. And to this day, a lot of Israel is still scattered through the nations. So there are these multiple prophecies about how until the last, they have gathered all of Israel into the land. To the point, this is the way Jeremiah puts it. That they will never talk about the exodus out of I didn't want. But they will talk about the exodus from all these different nations, and because we aren't talking in those terms just yet, that tells me it hasn't come to its ultimate fulfillment. But because we will talk about, in just a couple of days how God brought his people out of Egypt.

GLENN: Right.

BILL: So it's an ongoing thing. But that's a really big one. But, no, there are other things that are happening right now.

I think the Gazan War is something that is very significant. Because there are prophecies about Gaza about the land of the Philistines.

I think this war has the potential. I'm not going to make the prediction. But it has the potential to lead into other things. The attack the other night.

Iran was said to be, at least, you know, affiliated with, you know, what's going on with Gaza, and these kinds of things.

So there are things going on right now, that do set stage. Potentially, for some things to happen.

And that makes our day a little different right now.

GLENN: What -- what -- that you're saying, that Gaza could turn into.

What are you referring to?

BILL: Well, again, there are different prophecies about Gaza, how it's going to be. You know, basically. But here's the thing that jumps out at me. It's the fact that Hamas has played such a big role.

The Bible names Hamas by name. There are prophecies against Edom and Esau, and it says because of the Hamas, that you committed against your brother Jacob, which is translated violence, I'm going to deal with you.

And Obadiah, it says, because you've committed Hamas against your brother Jacob, I am going to deal with you.

In Genesis, before the days of Noah, before the flood, it says that Hamas filled the earth. So I do not believe that that is just some cosmic. That's God way before any of this, you know, we were even thought of.

God is already telling us things in the beginning, to be on the lookout.

So the fact that Hamas has been the instigator, primary instigator, as it relates to what's going on in the Gaza War right now. To me, something is very, very important. And that means, it has the potential to expand into other things. Other prophecies. They talk about the construction of Damascus. And it leading all the way up to what a lot of people are looking for in the War of Gog and Magog. So all of that is on the table, as a possibility.

Is it going to happen right now? Again, I don't know. There are things that could happen that could lead to these more dramatic events. So, anyway, that's --

GLENN: Well, the --

BILL: That's what I mean by the Gazan thing.

GLENN: Well, the destruction of Syria, Damascus could happen overnight. The return of the Jews to Israel, you would think that would be almost impossible. You know, one of the things I've been thinking lately. You know, disconnected from end time stuff.

If I were a Jew today. And I saw the whole world starting to heat up like this. There would come a time, when I would be like, you know, I'm going to Israel.

I will at least stand with my own people.

Because it's the only place, where I may not be persecuted, you know, without a shot of standing up.

BILL: Well, and I think that -- this is going to sound maybe a little bizarre.

But God's way, is to put pressure on people.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

BILL: To move them into a place that they want them to be. I mean, that's just the plain and simple fact.

GLENN: Yes.

BILL: So I don't discount that at all.

I think these things begin to unfold. It will become increasingly unpopular in the world. To be Jewish.

To be associated with Israel. To stand with Israel.

But at the same time, you know, God uses that pressure to kind of put people in the position, he wants them to be. To kind of put people in the position -- to kind of force his will. And it's always going to be for the best interest of his people.

But it doesn't feel very good at the time when you're being subjected to all that pressure.

GLENN: Do Iran and Russia and their alliance play a role in prophecy?

BILL: Well, a lot of people think so. I'm one of those. And based, primarily, on reading Ezekiel 38 and 9. This is -- I mentioned briefly a moment ago, the war of Gog and Magog. Right?

And so if you think -- if you read the prophecy, we don't have time to do that today. But if you think that Russia is the land of Magog, then I would say yes.

In fact, that prophecy talks about how this chief prince. This ruler, over the land of Magog will come from the far north. Well, if you start in Israel and go north.

If you go to the far north, you're in Russia.

So it seems that Russia would be involved. And, of course, the old Soviet Union was never a friend to Israel.

It was a line of Israel's enemies. If I were Netanyahu, I wouldn't trust Putin as long as I can spit.

So Russia is not a good guy in this regard. And then when you read that prophecy, Ezekiel 38:9, you'll see among the confederates, the first one that is mentioned is Persia, which of course is the ancient name for Iran.

