GLENNMarch 24, 2017

Glenn Talks With Megan Phelps-Roper, Former Westboro Baptist Church Member

Megan Phelps-Roper joined Glenn on radio this week for an enlightening discussion about her conversion from Westboro Baptist Church member to someone focused on understanding and inclusion. Like Glenn, Phelps-Roper is a hopeful advocate for bringing people together through honest, civil conversations --- and she's laid out a four-step plan to do just that.

Enjoy the complimentary clip or read the transcript for details.

Welcome to the program, Megan, how are you?

MEGAN: I'm wonderful. How are you?

GLENN: I'm good. It's really an honor to talk to you. We're big fans of what you said in your TED talk, especially from where you started, you know, in a church that is more than a little tough.

MEGAN: Yes. Absolutely.

I grew up at the Westboro Baptist Church. And my family -- the church is almost entirely my family. So around 80 percent -- there's only 80 or so people in the church. And about 80 percent are people -- my grandfather is the one who founded the church. And my mother was the de facto spokesperson for a long time. So, yeah, I grew up on the picket line.

PAT: Yeah, you actually held those hate-filled signs at funerals and other places, right?

GLENN: When you were a kid.

MEGAN: Yes. Absolutely.

PAT: Yeah.

MEGAN: It started out as a protest at a local park, and it sort of really expanded from there. As soon as, you know -- my grandfather was very aggressive, kind of hostile personality. So when people started to come out to counterprotest, everybody who was against us became a target. And eventually -- what started out as it being a protest against gay people, became, you know, we were protesting against other Christians and Jews. It expanded rapidly, until literally everyone outside of our church became a target. And so it was basically a -- you know, I was marinating in this idealogy of everybody is against us. We are against everybody because they're all against the Scriptures. You know, memorizing chapter and verse why they're wrong and why they're headed for hell. And it's our duty to go out and warn them.

STU: I'm fascinated, Megan, because I think to my childhood, and I remember fun picnics and fun trips to amusement parks and things like that. Do you have those types of memories, or is it just -- is there a competition between that and you carrying some awful sign around during a protest?

MEGAN: No. I absolutely have those memories. My -- a lot of people have a hard time understanding that they -- other than these protests and that worldview, they're -- we were a very normal -- obviously there's a lot of kids in our family. There's 11 kids in my family. And -- but we played video games and read books. And we went to public school. And, yeah, we went to amusement parks. We did all of those things, but we also -- that was all sort of organized around this nationwide picketing campaign.

So I have -- I absolutely have both, but that -- that loving family -- the nature of that is part of what makes it so, so, so hard to leave or to even consider leaving. The idea of giving it all up.

GLENN: So I just had a guy in who we're going to interview on a program that I'm working on. He was a member of the Hitler Youth. Now, he's in his 80s now. But he came of age in the Hitler Youth, until I think World War II ended, when he was 20. And he still had -- he sees the world very differently. He thinks that Churchill is a war -- should be held for war crimes. A war criminal.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: And he doesn't agree with Hitler. But he said, I never saw -- we never saw any of that. At least he said, I didn't. I was in the front row of the 36 Olympics. You know, I -- I saw all the good stuff. And the bad stuff that was thrown up, you just dismissed it because you thought it was somebody that was trying to tear us down. Is that kind of the way your childhood was in a way?

MEGAN: Well, I mean, I know -- I knew at the time -- so, for instance, the funeral picketing, I knew at the time that it was hurtful. But the way that it was framed in our church was, you know, these people don't understand that they're headed for hell, for eternal destruction. And it's a loving thing to go and warn them.

And so I saw it as a necessary evil, like we had to go do this because this was the truth and the only thing that mattered, more than anything else was the truth. And it didn't matter how we said it, where we said, or in what context, it was always a good thing. And -- and it was a point of pride for us not to consider people's feelings.

GLENN: And the people -- and the people that were coming against you, because they were screaming back in your face, it only reinforced that these are bad people.

MEGAN: Absolutely. Especially because -- I mean, there's all these passages. So, for instance, Jesus talks about blessed are ye when men shall hate you and revile you and persecute you, for my name sake. So for us, like we wanted that. It was -- we expected it. It was confirmation that we were doing the Lord's work.

STU: Wow.

GLENN: Now, take us to how someone finally broke through.

