GLENN

Glenn Talks With Megan Phelps-Roper, Former Westboro Baptist Church Member

Megan Phelps-Roper joined Glenn on radio this week for an enlightening discussion about her conversion from Westboro Baptist Church member to someone focused on understanding and inclusion. Like Glenn, Phelps-Roper is a hopeful advocate for bringing people together through honest, civil conversations --- and she's laid out a four-step plan to do just that.

RELATED: 4 Steps to Break Down Walls From a Former Westboro Baptist Church Member

Enjoy the complimentary clip or read the transcript for details.

Welcome to the program, Megan, how are you?

MEGAN: I'm wonderful. How are you?

GLENN: I'm good. It's really an honor to talk to you. We're big fans of what you said in your TED talk, especially from where you started, you know, in a church that is more than a little tough.

MEGAN: Yes. Absolutely.

I grew up at the Westboro Baptist Church. And my family -- the church is almost entirely my family. So around 80 percent -- there's only 80 or so people in the church. And about 80 percent are people -- my grandfather is the one who founded the church. And my mother was the de facto spokesperson for a long time. So, yeah, I grew up on the picket line.

PAT: Yeah, you actually held those hate-filled signs at funerals and other places, right?

GLENN: When you were a kid.

MEGAN: Yes. Absolutely.

PAT: Yeah.

MEGAN: It started out as a protest at a local park, and it sort of really expanded from there. As soon as, you know -- my grandfather was very aggressive, kind of hostile personality. So when people started to come out to counterprotest, everybody who was against us became a target. And eventually -- what started out as it being a protest against gay people, became, you know, we were protesting against other Christians and Jews. It expanded rapidly, until literally everyone outside of our church became a target. And so it was basically a -- you know, I was marinating in this idealogy of everybody is against us. We are against everybody because they're all against the Scriptures. You know, memorizing chapter and verse why they're wrong and why they're headed for hell. And it's our duty to go out and warn them.

STU: I'm fascinated, Megan, because I think to my childhood, and I remember fun picnics and fun trips to amusement parks and things like that. Do you have those types of memories, or is it just -- is there a competition between that and you carrying some awful sign around during a protest?

MEGAN: No. I absolutely have those memories. My -- a lot of people have a hard time understanding that they -- other than these protests and that worldview, they're -- we were a very normal -- obviously there's a lot of kids in our family. There's 11 kids in my family. And -- but we played video games and read books. And we went to public school. And, yeah, we went to amusement parks. We did all of those things, but we also -- that was all sort of organized around this nationwide picketing campaign.

So I have -- I absolutely have both, but that -- that loving family -- the nature of that is part of what makes it so, so, so hard to leave or to even consider leaving. The idea of giving it all up.

GLENN: So I just had a guy in who we're going to interview on a program that I'm working on. He was a member of the Hitler Youth. Now, he's in his 80s now. But he came of age in the Hitler Youth, until I think World War II ended, when he was 20. And he still had -- he sees the world very differently. He thinks that Churchill is a war -- should be held for war crimes. A war criminal.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: And he doesn't agree with Hitler. But he said, I never saw -- we never saw any of that. At least he said, I didn't. I was in the front row of the 36 Olympics. You know, I -- I saw all the good stuff. And the bad stuff that was thrown up, you just dismissed it because you thought it was somebody that was trying to tear us down. Is that kind of the way your childhood was in a way?

MEGAN: Well, I mean, I know -- I knew at the time -- so, for instance, the funeral picketing, I knew at the time that it was hurtful. But the way that it was framed in our church was, you know, these people don't understand that they're headed for hell, for eternal destruction. And it's a loving thing to go and warn them.

And so I saw it as a necessary evil, like we had to go do this because this was the truth and the only thing that mattered, more than anything else was the truth. And it didn't matter how we said it, where we said, or in what context, it was always a good thing. And -- and it was a point of pride for us not to consider people's feelings.

GLENN: And the people -- and the people that were coming against you, because they were screaming back in your face, it only reinforced that these are bad people.

MEGAN: Absolutely. Especially because -- I mean, there's all these passages. So, for instance, Jesus talks about blessed are ye when men shall hate you and revile you and persecute you, for my name sake. So for us, like we wanted that. It was -- we expected it. It was confirmation that we were doing the Lord's work.

STU: Wow.

GLENN: Now, take us to how someone finally broke through.

MEGAN: So Twitter -- Twitter was -- and I didn't realize it at first. I didn't realize that it was happening exactly. But Twitter was an empathy machine for me.

I really hate how it's gotten such a bad rap because that platform has done more to teach me good communication and how to engage with people than almost anything else in my life.

So on Twitter, people would -- would come at me with the same kind of, you know, hateful rhetoric and loud, you know, accusations and just very bitter. And, again, I expected it.

And I would respond, you know, in kind. And -- but then some people -- and I don't know exactly why or what motivated them. I think they -- they saw -- they say that they saw something in me that maybe I would listen or something. But in any case, they stopped yelling and stopped, you know, insulting me and started to ask questions. And they were like -- they seemed like they were actually listening to me.

GLENN: They were honest questions. They were honest questions.

PAT: Yes.

GLENN: They weren't questions of setup.

MEGAN: Right. Exactly.

And it made me feel -- and because, again, I thought I was doing a good thing. I thought that those words that we were preaching, I thought that was the absolute, unquestionable truth. So I wanted to share it with them. That's why I was on social media.

And so I would, you know, answer their questions and sort of -- we had these back-and-forths. But then because of Twitter, I'm also seeing the photos they post of their children and their friends. And it just became this -- this way for me to see people as human beings. And it was because of the way -- because of the fact that they stopped -- the way they engaged me.