Just kind of a sidebar here. Interesting to me, anyway. The name Iran, or the modern name Iran, is derived from the word Aryan.

Maybe it -- maybe that should tell you something.

GLENN: Yeah. I've always thought so.

Before we get into the Ark of the Covenant. Which I just find fascinating.

You said that we need to watch out for Esau.

Who is Esau in the Bible? And in modern times?

BILL: Well, Esau, of course, was the older brother of Jacob. He's all red and hairy, and he's impulsive. And he's a hunter, and all these kinds of things.

And he has no regard for the birthright. He has no regard for the covenant that God made with Abraham. Jacob is the more temperate one. He values these things that are eternal. So when Jacob obtained the blessing of his father Isaac, Esau vowed to kill him.

So as you read ahead in the prophecy, you will see, even though the man, Esau died, God still addresses Esau, also known as Edom, you know, centuries later, because of your hatred towards your brother, because of the hamas toward your brother, I am going to -- I am going to deal with you in the end.

And so to me, today, Esau is epitomized in those people, like Hamas. Like Hezbollah. They have this ancient hatred. And that's the way it's termed in Ezekiel chapter five.

And I would even include, Glenn, within that mix, all these people that are getting on the Golden Gate Bridge. And stopping traffic.

And doing all these protests and standing outside the New York University, last night.

Chanting death to America. In Dearborn, Michigan. I would include that, in the people that are identified as Esau from a Biblical point of view, not so much because they're descended from that.

GLENN: No. Because of their hatred. Unreasonable hatred.

BILL: Correct.

GLENN: Okay. When we come back, let me take a one-minute break, and then we will talk about the rebuilding of the temple and the Ark of the Covenant. Some say they know exactly where it is. And it's closer to the Temple Mount, than you might think.

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GLENN: Okay. So does the dome of the rock have to be destroyed for the third temple?

BILL: That's what most people think when they consider, you know, a building of the temple. Although, not everybody thinks that that is necessary.


And because there is some dispute about where the temple actually sat, where the Holy of Holies was.

There's a lot of religious -- where the dome of the rock is.

There was a gentleman, excuse me, back in the late '80s, early '90s.

A professor at the University. He felt that the holy of holies was actually a little north of the dome of the rock, at a place called the dome of the tablets of the spirits.

So most people believe that the dome of the rock has to go. There are some who believe that it's possible, that the temple could have -- it's not just north.

And technically speaking, could it be on the same platform. There's even a passage in revelation chapter seven. Where John is told to measure the temple of God. To leave the court outside. Leave that out.

The Gentiles. So some people have thought, well, maybe that is suggesting that there is going to be a temple, alongside either the dome of the rock.

Or the mosque. And, you know, I don't know. I find that problematic for a lot of reasons.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. Kind of like the burning of the red heifer right there, you know, in Arab territory.

It might be a problem with that.

BILL: That's right.

GLENN: So, you know, the Ark of the Covenant is where they kept the Ten Commandments. And I know it was real. I know it existed. I never, ever thought, we're going to find that.

We're going to find that? Is that important for the rebuilding of the temple?

BILL: Well, technically speaking. The second temple.

This is the one that was built after the Babylonian captivity. And then Herod expanded it. That, we did not have the Ark of the Covenant in it. And it was still considered the house of God.

So there's historical precedent for rebuilding the temple and not having the ark. However, there's prophecies that talk about, how the glory of the latter house is going to be greater than the first one. Referring to Solomon, which is referring to the Ark of the Covenant.

So technically, they could rebuild it without the ark.

However, there have been those in Israel, since the reunification of Jerusalem, who not only do they want to build a temple of the Temple Mount, but they want to find the Ark of the Covenant.

And there are a lot of traditions, as to what happened to the Ark of the Covenant.

Some say, that it went to Ethiopia, which I don't believe.

Some people say, that Jeremiah hid it in Mount Nebo which is Jordan. Some people believe it's outside the old city, buried. And then there are quite a number of people. And particularly, people close to the idea of rebuilding the temple.

Who believe it's buried somewhere, and underneath the Temple Mount.

That's not really a big secret honestly. It's all oar the internet.

GLENN: No. But I find, if you know something about the Temple Mount.

We'll come back to this in just a second.