MEGAN: So Twitter -- Twitter was -- and I didn't realize it at first. I didn't realize that it was happening exactly. But Twitter was an empathy machine for me.

I really hate how it's gotten such a bad rap because that platform has done more to teach me good communication and how to engage with people than almost anything else in my life.

So on Twitter, people would -- would come at me with the same kind of, you know, hateful rhetoric and loud, you know, accusations and just very bitter. And, again, I expected it.

And I would respond, you know, in kind. And -- but then some people -- and I don't know exactly why or what motivated them. I think they -- they saw -- they say that they saw something in me that maybe I would listen or something. But in any case, they stopped yelling and stopped, you know, insulting me and started to ask questions. And they were like -- they seemed like they were actually listening to me.

GLENN: They were honest questions. They were honest questions.

PAT: Yes.

GLENN: They weren't questions of setup.

MEGAN: Right. Exactly.

And it made me feel -- and because, again, I thought I was doing a good thing. I thought that those words that we were preaching, I thought that was the absolute, unquestionable truth. So I wanted to share it with them. That's why I was on social media.

And so I would, you know, answer their questions and sort of -- we had these back-and-forths. But then because of Twitter, I'm also seeing the photos they post of their children and their friends. And it just became this -- this way for me to see people as human beings. And it was because of the way -- because of the fact that they stopped -- the way they engaged me.

STU: That's incredible, that that came from Twitter too. Someone tweeted the other day, Instagram, my life is a party. Snapchat, my life is a quirky TV show. Facebook, my life turned out great. Twitter, we're all going to die. When I go on Twitter, man, I just get so depressed. But it's amazing you were able to take that out of this.

MEGAN: Yeah. I know. But there's a couple of things about Twitter that were really helpful to me. So like, for instance, the character limit, it first made me give up insults. Because at Westboro, we would include these elaborate insults when we responded to questions that people sent us by email. But on Twitter, there just wasn't space for it.

And also, Twitter was just this immediate feedback loop. If I did insult somebody, I could watch the conversation just derail in realtime. I could see that I wasn't getting my point across because I was too busy indulging that vengeful little voice in my head that wanted to call people names. I mean, we all have this feedback loop.

GLENN: Megan, I will tell you, I've been doing these kinds of experiments myself over the last couple of years, where I've gotten in -- because I just stopped engaging for a while. About years ago, I decided, you know what, I'm just going to answer everybody and assume the best. And just answer the -- the worst with something kind and try to be humble and kind and nice to everybody. Really hard to do.

And it's amazing the results. It's truly remarkable. It doesn't cure everybody by any stretch. But it's remarkable.

And I've talked about it on the air. And so many people say, it's not going to make a difference. You can't engage with them. They're all crazy. They're all whatever. What would you say to that?

MEGAN: Man, I just disagree so -- so much with the idea of hopelessness when it comes to talking to people.

I had -- I had grown up, you know, being -- basically cultivating this mindset of us versus them, being wary -- like specifically being wary of people's kindness. And even though I consciously was aware and trying not to be persuaded by kindness, it was still a powerful thing.

It's really interesting because over the past few years, I've been thinking about this a lot obviously. Because it's only been four years since I left. So it's kind of been just this huge -- you know, huge event in my life. And what you're describing there, about, you know, assuming the best and, you know, changing the way you respond. So if somebody comes at you angry and you respond in kindness and angry, that's called like, non-complimentary behavior. And we as human beings are wired to respond in kind.

But like you said, it's incredibly difficult to do. But we can cultivate a more useful mindset. Like one thing you said -- well, my mom used to tell me, to make sure my behavior was appropriate, I should add the word "judge" on to the end of my sentence, as in, "Here's why I did it, Judge." And I still use that trick, except now I add the word "friend." If someone attacks me and I start to get riled up, I try to pause for a beat and add friend, as if I'm disagreeing with someone I love. And I don't do it to be a goody two-shoes. I do it because it works. It's just so much more effective than anger or insults or hostility.

GLENN: All right. I want to get to -- you say there are four steps. And I want to get to those here in a second. Let me just ask you one more question, and then I have to take a quick break.

Do you -- are you well aware of how appropriately timed your discovery and your story is for the rest of the world?