STU: That's incredible, that that came from Twitter too. Someone tweeted the other day, Instagram, my life is a party. Snapchat, my life is a quirky TV show. Facebook, my life turned out great. Twitter, we're all going to die. When I go on Twitter, man, I just get so depressed. But it's amazing you were able to take that out of this.

MEGAN: Yeah. I know. But there's a couple of things about Twitter that were really helpful to me. So like, for instance, the character limit, it first made me give up insults. Because at Westboro, we would include these elaborate insults when we responded to questions that people sent us by email. But on Twitter, there just wasn't space for it.

And also, Twitter was just this immediate feedback loop. If I did insult somebody, I could watch the conversation just derail in realtime. I could see that I wasn't getting my point across because I was too busy indulging that vengeful little voice in my head that wanted to call people names. I mean, we all have this feedback loop.

GLENN: Megan, I will tell you, I've been doing these kinds of experiments myself over the last couple of years, where I've gotten in -- because I just stopped engaging for a while. About years ago, I decided, you know what, I'm just going to answer everybody and assume the best. And just answer the -- the worst with something kind and try to be humble and kind and nice to everybody. Really hard to do.

And it's amazing the results. It's truly remarkable. It doesn't cure everybody by any stretch. But it's remarkable.

And I've talked about it on the air. And so many people say, it's not going to make a difference. You can't engage with them. They're all crazy. They're all whatever. What would you say to that?

MEGAN: Man, I just disagree so -- so much with the idea of hopelessness when it comes to talking to people.

I had -- I had grown up, you know, being -- basically cultivating this mindset of us versus them, being wary -- like specifically being wary of people's kindness. And even though I consciously was aware and trying not to be persuaded by kindness, it was still a powerful thing.

It's really interesting because over the past few years, I've been thinking about this a lot obviously. Because it's only been four years since I left. So it's kind of been just this huge -- you know, huge event in my life. And what you're describing there, about, you know, assuming the best and, you know, changing the way you respond. So if somebody comes at you angry and you respond in kindness and angry, that's called like, non-complimentary behavior. And we as human beings are wired to respond in kind.

But like you said, it's incredibly difficult to do. But we can cultivate a more useful mindset. Like one thing you said -- well, my mom used to tell me, to make sure my behavior was appropriate, I should add the word "judge" on to the end of my sentence, as in, "Here's why I did it, Judge." And I still use that trick, except now I add the word "friend." If someone attacks me and I start to get riled up, I try to pause for a beat and add friend, as if I'm disagreeing with someone I love. And I don't do it to be a goody two-shoes. I do it because it works. It's just so much more effective than anger or insults or hostility.

GLENN: All right. I want to get to -- you say there are four steps. And I want to get to those here in a second. Let me just ask you one more question, and then I have to take a quick break.

Do you -- are you well aware of how appropriately timed your discovery and your story is for the rest of the world?

MEGAN: I -- I just -- I hope that -- I hope that I can be a voice or that the story can be something that will help other people see the value in engaging. Because honestly, my experience has -- has given me so much hope. I never thought I would leave. And at first, when I first left, I thought that my family, there was no hope for most of my family. I don't believe that anymore. And I'm still reaching out to them. I'm still trying to convince them to see things other ways. And if there's hope for me, if I changed, I think that there's a lot of hope.

You know, I know that the political climate is so polarized right now, but I can't help but feel so hopeful.

GLENN: Megan Phelps-Roper. She'll continue with us here in just a second. You need to hear what her solution is. It's really a four-step process. And it's really pretty easy. Left the Westboro Baptist Church because of kindness. You want to hear her whole story. Watch the TED video because it's quite amazing.

[break]

Megan Phelps-Roper is a former member of the Westboro Baptist Church, where people were kind to her and started to talk to her. And she says, this really works. And, you know, you could be in the cult of a political part. And I think this works. I think we need this across all lines in the world right now.

Megan, you did a TED talk. You said there are four tips on how to talk to people who you disagree with.

MEGAN: Yes. Exactly.

You want me to tell them to you?

GLENN: Yeah. Sure.

MEGAN: So the first one is -- I think it's really important -- don't assume bad intent. It's so easy to look at -- I mean, Westboro is such an easy example. They've got these neon signs. It was so clearly obvious to everyone that we were hateful and evil and awful people.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

MEGAN: But underneath it was well-intentioned people trying to do what they believed was right. So it's really easy to look at the surface and assume the worst of people, assume you understand where they're coming from. But that almost immediately cuts you off from really understanding what they're about.

GLENN: It's one of the reasons why -- I've tried to cut the word evil out of my lexicon because we use that to -- too often. And we use it about people. And I really think most people have great intent. You know, Donald Trump, Barack Obama, you can disagree with either one of them, but neither one of them think they're doing evil. They think they're doing the right thing. You just don't see it that way.

MEGAN: Exactly. I think very few -- maybe sociopaths or psychopaths. And even then --

GLENN: Right.

MEGAN: People who are deliberately doing wrong, I think they're very, very, very few and far between.

GLENN: Yes. Right. And that doesn't mean you have to go along with it, but if you say to them or their followers, you know, your guy is evil, they stop listening to you.

MEGAN: Right. Exactly. And you stop asking questions to get to the bottom of it, which is the second point. Asking questions helps you bridge the gap between your point of view and theirs. It helps you understand where they're coming from actually. And it also signals to the people that you're talking to, that you're actually listening to them.

And that is a huge benefit to the dialogue because they -- they no longer -- they don't want to yell at you. They see that you want to understand. So they're much more willing to engage. So the second point is ask questions.

GLENN: And it matters that they're honest questions, not setup questions. Not a question where I know you're going to say one thing so I can give you the Scripture quote or whatever to beat you.