Because there's somebody a labyrinth of temples underneath, et cetera, et cetera. But I can't see how those have not been, you know, exhaustively gone through by those of the Muslim religion.

We'll give more of those in just a second. Stand by.
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(OUT AT 10:29 AM)

GLENN: Welcome to the Glenn Beck Program.

We're glad you're here.

We're talking to bill cloud, as passover comes up on Monday.

We're talking about Biblical prophecies. Because there's a lot of stuff happening in the world right now.

Where a lot of people are going, you know. I think eye read about this someplace before.

But. No man knows when.

I mean, it could be a thousand years from now.

But it will happen at some point.

And we need to be aware. And I want to make this really clear. And, Bill, I think you'll back me up on this.

The Lord was not. He didn't look at Scriptures and was like, man. It doesn't have a snappy ending.

I want part two of this. So let me leave them on a scary cliffhanger.

The Book of Revelation was written, not to scare us.

But to say, look, all of these things will come to pass.

And it's almost. I think it's a blessing, that he says, and, you know, at this point, the seven-year clock starts to -- to tick off.

And he's telling us, this -- I'm not -- don't be shocked by these things.

They're going to be bad. And they're going to seem like they're never-ending.

But they're not.

And I'm telling you these things, so you have faith. And can make it through those times. Is that how you read it?

BILL: Absolutely. When you go to the Book of Revelation, by the way. And you look at the heading.

It says, the revelation of Jesus Christ. It does not say the revelation of the Antichrist or the tribulation or bold judgments and vile judges. It's about the Messiah. In fact, it says, in that book, that the essence of prophecy is the testimony of the messiah. The spirit of prophecy is about the messiah.

So everything about all this bad stuff, ultimately, it will point us to the messiah. Because all the bad stuff is just the Satan, and those who practice wickedness. Trying to stop the messiah from returning and sitting upon his throne in Jerusalem. To rule and reign.

So, yeah, it doesn't end on a bad note. It ends on what mankind, those who love and holiness had been longing for, since Adam was exiled from the garden.

A return, to be with God and God be in our midst. So that's the greatest thing that we could ever hope for. And all these things that we would see, is pointing us to that. So it's an excellent observation on your part.

It tells us these things. In fact, when he sat down on the Mount of Olives with his disciples. This is a -- by the way, Mount of Olives is where they will burn that red heifer when they do it. But anyway, he sits down on the Mount of Olives. And he says, tell me all these things, as you said, so you know this will happen.

But don't be dismayed. Don't fall in despair. I'm telling you these things, so that you will not be deceived.

I'm telling you these things, in advance, you won't be impulsive, and running after things that you shouldn't be running after. So when these things happen, keep your focus.

You know, kind of stay the course on what you know is true. So absolutely, I agree with you.

GLENN: Growing lawlessness is the sign of the last days. And we're seeing lawlessness, like I've never seen before.

Now, this has happened over and over again. Where societies have been lawless, and they collapse.

But lawlessness in the last days, it gives birth to the lawless one. Which is the Antichrist. Right?

BILL: Right. Exactly. That's exactly right. You know, a lot of people have thought, that the Antichrist have come to power. And he will create this lawless environment.

I believe a lawless environment gives birth to the lawless one. The final prediction of the Antichrist.

GLENN: To me, that -- that is -- makes sense.

We're -- you know, it was about 2000, oh, six. I was talking to Condoleezza Rice. And she used very specific language. She was on my show. And we were talking about, you know, what things look like now.

And, you know, what's coming our way. And she said, these things are birth pangs. Of the things to come.

And I thought, that was -- you know, rather unusual language for somebody to use.

Because it's very Scriptural.

BILL: Yeah. That's Biblical language for sure.

GLENN: Yeah, it is. And we are giving birth to something. I don't know if it's the -- you know, the Antichrist. Or the end times. Or just really, really bad times.

But there -- everything that we're seeing, these are like contractions and birth pangs. When things happen, you're like, ow. That hurt. And they're becoming faster and faster and closer and closer to one another.

We are giving birth to something.

BILL: Yeah. Well, in Hebrews, it's the birth pangs of the Messiah.

The Messiah is -- and his rule and reign, over the earth, that's what is -- that's what's being birthed. That's what's coming to fruition.

It's just in the process, the earth and everybody in it, has to go through these birth pangs.