MEGAN: I -- I just -- I hope that -- I hope that I can be a voice or that the story can be something that will help other people see the value in engaging. Because honestly, my experience has -- has given me so much hope. I never thought I would leave. And at first, when I first left, I thought that my family, there was no hope for most of my family. I don't believe that anymore. And I'm still reaching out to them. I'm still trying to convince them to see things other ways. And if there's hope for me, if I changed, I think that there's a lot of hope.

You know, I know that the political climate is so polarized right now, but I can't help but feel so hopeful.

GLENN: Megan Phelps-Roper. She'll continue with us here in just a second. You need to hear what her solution is. It's really a four-step process. And it's really pretty easy. Left the Westboro Baptist Church because of kindness. You want to hear her whole story. Watch the TED video because it's quite amazing.

[break]

Megan Phelps-Roper is a former member of the Westboro Baptist Church, where people were kind to her and started to talk to her. And she says, this really works. And, you know, you could be in the cult of a political part. And I think this works. I think we need this across all lines in the world right now.

Megan, you did a TED talk. You said there are four tips on how to talk to people who you disagree with.

MEGAN: Yes. Exactly.

You want me to tell them to you?

GLENN: Yeah. Sure.

MEGAN: So the first one is -- I think it's really important -- don't assume bad intent. It's so easy to look at -- I mean, Westboro is such an easy example. They've got these neon signs. It was so clearly obvious to everyone that we were hateful and evil and awful people.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

MEGAN: But underneath it was well-intentioned people trying to do what they believed was right. So it's really easy to look at the surface and assume the worst of people, assume you understand where they're coming from. But that almost immediately cuts you off from really understanding what they're about.

GLENN: It's one of the reasons why -- I've tried to cut the word evil out of my lexicon because we use that to -- too often. And we use it about people. And I really think most people have great intent. You know, Donald Trump, Barack Obama, you can disagree with either one of them, but neither one of them think they're doing evil. They think they're doing the right thing. You just don't see it that way.

MEGAN: Exactly. I think very few -- maybe sociopaths or psychopaths. And even then --

GLENN: Right.

MEGAN: People who are deliberately doing wrong, I think they're very, very, very few and far between.

GLENN: Yes. Right. And that doesn't mean you have to go along with it, but if you say to them or their followers, you know, your guy is evil, they stop listening to you.

MEGAN: Right. Exactly. And you stop asking questions to get to the bottom of it, which is the second point. Asking questions helps you bridge the gap between your point of view and theirs. It helps you understand where they're coming from actually. And it also signals to the people that you're talking to, that you're actually listening to them.

And that is a huge benefit to the dialogue because they -- they no longer -- they don't want to yell at you. They see that you want to understand. So they're much more willing to engage. So the second point is ask questions.

GLENN: And it matters that they're honest questions, not setup questions. Not a question where I know you're going to say one thing so I can give you the Scripture quote or whatever to beat you.

MEGAN: Exactly.

GLENN: It has to be a question that's not designed for me to win. We're going to take a quick break. Come back with the last two with Megan Phelps-Roper, when we come back.

(OUT AT 10:32AM)

GLENN: Megan Phelps-Roper, somebody that we saw on TED talk, giving a great TED talk on how to bring people together. She was in the -- she's a Phelps. So she's part of the founding family of the Westboro Baptist Church. And she got online and started making friends with people who were friendly to her, not just yelling at her all the time. And she said there are four things that if you really want to change people's minds, four ways of engaging people so that real conversations can take place. The first one is don't assume bad intent. Instead, assume good or neutral intent. The second, ask questions, as opposed to accusing. Ask honest questions. It will help people let them know they've been heard. And quite often, this is all that people want.

The third is stay calm. Welcome back to the program, Megan. Explain stay calm.

MEGAN: So this one is really difficult because the natural inclination is always to respond the way that somebody is -- is speaking to you. So when somebody comes at you with hostility, the instinct is to be defensive and to respond with hostility. But that just brings the conversation to an end quickly. But if you can learn to step back, calm down and -- and try to diffuse the anger -- and you can do it in a few ways.

So, for instance, I actually ended up marrying -- my husband was one of these Twitter friends who started out as this angry, sort of insulting --

GLENN: Wow.

MEGAN: We just got married seven months ago.

GLENN: Congratulations.