MEGAN: Exactly.

GLENN: It has to be a question that's not designed for me to win. We're going to take a quick break. Come back with the last two with Megan Phelps-Roper, when we come back.

(OUT AT 10:32AM)

GLENN: Megan Phelps-Roper, somebody that we saw on TED talk, giving a great TED talk on how to bring people together. She was in the -- she's a Phelps. So she's part of the founding family of the Westboro Baptist Church. And she got online and started making friends with people who were friendly to her, not just yelling at her all the time. And she said there are four things that if you really want to change people's minds, four ways of engaging people so that real conversations can take place. The first one is don't assume bad intent. Instead, assume good or neutral intent. The second, ask questions, as opposed to accusing. Ask honest questions. It will help people let them know they've been heard. And quite often, this is all that people want.

The third is stay calm. Welcome back to the program, Megan. Explain stay calm.

MEGAN: So this one is really difficult because the natural inclination is always to respond the way that somebody is -- is speaking to you. So when somebody comes at you with hostility, the instinct is to be defensive and to respond with hostility. But that just brings the conversation to an end quickly. But if you can learn to step back, calm down and -- and try to diffuse the anger -- and you can do it in a few ways.

So, for instance, I actually ended up marrying -- my husband was one of these Twitter friends who started out as this angry, sort of insulting --

GLENN: Wow.

MEGAN: We just got married seven months ago.

GLENN: Congratulations.

MEGAN: Thank you. So what he would do, for instance, he would tell a joke or recommend a book or start talking about music. He would sort of turn away from the hostility for a minute and then come back to it -- come back to it later.

You don't necessarily -- I mean, that's -- that can be a last resort. A lot of times just staying calm and speaking as if you were addressing a friend and not somebody that you hate and that you despise that you can't -- you can't stand to hear their words. It helps so much to keep the conversation going.

GLENN: Step four.

MEGAN: Step four is make the argument.

And this one -- this one seems obvious. But there's this argument that seems to have taken hold on both the left and the right. And I think it stems from the hopelessness you mentioned earlier. Oh, they're just too far gone. They can't be reasoned with. But where does that lead us?

It leaves us at loggerheads. Deadlocked. And no one wants to be there. So you make the argument because they don't understand -- your opponent doesn't necessarily understand your thinking and the way that you're approaching the problem. And by making the argument -- if you fail to do that, you're definitely not going to change someone's mind. You actually have to articulate the reasoning and the thought process behind your position.

And there's actually a fifth point that I would have included if I had enough time -- should I tell you now?

GLENN: Yeah, go ahead.

STU: We're breaking news here. The fifth point in Megan Phelps' TED talk.

GLENN: Go ahead.

(chuckling)

MEGAN: It's take heart. Changing hearts and minds is incremental work, and it takes patience and persistence. And you're not going to see results necessarily immediately, not right away, but we can't give up. You know, and you might not be the person to persuade somebody else to turn away from a bad position, but every interaction is an opportunity to help turn the tide. So stay the course, trust the process, and take heart.

GLENN: How many people -- how many people were like this to you?

MEGAN: Well, the ones who had the biggest impact -- I mean, a handful who were engaging me continually over the course of a couple of years, considering I had been in the church. I had been raised in this. And I was 24 when I got on Twitter. So I was, again, marinating in this ideology and this way of thinking. So the fact that it only took a couple of years to really affect me and how I saw things, I think that's pretty remarkable.

GLENN: So did your husband -- was there a time when your husband -- is now your husband --

MEGAN: Yeah.

GLENN: Was he falling in love with you at the time? Did that happen later? Did he say, I can't believe I'm saying this to you -- I mean, how did that happen?

MEGAN: Well, it's a -- it's a really strange -- it was a really strange dynamic because obviously I was at the church. And at Westboro, you could only marry somebody who was in the church. So we were having these discussions, and there was nothing -- it was like a Jane Austen novel, like nothing overt. Like we couldn't say how we were feeling to each other because it just wasn't acceptable. And he sensed that.

And -- but he also, again, saw that I was a human being. And he came to believe that I had a good heart.

GLENN: So would this have worked -- would this have worked without love?

MEGAN: Well, I think -- well, so here's the thing. I -- yes, I believe so. And the reason is that the very first interaction was with a friend. I mentioned him in the talk too. Jewlicious. His name is David Abitbol.

And so it was -- I think I was talking with him for a little over a year. And, again, he's asking these questions. And in the course of asking these questions, he was the one who found the first -- the first bit of internal inconsistency in Westboro's doctrines. And when I look back at how I responded to that -- so my husband -- I didn't actually start speaking to him until months after that. But when I think about how I responded to that first bit of internal inconsistency, that was when I first started to challenge, in my own mind, Westboro's doctrines.

GLENN: And you didn't let him know that.

MEGAN: No. For sure. As soon as he had made that point, I was actually terrified to speak to him again. I didn't even let on that I recognized that he was right. I just stopped speaking to him.

GLENN: Wow. What was the point, if you don't mind me asking?

MEGAN: Oh, yeah, no, not at all.

It was a sign that said "death penalty for fags."

GLENN: Oh, my gosh.

MEGAN: Yeah. So, of course -- we used, you know, the verses in Leviticus and also in Romans 1 that talk about how, you know, gays are worthy of death. And he brought up -- so he's Jewish. I was really surprised that he brought up Jesus, saying, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

And I didn't -- I just had never connected that that was talking about the death penalty. And we thought, we're not -- we're not casting stones. We're just preaching words.

And David said, "Yeah, but you're advocating that the government cast stones."