Paul talks about how the earth is groaning and producing this travail and birth pangs. So that the sons of God will be revealed. That goes hand-in-glove with the messiah and his return. That's what's being birthed.

But just like in any birth, something that is wonderful. There's all this yuckiness, and pain and suffering.

Unfortunately, that pressure has to be there, to get those who are listening to the voice of the Lord, in the place that he wants them to be. And that is, not giving in to the lawlessness. Not giving in to the just crazy stuff, that society is pushing down our throats.

But to stay true, based on what Christians say.

So that's what's being birthed, as far as I'm concerned.

GLENN: Let me go back to the Ark of the Covenant. It seems like an Indiana Jones movie. It doesn't seem rule in some ways.

I know it is. Or I know it was.

But then it just kind of disappeared.

Nobody really knows what happened to it. People have been looking for it, forever.

And people are saying, it will be revealed. And some people believe it's under the Temple Mount.

I've stood, at the place where they say, right behind these stones, is where they think the holy of holies is.

Which is where they think the Ark of the Covenant is.

And it's a labyrinth of passageways and everything, underneath there. At least it used to be. But why -- why would it -- how could it possibly be still there, when, you know, the Muslims have been digging underneath the Temple Mount for a long time. And taking truckloads, of -- of dirt and antiquities out and just dumping them.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, how could it still be there?

You know, I don't know that I have the answer to that question. I will just say, my faith would say, if God wanted it to be there, it will still be there. He has a way of watching over things.

GLENN: Right.

But is it prophesied that it will be found and come back, or is this just something that some people think?

BILL: Well, the last time you see -- or you see a mention of the Ark of the Covenant. Is when Josiah tells the priest to take the Ark of the Covenant and put it in the house that Solomon had prepared for it. And, by the way, there are people who read into that. Well, the Ark of the Covenant was already in the temple. What is Josiah saying? Some people say, well, he was hiding it, because he knew the Babylonians were coming. And that's where some people think, well, it's hidden in somewhere around Jerusalem.

Most people close to the temple, are -- our rebuilt temple. Motivation. Think it's under the Temple Mount.

But, you know, it disappears from the record, is the point.

And the next time you see anything mentioned. It's in the Book of Revelation, actually.

After all this other stuff is over with.

All the bad stuff.

So, yeah. It is a big mystery.

I will tell you a quick story. Ninety-two.
I and another gentleman, along with an Israeli friend, we went to the office of Rabbi Yehuda Getz, who at that time was over all of the holy places in Jerusalem.

And to make a long story short, Rabbi Getz did not believe that the Ark of the Covenant was in Ethiopia. He did not believe it was there.

He felt very confident, he knew where the Ark of the Covenant was. And he did not tell us. But our Israeli friend, later told us, that in the early '80s, along with a lot of the men who were participants, in the relitigation of Jerusalem. '67. Actually, when these excavations begun, they were looking for the Ark of the Covenant. Because they believed that it was under the temple mount somewhere. I've even heard reports, that it was supposedly -- saw the place where it was kept. Now, I don't know that to be a fact.

So there are people who do believe it still exists. There are people that are in Jerusalem, who would love for that to be revealed. And I would suggest that if that were -- if you think the red of her will cause --

GLENN: Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. I mean, I can't imagine how that could be revealed, and the whole world not taking real significant note.

Whether you believe that the -- what's ever in it. Or that the remnants of the Ten Commandments. Or not.

It doesn't matter.

For the Ark of the Covenant to be revealed and come back.

That would say a lot, about Israel. About Jerusalem. About the times we live in. I mean, pretty much everything. Pretty much everything.

GLENN: Well, it still exists. And this is just my opinion. That's all it is, just an opinion.

I tend to believe that if it does exist, and it's going to be revealed.

Then it probably will coincide with the Messianic age, with the Messiah's return.

And I think that would probably be more likely. But that doesn't mean that there aren't people who would be very, very excited to be -- to have an opportunity. To find it, look for it. And if they could, bring it out.

And that would cause World War III, most likely.

GLENN: It probably would.

It's weird, Bill. When you're over there. You don't understand highway this little patch of land has caused so much turmoil really, in the world.

Why everybody seems to be -- you know, centered on that patch of land. Because it's not very big.

And it's almost like it's a pulse, you can feel it.