MEGAN: Thank you. So what he would do, for instance, he would tell a joke or recommend a book or start talking about music. He would sort of turn away from the hostility for a minute and then come back to it -- come back to it later.

You don't necessarily -- I mean, that's -- that can be a last resort. A lot of times just staying calm and speaking as if you were addressing a friend and not somebody that you hate and that you despise that you can't -- you can't stand to hear their words. It helps so much to keep the conversation going.

GLENN: Step four.

MEGAN: Step four is make the argument.

And this one -- this one seems obvious. But there's this argument that seems to have taken hold on both the left and the right. And I think it stems from the hopelessness you mentioned earlier. Oh, they're just too far gone. They can't be reasoned with. But where does that lead us?

It leaves us at loggerheads. Deadlocked. And no one wants to be there. So you make the argument because they don't understand -- your opponent doesn't necessarily understand your thinking and the way that you're approaching the problem. And by making the argument -- if you fail to do that, you're definitely not going to change someone's mind. You actually have to articulate the reasoning and the thought process behind your position.

And there's actually a fifth point that I would have included if I had enough time -- should I tell you now?

GLENN: Yeah, go ahead.

STU: We're breaking news here. The fifth point in Megan Phelps' TED talk.

GLENN: Go ahead.

(chuckling)

MEGAN: It's take heart. Changing hearts and minds is incremental work, and it takes patience and persistence. And you're not going to see results necessarily immediately, not right away, but we can't give up. You know, and you might not be the person to persuade somebody else to turn away from a bad position, but every interaction is an opportunity to help turn the tide. So stay the course, trust the process, and take heart.

GLENN: How many people -- how many people were like this to you?

MEGAN: Well, the ones who had the biggest impact -- I mean, a handful who were engaging me continually over the course of a couple of years, considering I had been in the church. I had been raised in this. And I was 24 when I got on Twitter. So I was, again, marinating in this ideology and this way of thinking. So the fact that it only took a couple of years to really affect me and how I saw things, I think that's pretty remarkable.

GLENN: So did your husband -- was there a time when your husband -- is now your husband --

MEGAN: Yeah.

GLENN: Was he falling in love with you at the time? Did that happen later? Did he say, I can't believe I'm saying this to you -- I mean, how did that happen?

MEGAN: Well, it's a -- it's a really strange -- it was a really strange dynamic because obviously I was at the church. And at Westboro, you could only marry somebody who was in the church. So we were having these discussions, and there was nothing -- it was like a Jane Austen novel, like nothing overt. Like we couldn't say how we were feeling to each other because it just wasn't acceptable. And he sensed that.

And -- but he also, again, saw that I was a human being. And he came to believe that I had a good heart.

GLENN: So would this have worked -- would this have worked without love?

MEGAN: Well, I think -- well, so here's the thing. I -- yes, I believe so. And the reason is that the very first interaction was with a friend. I mentioned him in the talk too. Jewlicious. His name is David Abitbol.

And so it was -- I think I was talking with him for a little over a year. And, again, he's asking these questions. And in the course of asking these questions, he was the one who found the first -- the first bit of internal inconsistency in Westboro's doctrines. And when I look back at how I responded to that -- so my husband -- I didn't actually start speaking to him until months after that. But when I think about how I responded to that first bit of internal inconsistency, that was when I first started to challenge, in my own mind, Westboro's doctrines.

GLENN: And you didn't let him know that.

MEGAN: No. For sure. As soon as he had made that point, I was actually terrified to speak to him again. I didn't even let on that I recognized that he was right. I just stopped speaking to him.

GLENN: Wow. What was the point, if you don't mind me asking?

MEGAN: Oh, yeah, no, not at all.

It was a sign that said "death penalty for fags."

GLENN: Oh, my gosh.

MEGAN: Yeah. So, of course -- we used, you know, the verses in Leviticus and also in Romans 1 that talk about how, you know, gays are worthy of death. And he brought up -- so he's Jewish. I was really surprised that he brought up Jesus, saying, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

And I didn't -- I just had never connected that that was talking about the death penalty. And we thought, we're not -- we're not casting stones. We're just preaching words.

And David said, "Yeah, but you're advocating that the government cast stones."