And so that -- when I brought that point to other members of the church, the response was just to double down. They never addressed the passage that -- you know, that contradicted us. They just reiterated the passages that supported us. And so that was the first time that -- and the way that I reconciled it in my own mind was I just stopped holding the sign because I didn't know how to defend it anymore. And I didn't believe in it.

GLENN: Did they tell you to stop talking to these people?

MEGAN: I don't think -- I don't think people quite realized how much -- I mean, they knew I was very active on Twitter, but I don't think they realized how much it was affecting the way that I was thinking. I honestly didn't -- didn't understand it either.

Because in my mind -- I think I was in denial about it because -- you are not supposed to be impacted by other people. You are not supposed to be anything, but preaching to them. You're not supposed to really, you know, care -- I was going to say care about them. It was a very strange dynamic. But I was in denial about it. And I think that definitely helped it seem to others as if it wasn't really having an impact on me also.

PAT: Is anybody in your family speaking with you? Do you have a relationship with anybody anymore in the family?

MEGAN: Not anybody in the church, no. But there has been over the last decade or so, about 20 or so people who have either left or have been kicked out of Westboro. And my brother actually, the morning of my high school graduation -- he's a year and a half older than me. We woke up and went downstairs, and all of his stuff was gone. And so I have -- I didn't get to speak with him for the eight and half years between when he left and when I left. But now we're really good friends. And he's wonderful.

PAT: What was he thrown out for?

MEGAN: No, he left actually.

PAT: Oh, he left on his own.

MEGAN: He left at 19. Yeah, he also had Scriptural objections to some things. And also the extreme -- he objected to the extreme level of control because everybody in the church -- we all lived within two blocks or so of one another and did everything together and were obviously not developing relationships with people outside. But the level of control is -- is really -- really, really extreme.

GLENN: Do they -- do you think this will just die out as the family dies out, or?

MEGAN: Actually, I thought about this. My sister and I would talk about this about how could the church end in a way that just wouldn't destroy everybody on the inside?

There's still about the same level of membership as there has been. Because a few people -- a few new converts have joined. And then, of course, my generation has now -- they're having kids. But there's not many.

GLENN: What kind of people would join -- what kind of people join this? They really believe -- the newcomers that come in --

STU: It's one thing to be raised in it, but to be converted as an adult.

GLENN: Decent people. Yeah.

MEGAN: So honestly, I've speculated about this too. So, for instance, my dad -- my dad joined the church long before the picketing started. He was only 16 at the time. And, you know, his family wasn't -- I mean, his mom had been divorced. I don't think he -- he was attracted to the love and unity and connection I think in my family. In the Phelps family, I think. And I think that's a draw for some people. And it really lends credence to the idea that they're doing what they're doing out of love, out of good intentions.

And, again, some people just, I think are drawn to that defense of the idea of having all the answers and knowing for sure what you believe and how you're supposed to live. Like, it's -- that was such a powerful thing. When I left and realized like, I don't -- I don't have that anymore. I don't have that sense of -- it's a very comforting sense of certainty. And, you know, nuance and questions and uncertainty are a lot more difficult to deal with. I think some people are attracted to that part of the church.

GLENN: Next time they're out protesting, what should people do?

MEGAN: I think engaging at protests is actually not a very effective thing because they're -- on picket lines, they're already in these attack/defend mindsets. I think the internet is a much -- you know, Twitter. There's a lot of them on Twitter now. I think that's a more effective way of engaging. But if you -- if you do see them and if you are moved to go and speak to them, just remember that -- that responding with, you know, yelling and name-calling, all those things, it just reinforces what they already believe. It's adding to, you know, their certainty that they're doing the right thing.

GLENN: It is really -- it's really great to talk to you. Megan Phelps-Roper. You can find her @MeganPhelps. That's her Twitter handle. @MeganPhelps.

Really great to talk to you. And thank you for sharing this. And I think you have an important voice that needs to be heard.

STU: And I will say, Megan, will you confirm this, because we got the fifth point out of you, we are 25 percent better than your TED talk.

MEGAN: Yeah, for sure.

GLENN: Megan, can we pay you an off-handed compliment. Stu wanted to say this, we said it during the break. And it's weird because it's exactly what we're talking about. We don't know each other. We don't talk to each other.

We look at people in the Westboro Baptist Church and think that their kids just must be dumb as a box of rocks. And just, oatmeal! Every answer is, oatmeal! (chuckling) And you're so articulate. I mean, it's amazing just to have that view shattered.

MEGAN: Thank you.

I will say -- I mean, another thing that's not so well-known about the church, education was really important in my family. Most of the people there -- many lawyers, people who work in health care, and IT. And they're very well educated.

PAT: Wow.

GLENN: Wow.

MEGAN: Which is partly I think what makes it so much more difficult for them to see outside of it. This is like a psychological thing where, by -- by having these very strong mostly internally consistent arguments, they -- they think they're so certain that they don't even question the -- they don't even question it.

GLENN: Amazing.

MEGAN: But, yeah, anyway...

GLENN: Thank you so much. @MeganPhelps. Thank you so much, Megan. Appreciate it.

MEGAN: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

GLENN: You bet.

TV

The REAL Reason Zohran Mamdani Is CRUSHING NYC's Mayoral Race | Glenn TV | Ep 465

A deadly epidemic has reached crisis levels across the United States. Two death cults — radical leftism and political Islam — are openly battling for control of our nation. Look no further than the New York City mayoral race for proof. It exposes a dangerous alliance of radical leftists, socialists, anarchists, and Islamists united in one toxic coalition to get Zohran Mamdani elected. But Glenn Beck argues these groups aren’t the root cause — they’re symptoms of a deeper crisis: a catastrophic lack of education. Plus, Glenn gives a front-row seat to his full remarks at his Mercury One charity event, where he reveals why he’s launching the Torch — a new mission to fight back with truth, history, and critical thinking.