That Temple Mount. There's something about that area.

It's God's throne. And you can feel it.

It's amazing. It's amazing.

BILL: Exactly. Exactly. That, what you just said, is prophetic. Prophecy said, he will make Jerusalem burden themselves. And even more -- more so, the Temple Mount. Because that is where God's presence kissed the earth.

And the Ark of the Covenant was basically God's throne on earth.

So, yeah. It's a very contested piece of property, and it will be at the heart of conflict. Yes.

GLENN: Bill Cloud, thank you so much.

If you would like to follow him, you can follow him on his website at BillCloud.org. That's BillCloud.org.

The Right WON’T WIN Unless it Does THIS
RADIO

The Right WON’T WIN Unless it Does THIS

Recently, “America’s Cultural Revolution” author Christopher Rufo warned that “the Right faces an inflection point.” Instead of focusing on actually changing policies and culture, he argued, some on the Right have leaned into “conspiracy theories that lead nowhere.” Some of these, especially related to Israel, have caused massive debates. But how should we approach this divide? And what’s causing it? Christopher and Glenn make the case that the answer is self-discipline, NOT censorship, and providing better content than just “cheap attention” tweets. In order to win against the progressive elites, conservatives must get their own house in order first.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Last week, I saw Christopher Rufo, who I greatly admire.

Write and talk about something we don't need to talk about. But in that, he said, the right faces an reflection point. There are serious people, who are trying to advance a serious political movement, with a vision for governing.

There are also unserious people, who are willing to sell conspiracy. Leading us nowhere.

I care about politics, because I believe we have substantive work to do for the country. This requires putting together a coalition that is capable of taking responsibility. The choice is ours.

I responded to that. And people -- and I'm hoping Christopher didn't. But people thought that I was coming after Christopher and I, but I wasn't.

I was really frustrated with, he's right. But what does a serious option look like?

I said, I have great respect for Christopher Rufo. He has done more to expose the rot than many of us combined. But, Chris, the only option that I see that is viable is a return to the Constitution and Bill of Rights. All of our problems stem from the violation of these documents. Congress doesn't care.

Nor does it even attempt to do its job. Every administration is worse than the last. At this point, it is all powerful.

Supreme Court has trouble defining a woman. May God help us, with them defining any of the Amendments. Our Justice Department, Intel, and every agency has been co-opted by radicals. Those who believe in a constitutional republic are not the radicals. There is another option.

Return to e pluribus unum. The Bill of Rights and Constitution.

So I wanted to get Christopher on. Because I heard from so many people, that we were warring. And, Christopher, I'm sorry, if I've let anybody, to think I would stand against you.

Because I have some admiration for you.

CHRIS: Of course not. I didn't take any offense to it.

I found we were actually in agreement. I'm glad we have a chance to talk in greater depth.

I think you translation canned the problem there perfectly. But the question I'm raising is, how do we get there?

What kind of coalition do we need?

What kind of intellectual leadership, do we need? And then what kind of political leadership do we need?

And what I noticed on the right, especially on the horrific I can attacks against Jews in Israel, is that there's been a fragmentation.

And there's people chasing conspiracy theories. There's a rise. Kind of resurge answer, on the outer fringes of anti-Semitism on the right.

And then there are people elevating their profiles in media. On conspiracy theories, that lead nowhere, on kind of tabloid-style dossett that doesn't offer any kind of concrete possibility.

And so I think we have a media problem. And we have, in addition, a leadership problem.

GLENN: When you say a media problem, you mean the right media?

CHRIS: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I just -- I think if you look at kind of serious conservative media figures. And, of course, I would include you in this. You're always doing the reporting, the conversations, trying to guide people, towards something, that that they can do. Some legislation that politicians can pass. Some policy that we can adopt. Some counterculture that we can build. But I think given the dynamics of online media advertising, audience building, and then just the dynamics of kind of general tech and media trends.

Some people are being, you know, kind of generously rewarded with clicks and attention. Who don't actually offer anything substantive. And I think it gets some of our audience. And some of our listeners. In this outrage cycle.

Where they're outraged for outrage sake.

They're not being directed for guiding that outrage towards something constructive. And I've seen it. It can be really be damaging to people. And it's certainly damaging to a political movement.