And so that -- when I brought that point to other members of the church, the response was just to double down. They never addressed the passage that -- you know, that contradicted us. They just reiterated the passages that supported us. And so that was the first time that -- and the way that I reconciled it in my own mind was I just stopped holding the sign because I didn't know how to defend it anymore. And I didn't believe in it.

GLENN: Did they tell you to stop talking to these people?

MEGAN: I don't think -- I don't think people quite realized how much -- I mean, they knew I was very active on Twitter, but I don't think they realized how much it was affecting the way that I was thinking. I honestly didn't -- didn't understand it either.

Because in my mind -- I think I was in denial about it because -- you are not supposed to be impacted by other people. You are not supposed to be anything, but preaching to them. You're not supposed to really, you know, care -- I was going to say care about them. It was a very strange dynamic. But I was in denial about it. And I think that definitely helped it seem to others as if it wasn't really having an impact on me also.

PAT: Is anybody in your family speaking with you? Do you have a relationship with anybody anymore in the family?

MEGAN: Not anybody in the church, no. But there has been over the last decade or so, about 20 or so people who have either left or have been kicked out of Westboro. And my brother actually, the morning of my high school graduation -- he's a year and a half older than me. We woke up and went downstairs, and all of his stuff was gone. And so I have -- I didn't get to speak with him for the eight and half years between when he left and when I left. But now we're really good friends. And he's wonderful.

PAT: What was he thrown out for?

MEGAN: No, he left actually.

PAT: Oh, he left on his own.

MEGAN: He left at 19. Yeah, he also had Scriptural objections to some things. And also the extreme -- he objected to the extreme level of control because everybody in the church -- we all lived within two blocks or so of one another and did everything together and were obviously not developing relationships with people outside. But the level of control is -- is really -- really, really extreme.

GLENN: Do they -- do you think this will just die out as the family dies out, or?

MEGAN: Actually, I thought about this. My sister and I would talk about this about how could the church end in a way that just wouldn't destroy everybody on the inside?

There's still about the same level of membership as there has been. Because a few people -- a few new converts have joined. And then, of course, my generation has now -- they're having kids. But there's not many.

GLENN: What kind of people would join -- what kind of people join this? They really believe -- the newcomers that come in --

STU: It's one thing to be raised in it, but to be converted as an adult.

GLENN: Decent people. Yeah.

MEGAN: So honestly, I've speculated about this too. So, for instance, my dad -- my dad joined the church long before the picketing started. He was only 16 at the time. And, you know, his family wasn't -- I mean, his mom had been divorced. I don't think he -- he was attracted to the love and unity and connection I think in my family. In the Phelps family, I think. And I think that's a draw for some people. And it really lends credence to the idea that they're doing what they're doing out of love, out of good intentions.

And, again, some people just, I think are drawn to that defense of the idea of having all the answers and knowing for sure what you believe and how you're supposed to live. Like, it's -- that was such a powerful thing. When I left and realized like, I don't -- I don't have that anymore. I don't have that sense of -- it's a very comforting sense of certainty. And, you know, nuance and questions and uncertainty are a lot more difficult to deal with. I think some people are attracted to that part of the church.

GLENN: Next time they're out protesting, what should people do?

MEGAN: I think engaging at protests is actually not a very effective thing because they're -- on picket lines, they're already in these attack/defend mindsets. I think the internet is a much -- you know, Twitter. There's a lot of them on Twitter now. I think that's a more effective way of engaging. But if you -- if you do see them and if you are moved to go and speak to them, just remember that -- that responding with, you know, yelling and name-calling, all those things, it just reinforces what they already believe. It's adding to, you know, their certainty that they're doing the right thing.

GLENN: It is really -- it's really great to talk to you. Megan Phelps-Roper. You can find her @MeganPhelps. That's her Twitter handle. @MeganPhelps.

Really great to talk to you. And thank you for sharing this. And I think you have an important voice that needs to be heard.

STU: And I will say, Megan, will you confirm this, because we got the fifth point out of you, we are 25 percent better than your TED talk.

MEGAN: Yeah, for sure.

GLENN: Megan, can we pay you an off-handed compliment. Stu wanted to say this, we said it during the break. And it's weird because it's exactly what we're talking about. We don't know each other. We don't talk to each other.

We look at people in the Westboro Baptist Church and think that their kids just must be dumb as a box of rocks. And just, oatmeal! Every answer is, oatmeal! (chuckling) And you're so articulate. I mean, it's amazing just to have that view shattered.