RADIO

“Ungodly Atrocities!” - The War on Christians in Africa that the Media Ignores

Thousands of Christians in Nigeria are being murdered, and the world is barely paying attention. Glenn Beck speaks with Rep. Marlin Stutzman about his new bill with Senator Ted Cruz: The Nigeria Religious Freedom Accountability Act. This legislation would sanction Nigerian officials enforcing Sharia law and target those allowing violence against Christians. Boko Haram and radical jihadist groups have killed over 125,000 believers, destroyed hundreds of churches, and enslaved women and children as global leaders remain silent. Beck and Rep. Stutzman expose the truth about this ongoing genocide and call for urgent action to protect the innocent and defend religious freedom.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Marlin, welcome. How are you, sir?

MARLIN: Hey, I'm doing great, Glenn. Great to be with you.

GLENN: Yeah, I wanted to talk to you. You and Ted Cruz are introducing something today. And it is to protect the people in Nigeria. The Christians in Nigeria. Before you get to the bill, explain to America, what is happening that very few people are even aware of.

MARLIN: Yeah, no. You know, we've been focusing a lot on the Middle East. And there's obviously, you know, Christians and Jews and other sectarian groups in Syria that have been killed. Of course, the conflict in Gaza. But here in Africa, in Nigeria, since 2009, Boko Haram has killed 125,000 Christians, and the jihadist groups that are there are destroying hundreds of churches every month.

I mean, this is bad. I don't know if you have a chance. There's a video that's been floating around social media. Where the pastor, that's standing over some dead bodies in an open grave, and he's just pleading for help. And especially, particularly America. And so there's been a real genocide of Christians in particular, in Nigeria. And it's just a tragic situation that's going on there right now.

GLENN: Well, I know that the Nazarene Fund has been trying to get there for a while. But it is -- it's one of the most dangerous places in the world.

You know, Boko Haram is -- is really, really very dangerous. And it's not just this. I think in just since Trump has gotten into office, 7,000 Christians have been killed, and almost 8,000 Christians, women and children have been abducted. And they have been sold into slavery.

So, I mean, the -- the -- problem is just ungodly.

Ungodly. What does your bill do to stop this?

MARLIN: Yeah. So the Nigeria Religious Freedom Accountability Act, which is also sponsored by Senator Ted Cruz in the Senate. It targets sanctions on officials, in that country, who would enforce Sharia law, and would allow for any sort of violence against Christians. And also designates Nigeria as a country of particular concern for the administration to focus on this. And I think that this is -- has gotten some attention lately, in a really fast way. And I'm -- my hope is that we just keep building this momentum.

You know, one of the things, Glenn. I was really glad to see you in Fort Wayne and Auburn a couple weeks ago.

And as we talked a little bit about religious freedom, I think this is the issue that we all need to be focused on.

GLENN: It is.

MARLIN: Here in America, and as well as around the world, because if you don't have religious freedom, you don't have economic freedom.
You don't have all the other freedoms that we enjoy.

Because if you're going to allow jihadists to come into the country. And -- and just extinguish those they disagree with.

This is not the way humanity should behave, at all.

This is not stability, at all.

And so that's why this -- this is going to target those, hit them in the pocket. And hit them hard.

And I don't want to see us using the United States military, the police force around the world.

But we don't have to. But we can hit them with financial consequences. And that's what this bill does.

GLENN: Well, and I know.

And I don't want to give out any information, until it's time to give out information. But we're getting involved as well.

And I hope to be there in the first quarter of next year. Bringing this story to America.

Firsthand, so you can see what is going on.

Because I just -- I'm very concerned with everything that's happening around the world, including in Europe.

And what I think is coming here.

I mean, Texas. People in Texas, have no idea.

We are leading the -- the nation on -- on Sharia law. Building -- you know, communities. Here in Texas.

And the -- the state government is finally getting serious about it.

And they really need to.

But I think this -- this Sharia law thing, it is going to be the next big battle of the West.

MARLIN: Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.

No. I think you're right. And that's the thing, where with the -- the Muslim countries in the Middle East. Like the UAE, they have religious freedom. That's the model that we should be following.

GLENN: Yes.

MARLIN: That's why Syria is so critical right now. Syria is on this edge, where it could go one way or the other. And it really needs to -- we're pushing very hard for the new president there. Al-Sharaa to -- to allow for religious freedom.

Because there's -- it's a very diverse country. But, I mean, if you look at Africa, Christianity is growing in Africa, and I'm really good friends with Daniel Edah. He is running for president of the Benin in Africa. Wonderful, Christian man. And, you know, there are leaders that are stepping up in Africa, saying, we've had enough.

And they're speaking out. But now, the jihadists and the extremists are coming in. And trying to, you know, put the fear in them, by killing them and extinguishing them. And that just should not be allowed.

The global -- I mean, the global community needs to come together and say, you know, not in Africa. I mean, if we all know Africa's struggles for centuries, there's -- there are people there, that are really trying to build up that continent. And if this is allowed to happen, it just can't happen.

GLENN: I have to tell you, I've seen more real Christians, in the Middle East, than I've seen anywhere else in the world.

These -- I mean, these people know what their faith is. Because they're threatened. Their life is threatened all the time. All the time.

RADIO

The dark side of artificial intelligence: Amazon's 30,000 job cuts

Amazon, who famously promoted a high hourly rate to gain workers, is now set to eliminate 30 THOUSAND jobs in favor of artificial intelligence automation. This is a prime example of how artificial intelligence can be used in a negative way, and Glenn doesn't think American citizens will take too kindly to this...

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I want to talk to you about the story that I saw today. Bill Gates says climate change will not lead to humanity's demise. Pardon me?