And I don't think it's a failure of the audience. I think it's actually a failure of us, in the media, in positions of authority, in positions of leadership. You always have to guide people towards something that can make their lives better, and if we're not doing that, we're taking advantage, and we have to stop.

GLENN: So I completely agree with you.

So what is -- because we agree with the solution. And this is my point, back to you, was, I am very afraid of serious options. Because there is another split in the right. That is -- is willing to look at -- at extra constitutional solutions. And that's really dangerous. And starting to say, well, this Constitution, maybe it's old and dusty. Like the left has been saying.

No, no, no, no. No. All of our problems are solved, by two things.

One, the people living a better life. And I don't mean like, you're making more money. I mean, you're more decent, humble, and just better person. Plus, the rule of law. Being restored, as written.

So where do you see anybody coming up and really promoting that, Chris?

CHRIS: Well, I think that's exactly what we need to do. And I've been very vocal. There's a lot of frustration on the right. There's a lot of anxiety. But all of our problems can be solved through kind of normal -- Democratic -- peaceful Democratic means. We still have a great system.

But our system is atrophying because we're not using that system. And soiled point to the leadership of someone whom I admire very much. Governor Ron DeSantis in Florida. He had the same legislature, that Jeb Bush did. He had the same state Constitution.

And yet, he's using power effectively within the law, to make Florida a better state for people to live, work, and raise families.

And so I think we have to really discipline our own coalition, we have to stop engaging in these kind of fantasies, of extra judicial or extra parliamentary politics. And we have to say, if we are going to be the conservative, political party, the conservative political movement, we have to respect the documents that just be smarter. Be more persistent. Be more diligent.

In actually practicing politics. And so there are models out there, that are successful. And I think, we have another model of the kind of more, say, radical, extra constitutional model. That is the dismal failure. It's always been a dismal failure. When the left did it in the late 1960s and early 1970s, with those radical movements, the American people rejected them. If the right does it at any time, now or in the future, the people, the citizens will reject them.

It's a dead end. And we need media figures, that are kind of telling people to straighten out. To have self-discipline. To remind people of the constitutional principles that we're fighting for. And then to lay out a plausible plan.

Because people get desperate, when they think we have no other options. So it's our responsibility to show them the concrete options, not just spin out into conspiracy land.

GLENN: So, Chris, I do not -- I do not -- I don't listen to anybody else. I don't watch anybody else.

I read. But I have tried to cut my reading back to about four hours a day.

Because it's just poison. It's just all poison. But it's part of my job.

I have to read and be informed. So I don't -- but I don't hear things. You -- I am very concerned about just somebody doing something stupid. I'm also very concerned about this very, very small group of people.

That are Christian nationalists. But it's very small.

I am not concerned about the -- the average listener, if you will.


CHRIS: Correct.

GLENN: You seem to be -- I don't know if your concern is greater than mine.

And I'm pretty concerned about things. I want to -- I want to judge why -- what is it that you're feeling or is bringing this out, in such a passionate way? I want to make sure I'm not missing it.

CHRIS: Yeah. Well, I think we are approaching a critical period, in our country's history.

And, you know, I think the genesis of my comments. Was this -- you know, blowup between Candace Owens. And the Daily Wire. You know, Ben Shapiro's publication.

And, you know, I think that -- I tried to be disciplined. In my criticisms. People within our coalition. Within our movement.

But, you know, Candice had been arguing that there are secret gangs of Jews. Murdering people in Hollywood. She had rationalized Kanye West's, you know, kind of deranged antisemitic outbursts. She had been pushing stories about how the president of France's wife is actually a man. And these are stories that drive clicks. They drive controversy.

But they actually don't create anything substantive. And unfortunately, there is a kind of rising group of commentators and media figures. That have figured out, that the way to get cheap attention. Is to put forward stories like these.

And I just think that, we have to be, of course, kind of tolerant of a range of opinion.

But there also is an out of bound or a limit, that any political movement needs to maintain its own coherence and its own discipline.

GLENN: And you're not talking about censorship. You're just talking about self-control.

CHRIS: That's right. It's first self-discipline, and then it's also giving people a better option.

Of course, I don't think any of these opinions should be censored. They shouldn't be stricken from the record. The government shouldn't have any sway whatsoever.

But I think it's up to us, to have that discerning judgment. And to also show people, why this is such a limitation.