MEGAN: Thank you.

I will say -- I mean, another thing that's not so well-known about the church, education was really important in my family. Most of the people there -- many lawyers, people who work in health care, and IT. And they're very well educated.

PAT: Wow.

GLENN: Wow.

MEGAN: Which is partly I think what makes it so much more difficult for them to see outside of it. This is like a psychological thing where, by -- by having these very strong mostly internally consistent arguments, they -- they think they're so certain that they don't even question the -- they don't even question it.

GLENN: Amazing.

MEGAN: But, yeah, anyway...

GLENN: Thank you so much. @MeganPhelps. Thank you so much, Megan. Appreciate it.

MEGAN: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

GLENN: You bet.

RADIO

What the DESTRUCTION of New York means for the rest of us

New York City is likely to elect either Zohran Mamdani, a communist, or Andrew Cuomo, a failed governor, as mayor. Either way, it could destroy the city. So, how will this affect the rest of America? Former Trump economic advisor Stephen Moore joins Glenn to explain why he believes another mass migration out of New York is coming…

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Stephen Moore is with us now. Stephen, how much time do you have with me today?

STEPHEN: As much as you want, Glenn. Great to hear your voice. Great to be with you.

I disagree with you on something you just said.

GLENN: Okay. All right. Let's start there.

STEPHEN: You know, I do think -- look, New York has lost two and a half million people on net over the last ten years, to other states. Almost two and a half million people.

Which is, what? Four congressional seats right there.

So there's a mass. The big story in America, Glenn. Right now. And people should go on our website. Vote With Your Feet. And you can see, just click on any two states. You can click on New York. And you can click on Texas. And it will show you the -- where the moving vans are going to and from. And also, how much money they're taking with them because we know the income of these people as well.

So New York has lost two and a half million people. And, by the way, half of those people came from New York City. So if -- did they elect a socialist and they raised the taxes, again, New York City already has the highest taxes in the United States in North America. So if they raise them again, on, quote, the rich, they won't be there any longer. And I'll make another prediction to you, Glenn.

Are you in Texas? Where are you now?
(laughter)

GLENN: It's like a shell game.
I never really know. I just moved last week. I left my business in Texas.

Because I am never going to sever myself from Texas. I left my business in Texas. I promised my wife about 400 years ago, that some take we would live by the beach. So we moved to Florida. Business in Texas.

STEPHEN: You moved from no income tax state. To another no income tax state.

GLENN: Yeah. Are you crazy? I'm not doing anything else?

I would have dug a canal from the Atlantic, all the way to Dallas, if they forced me to move to a tax state. Anyway...

STEPHEN: So anyway, I'm in Dallas today.

GLENN: I know.

STEPHEN: Where are you in Florida?

GLENN: I'm not saying that on the air. But I will tell you that we're going to have dinner, Stephen. When you get back into dinner, Stephen, we'll have dinner.

STEPHEN: So, anyway, now I lost my train of concentration.

GLENN: So we were talking about the people that are moving and the tax base.

STEPHEN: Yeah. So basically, that's why I believe -- look, 1 million is probably a long shot.

But I think you're going to see a lot of wealth move out of New York. Now, here's the thing. You probably are aware of this. But about two months ago, the -- Texas has their own stock exchange. So we had the New York Stock Exchange for 150 years. Now you've got the Texas Stock Exchange, which I believe is in Dallas.

GLENN: I know.

STEPHEN: I believe, if they raise these taxes again, you pay 17 percent income tax in New York City.

GLENN: Jeez.

STEPHEN: Who is going to do that?

GLENN: My gosh.

STEPHEN: After 40 percent federal tax. So people will move. And I'll give you one -- one example.

Do you know Ken Griffin? He's the billionaire who created Citadel.

GLENN: Yeah.

STEPHEN: He's a big guy. Free market guy. And he was the single, biggest charitable giving in the city of Chicago. He gave to the Art Institute. He gave to the homeless shelters. He gave to the food kitchens and the museums and so on.

I mean, he was -- he was by far the biggest donor to all of the charities.

Well, finally, they kept raising, raising taxes in Chicago. And as you probably know, he moved out of Chicago. And he moved to Palm Beach.