Wait. Hold on just a second. Let me go back into the records here, and see. Let's see. What has he said? 2015. Climate change is a terrible problem, absolutely needs to be solved. Deserves to be a huge priority. It is the poorer people in tropical zones, who will get hit by climate change, as well as some ecosystems nobody wants to see disappear. The threat of climate change is dire. He said that just two years ago. It will be the greatest challenge the world has ever faced.

We must take it on. We must reach net zero emissions by 2050, to avoid a climate disaster. 2021, to avoid climate disaster.

We need to eliminate emissions from the ways we create electricity, grow food, make things move around, blah, blah, blah. No one will be hurt more by climate change than the world's poorest people. It's already worse than most models predicted.

To prevent climate change scenarios, we need breakthroughs. In key areas. He's now put billions of dollars behind the climate change movement. Now he says, not so bad!

Not so bad! Not so bad!

What the hell just happened?

Okay. What just happened. On a completely unrelated note, let me give you another story today. Amazon, the first company to say, $30 an hour! You come on in, and work in our warehouses, is $30 an hour.

30 is an interesting number, because they just laid off 30,000 people. Why?

Because they're going AI. Okay?

It's all going to be automated. Everything. This is the first -- this -- warning. This is the first -- what do you call that aftershocks, when you get the rumbles before the big earthquake?

You know, it's like pre-shock. Just the quick, quiet, very low on the Richter scale rumble. And you're like, what was that? What was that?

That's an earthquake coming. Things starting to shift. Just a little bit. Not the big one yet. Just a little shift.

STU: Chooses to use the term birth pangs for this.

GLENN: Yeah, birth pangs. Birth pangs are the things you have -- you're just having that first birth pang. Thirty thousand people laid off.

Now, remember, gosh. Think of the money they're saving, because they were paying everybody $30 an hour. Because they were such a great company. They care about people. Until they could replace all the people.

Now, why am I bringing that story up. Next to the Bill Gates story about climate change.

What do those stories have -- what do they have in common at all?

Power! And I don't mean just political or economic power, absolutely. That goes without saying. I mean, energy. The world is starving for energy.

I've got a story for you next hour. And I'm going to show you exactly where you have to be, whether you're for climate change -- you know, we've got to go all green, or we've got to go all in, on server farms. One way or another, I will tell you what you have to do, and it is imperative that you do it, next hour.

But here's what snapped together today: We have been seeing this movement, and I know that the world is about to change, and our system doesn't work. The two parties don't work. It doesn't cover everything. We have been fighting over communism or fascism. Both of them are wrong! Okay. They don't work.

And they've been sold exactly the same way, over and over. Except, global warming. Global warming has been the one thing that has not been out and out Marxist, until it had to be.

And then you're like, okay. All right. We want people to -- we want people to die, because it will save the earth. So we're absolutely, you know, antigrowth.

Okay?

Pretty easy to see what side you are on. At least for me. Pretty easy to see what side you're on.

I am for growth. I am for technology.

I am for an end to this global warming nonsense. Except, I am also pro-earth.

I think we have -- we have a responsibility to make sure we do things that are right for the earth.

I am absolutely pro-pharmaceuticals. Until I'm not pro-pharmaceuticals. Because I think the pharmaceutical companies have gotten out of control.

I am absolutely for doing everything we can, with our farmers, to be able to have them grow and grow food to feed the world. Until we start screwing with the food so much.

It's not really even meat anymore. And we don't really know where it's from. So am I for big ag, or against big ag?

Because I like parts of it. I don't like parts. Am I for the pharmaceutical companies, or against the pharmaceutical companies? Because I like the pharmaceutical companies, until I don't like the pharmaceutical companies.

Am I -- am I for the planet, or against the planet?

I like AI. But I'm also terrified of AI. Am I for AI or against AI?

I am for jobs. I am for people. So how can you be for people if you are AI?

Do you see how none of this works? Do you see how you are -- you are literally. We are already dividing ourselves into. We're being pulled apart.

I don't know. I have another thing I will do next hour. After I tell you the other thing next hour. Hope to get to this other thing. Where you don't know what the truth is anymore.

We are pulling ourselves completely apart. Right?

You don't know what the truth is. You don't know what to believe anymore.

Did Erika kill her husband Charlie Kirk? Please! But there are a lot of people that don't know. They don't know the truth. Why? Why don't they know the truth? Because people who don't believe in anything, will fall for everything! And we don't know what we believe anymore. We going to elect Mamdani?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. New York is going Marxist.

Maybe Islamist to some degree.

It's going that way. It's going to happen. So how is that going to work?

Hmm. I brought in a chalkboard. Because I was explaining this to Stu. And, Stu, I want you to help me with this.

Because as I was laying this out for you. It's because -- I want you to know. I divided this chalkboard into two categories. And they are not good or bad.

They just are. Okay? Because there are things that I like on both sides of the chalkboard. But I'm going to show you what you're going to be asked to choose from. Because these are how these two sides are going to end up in the end.

STU: Sort of like a great realignment?

GLENN: Yes. Yes. Okay.

STU: Okay.

GLENN: So on one side, we're going to have the global warming people. Well, I'm not for the global warming people. Because that's all degrowth. Right?

I'm not for that. I am for workers.
And I am kind of anti-AI. I don't want AI to take over everything and control everything.

STU: Right.

GLENN: Correct?

Right?

But at the same time, I am AI and tech driven.

I just announced something with AI, okay?

But I am for ethical AI. Global warming and degrowth?

No, I'm for drill, baby, drill.

But I am -- I am big business. But I'm not big business.