Why -- why it actually is not helpful.

And to get people out of this outrage cycle, that depletes them, and into a cycle of participation and politics in a real sense.

You know, politics is not, you know, tweeting conspiracy theories. Politics is actually winning elections. Changing the law. And managing institutions.

And so we needed a movement that is capable of doing that. And if we're not a movement that is capable of doing that, we don't deserve power.

We don't deserve to win, and we don't deserve to have our ideas shaping the law.

GLENN: I am -- we're talking to Christopher Rufo.

I am gravely concerned, that any time between now and really probably January 20th of next year, is the most dangerous place our republic may have ever been.

And that's including in the Civil War. We are -- we are at the edge of losing everything. Somebody does something stupid. We go to war. The economy collapses.

Whatever it is. There is -- there is a real shot, that we lose our freedom. It's happening all -- I mean, look what's happening in Brazil. This is -- this is happening all over the West, right now.

And I know, I have self-edited more than I've ever edited. Because I want to be very careful with my word.

Because I am so concerned, about the cries of dis and miss and malinformation. That will be wrongly pointed in people's direction by the state.

But it's important now, that we are speaking clearly. And as -- and as accurately, as we possibly can.

Do you feel the same way?

CHRIS: I feel the same way, and I'm very concerned about it. And I think this really dovetails nicely with my argument. If we don't have the self-discipline and if we engage in these kind of wild lines of media narratives.

It will provide, you know -- it's fake. But it will provide a kind of rationalization or justification for continued censorship. If the government and organized left, can point to a verifiably false conspiracy theories. They can then use it as justification for censorship.

Obviously, I don't support that. I think you should -- I think everyone has the right to say whatever they want. True, false, good or bad.

But, you know, we have to be realistic about it. And this is a major threat, of getting deplatformed. Of getting debanked.

GLENN: Yep.

CHRIS: Of getting kind of de-anonymized, exposed. And so we have to -- we unfortunately. Look, the New York Times can publish conspiracy theories for three years about Russiagate, they will be awarded the Pulitzer Prize, and they'll pay no price when it turns out to be all a pack of lies.

We don't have that luxury. I wish we did. But we have to take the reality for what it is.

We have to be more disciplined. We have to have higher standards. And we have to fight much smarter than our opponents.

That said, the good news, is that when we fight smart, like DeSantis has done in Florida.

There is a wide open vista of possibility for us.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

CHRIS: And we can truly create, you know, what I think of as a counter hegemony. That will create a bulwark or a defense against all of the awful things that the organized left is doing.

GLENN: Christopher Rufo, thank you so much. Thank you for being a friend. Friend of the show. And friend of freedom. Appreciate it.

How Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion WILL Create the Next Public Health Crisis | Glenn TV | Ep 348
SPECIALS

How Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion WILL Create the Next Public Health Crisis | Glenn TV | Ep 348

Everything is a “public health crisis” these days. Racism. Climate change. The lack of access to “gender-affirming care.” But there’s one ACTUAL public health crisis the far Left has created: diversity, equity, and inclusion. The future of YOUR health care is at stake as this dangerous reform movement is being forced upon American medical schools, all of the professional medical organizations, and hospitals, with total endorsement from Biden’s White House. Glenn Beck exposes how this academic cancer is changing medical school admissions and graduates, what caused this movement to accelerate, the real-world life-and-death consequences of this insanity for patients, and how any resistance to this movement brings swift crackdown from the Thought Police. Glenn is joined by Dr. Stanley Goldfarb, the founder of “Do No Harm,” a network of doctors, nurses, medical students, and patients working to get identity politics out of medicine. Dr. Goldfarb taught medicine at the University of Pennsylvania and published more than a hundred articles in the New England Journal of Medicine and other top medical journals. He debunks the racist claim that “black patients need black doctors” and sounds the alarm on deadly efforts to push unqualified doctors on patients.

EXCLUSIVE: Will RFK, Jr. Change Glenn's Mind?
THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

EXCLUSIVE: Will RFK, Jr. Change Glenn's Mind?

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. once called Glenn a traitor because he thought Glenn's opinions on climate change were "dangerous" and should be shut down. But now, he's one of the biggest CRITICS of censorship. So, what changed? Glenn decided to sit down with the independent presidential candidate to find out.