I believe in capitalism. I believe in ethical capitalism. But I don't mind big business. But I have a hard time with, I don't know. Some of these AI companies like Google and everybody else, that now seem to be in better with our government.

I don't want them in bed with our government.

STU: I was going to say, you mentioned Amazon, Amazon is a good example of this.

It's a company that is obviously, very much big business.

Also, seen as capitalism. So do you like that, do you not like that?

There are things that I like about Amazon. There's things I don't like about it.

GLENN: I don't like that. I don't like the fact that they're the government's server farms? I don't like that.

Big Pharma, there's lots of it I like. There's lots of it I don't like. I don't like control and digital IDs.

STU: Uh-huh.

GLENN: I'm anti-Marxist. That drill, baby, drill side, that's anti-Marxist. But it also leans globalist. I'm against that.

But it is for abundance. Growth, growth. Growth.

Abundance. Right?

On the other side, and I'm showing you how these things will line up.

The other side is global warming and key growth. Because it's also going to be pro worker. Anti-AI, anti-capitalist, Marxists.

But it's going to deemphasize degrowth and Marxism. It will be for real food. It will be MAHA. It will be local. It will be free trade. But not really.

Fair trade? Maybe. Maybe.

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: It will be --

STU: This classic free trade seems to align more with the other side.

GLENN: In the end, it will be a local farmers market. In the end, you will need to trade with one another, the way you want to trade. Okay? That's wait it will be sold. And it will be 15 minute cities. It will be 15-minute cities. Because the rest of the world is going to be AI, digital IDs, globalism, tracking everything, and this will be the anti-vat.

And so they will say, I will live in the 15-minute cities.

Remember, it will be growth and Marxism. But it will be packaged in a way, that we don't want to be that. We don't want to be that.

So I'll live in my 15-minute city. I don't need all of that technology. I don't need self-driving cars. I would rather know my neighbor. I would rather walk down the street, get my food, that I know I -- I know I get.

But I won't be able to do those things. But I don't want to do all those things with because I don't want to have the digital ID. Okay?

What you're going to get on one side, is in the end, going to be globalist and fascistic.

Global fascism on one side. The other side will be Marxist de-growth. These -- what I'm presenting to you, is pretty much especially on the Marxist de-growth side, the global warming side. That's going to be a utopia that will never survive. It will never survive. But that's the utopia that people are going to be offered. They are now going to be -- because global warming is now starting to be -- you know, a no-go zone.

It's going to be changed, and it's going to become pro-people, anti-tech, anti-big tech corporations.

It's going to become about anti-pharmaceutical companies. It will be about real food. It will be about health and MAHA. It's going to be about all the things that you probably go, I'm kind of for that stuff.

And the other side is going to be the other side of you that you're for. Well, I'm for capitalism. I'm for progress.

I'm for abundance. I'm for, you know, having energy.

This is the split, that is coming.

And I believe the Marxist global warming side is going to be extraordinarily appealing to a lot of people.

You may even have a -- right now, you'll hear this and go, I'm never going there.

Mark my words. It's going to be very difficult to see the difference of right and wrong.

Because everything is going to blur. On you.

Things that you think you're for, they're suddenly going to be for.

But are they actually for that? And that goes to both sides of this issue.

Because what's not on this chalkboard is the US Constitution.

This is the way the world will split. These are the choices, you're going to make.

Which way do you go?

There is a third way. And it's the US Constitution. That's not on the board. Because right now, that's not popular. No one is talking about it.

RADIO

The hidden culprit behind rising electric bills

Electric bills across the country are still going up, despite the prices of things like eggs and gas going down. Glenn explains how AI server farms, built by companies like Microsoft and Amazon, are likely to blame...

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: So can we talk about real issues?

Let me tell you about the coming blackout.

Right now, in the last few days, there is a group of lawmakers in the mid-Atlanta in the Maryland, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey. They're all sounding the alarm. And they're sounding the alarm. Because they believe, and I do too. That the worst power bill crisis in a generation is happening right now. Skyrocketing bills and strained grids.

How is it, this is happening?

We've drilled, baby, drilled. We've put new power plants online. Or old power plants we brought back online. They're saying, part of the problem is all this green new energy crap. Everybody is still saying, we have to have green energy. We have to have green energy. I just want you to hear this out in a second. But because I want to give you the reality of what's going on. Green energy is wonderful, I guess.

But it's absolutely a thing that will set us back hundred years plus. Okay? Green energy does not work for the America of 2000.

It certainly doesn't work today. Every single month, a new server farm is breaking ground somewhere in America. Once a month, that means 12 new server farms every year.

That will snowball. By the end of 2026, you will see them built and breaking ground maybe one a week. What we have so far, not building things small here. Each one of these data centers, which is feeding artificial intelligence, crypto, cloud computing.

They consume as much power as 50 homes all the time.

Told you at the beginning of the hour, Bill Gates has just come out and said, you know what,, you know, global warming is not as bad as you thought it was.

It's so laughable, because it's so transparent.

It's so evil.

It's not as bad as everybody thought it was.

We have to get off this global warming went. But we need power plants, I'll tell you that right now. Why? You know who Bill Gates' partner is? OpenAI. ChatGPT. Okay?

That's his partner. So we know why he's off this bandwagon. Because they're struggling, right now to find enough electricity, for what they're currently running.

Let alone the next generation of systems.

You have Google, Meta, Amazon, that are buying up land in every -- next to every major substation that they can find, because they know what's coming. But wait a minute. They're building it near substations. Wait. Wait.

Hold on. Are you taking the power from my home?

In many cases, yes!

Listen to this. This is from the international energy agency. This is something they just released. Global data center power will double by the end of 2026.

That is equivalent to adding another Japan to our energy demand.

Okay. Another Japan.

And that's just for computers and server farms. Adding Japan.

What are we building to be able to serve that? Not enough. Ireland has just begun restricting the new data centers. Now, here's what's going to happen. You're going to restrict them. And it's going to leave you in the past. Now, maybe you want to be left in the past. And that's what that chalkboard is about.

Maybe you want to be left in the past. But Ireland just said, no more server farms. Don't do it. Parts of the Netherlands. Singapore. Sweden. They are freezing construction now on all server farms. Because the grid can't handle the demand already. Tokyo's grid is so strained by the server farms that they have. Blackouts have already occurred in Tokyo during peak hours.

China, which is building a new coal fire plant. Every week, is rationing power to factories so they can keep the AI data hubs running.

So what happens when we shut down coal and install nuclear. And depend on sunshine and windmills. What happens?

Who's powering the cloud?

PJM. This is mid-Atlantic grid, PJM is one that runs it, one of the largest in the world. They say their grid in the mid-Atlantic is already at the breaking point. They have warned, quote, of critically tight capacity. Meaning, one bad to remember.

One bad heat wave. One bad cold spell. And you've got rolling blackouts.

Okay?

Why? Because the last administration retired reliable fossil fuel plants faster than we could replace them. We didn't replace them.

So we're already behind the eight ball. And now, the surge, and the search for power is on.

In Maryland alone. Energy production has dropped as consumption has surged. Why?

Because of the data centers. Virginia's data center corridor, which is, you know, the economic crown jewel of -- of Virginia. This giant data center corridor that happens in Virginia. It now consumes.

Now, today, you're still figuring out what AI does. Okay?

It now consumes one-fifth of Virginia's total energy output. One-fifth! Today!

Why is your electricity price going up?
Why have eggs gone down? They're back to over a dollar a dozen. Why has gas gone down. It's back to the price it was in 2018, 2019. Why is it that the prices have gone down? Yet your energy costs are skyrocketing?

ChatGPT. Amazon. AI. All the things -- Amazon just fired 30,000 people because they're going to replace them with electric robots and machines and AI. That takes power.

Imagine, you know, what happens to your price of housing, when you import 10 million people?

The price of housing goes through the roof. And nobody can afford a house. What happens to electricity, when the people aren't powered on food or have to live in a house, but just need electricity? When you have all that electricity demand for these AI systems and bots. Of course, the price is going to go through the roof.

Especially if we are at the same time that the -- the demand is going up. We're saying, limit the number of power plants. Let's go all are going to.

If you want green energy and you've known this. We've said this.

It's de-growth. But listen to me carefully. I'm not throwing you under the bus.

If you want green energy, then you have to recognize. And maybe you're fine with this. Probably are. No Bitcoin. No AI. And no modern digital economy. It doesn't exist.

If you want AI. And the server farms. And the EVs. And your self-driving car. Digital infrastructure.

You must start building power plants in your state, right now! The problem is, these two realities cannot co-exist. So we're going to see a split in the country. Okay?

The climate cult, as they're calling it, it's going to run head-long into artificial intelligence. And when that happens, lights go out, in your house. So what do you do? Let me give you two options.

If you live in a state, and you want to go net zero, you now have to demand, right now, that they top proving new server farms in your state, because that is in direct conflict with your green energy.

You cannot live in a state that is building new server farms or is supplying power to server farms across the border to another state. You must pass laws right now. And I'm not for this. But I'm just giving you the option if you're for green energy revolution. You must stop all server farms being built in your state.

Or they will bleed you try! And you must also pass a law saying, we are not selling our electricity, over state lines! For a server farm.

Got to do it. Got to do it now. You cannot run a trillion parameter AI model on fairy dust or solar power. Or wind power.

It doesn't happen.

Now, if you believe in innovation, if you believe in the free market, if you believe in progress. If you believe in AI.

You've got to call your state reps right now. And demand new stable, high output energy plants.

The president is saying, that all of these companies that are building these server farms, must be responsible for their own power.

They must build their own power plant.

You don't get anything from the grid!

But that's not happening.

So you need to go to your state rep and say, they cannot take the grid power.

They cannot take the power from the people. They have to create their own power. And I would say, and, in fact, if they want to do it, they must put some excess power into the grid, because they're the ones that will be able to build the nuclear power plant, not your state. They will! Gas, nuclear, hydro. Whatever it takes, you need to call your state and say, "We want power!" And we want the grids, and we want the server farms.

But if you are apathetic on this or if you're ignorant on this and you don't begin to act now, you are going to be -- you're going to be, you know, at the whims of whoever it is, that's running your state. California, we know which way you're going, but are you building server farms as well?

Because if you are, Utah, you should pass a law. We are not going to sell any more power to California because they will take your power, to fund their server farms, not the people. Their server farms. They will buy more power from you. Which, if they're buying it from you. Do you have enough for your server farms. And your people in your state.
Most likely, no! Unless you are doubling down on energy building, right now. This is the near-term problem.

Believe it or not, by the end of 2026, everybody will be very well aware of what energy is costing them. And what server farms are doing to the stability of our grid.

Unless people act right now. And, you know, it's one to things act at the federal level.

This has to be at your local level.

And, quite honestly, I want the energy in Texas. I am not -- I do not want to ship our energy someplace else for somebody else's server farm, if they're not pulling their own weight on electricity.

Because Texas is going to have server farms out the wazoo.

We are building the power plants. We're not building them fast enough.

But we are building tell me.

And until we know our population, which is growing exponentially. Our population can have the power they need to live, survive, and work!

And the power -- or, the server farms that we are building, they have their power as well.

There shouldn't be any -- there shouldn't be 1 kilowatt that is going across our border!

Especially to states who are green!
But this one is going to be up to you.