Florida. And so then the interesting part of this story is, it put a 50 million-dollar hold in the Illinois budget.

GLENN: Oh, my gosh.

STEPHEN: And all the -- there's a funny story in the Chicago business. That all of a sudden, charities like, why isn't he donating to us anymore?

Why isn't he living there anymore?

So my point is, you chase the evil rich out of your city and your state. You pay a high price for that. By the way, he took several thousand, you know, jobs with him. So when you -- when you hear stoke the rich -- you know, the rich are -- as the old saying goes, "The rich aren't rich because they're stupid."

GLENN: Right.

So let me ask you this, Stephen. Because it used to be that New York was -- I mean, was the capital of the whole world.

STEPHEN: Yeah. Yeah. Financial capital.

GLENN: And because of the stock exchange. How real is the loss of the New York Stock Exchange. As something like the Texas stock exchange?

Is that something that really could actually happen?

STEPHEN: Yeah. It could happen. And look, the truth is that the New York Stock Exchange, even today, isn't anything like it was '60s, '70s, '80s, just like I mentioned I'm from Chicago. Remember the movie Trading Places, they're trading. It doesn't really exist anymore. Because that's all done by computers and electronically. So the trading floors aren't the same as they were. So Wall Street is just a shadow of what it once was. But what I'm saying is, today in America, in Dallas, Texas, there are more financial services jobs than there are in New York City.

GLENN: Oh, my gosh.

STEPHEN: That's amazing!

GLENN: Oh, my gosh.

So --

STEPHEN: It's happening.

GLENN: So how long -- how much more, Stephen, how much more can New York take before it's -- it's no longer the financial capital?

How much more -- how many people have to move?

What has to happen, for it to really understand, wow. We made a huge mistake here?

STEPHEN: You would think they would have gotten that message already.

GLENN: No.

STEPHEN: And one of the things that you first did your show, many, many years ago. You were in New York.

So you're familiar with New York. And when was that? In the '90s when were you --

GLENN: In the 2000 -- 2000s. Mid-2000, you know, 2005. 2010.

STEPHEN: Yeah. Because I remember when Rudy -- this is an important point because I know you have a lot of listeners all over the country in New York and New Jersey. In the New York area.

So when Rudy Giuliani was elected mayor, New York was a mess. And you could see every week, because I was working at the Wall Street Journal at the time. Every week, you could see the improvement in the city. He got rid of the crime. He got rid of the graffiti. He got rid of the drug dealers. He got rid of -- he lowered the taxes. It wasn't complicated, Glenn. I mean, this wasn't rocket surgery.

GLENN: I know.

STEPHEN: This was obvious stuff.

And New York was New York again. And it was booming. And what's sad about this election that's happening today, is if Mamdani wins, they will reverse every single thing that Rudy did. And they will be back in the ditch. How stupid would people be to fall for that!

And part of the problem, Glenn, quite frankly, something you and I have talked about for years. Is our education system. You have 24-year-olds are voting, they think socialism works. Where? Show me. Where?

GLENN: Yeah. So what happens if he is elected? I mean, how -- what does it mean to people who have never gone to New York City?

Is -- is the loss of New York City to a Mamdani, is that going to affect everybody else's life?

STEPHEN: That's a good question. you're there in Florida.

Florida has gained. I really want people to go to this website.

Because it's amazing.

So Florida, under a great, great, great governor, Ron DeSantis. And you had a great governor, Rick Scott, before him. Florida, are you ready? Are you sitting down, Glenn? Florida has imported over the ten-year period, one trillion dollars of income from people coming in from other states. $1 trillion. It's the biggest mass migration ever in the history of this country.

GLENN: Unbelievable.

STEPHEN: And, by the way, people are not just living in New York. What you know other states they're leaving?

California.

GLENN: I think New York is moving to Florida, and California is moving to Texas.

STEPHEN: Moving to Texas, exactly.

And so you're just bleeding these blue states. That's why I don't get it.

So the thing that worries me. I was thinking about this, a lot over the past couple of days. If these states vote the wrong way, the only way that New York even survives, fiscally is with another massive federal bailout.

GLENN: Bailout. I know.

STEPHEN: How are you they going to pay their bills?

GLENN: They're not. They're not. And, you know, that's -- this is what I've said for a long time.

You know, the Constitution is not a suicide PAC. And California and New York and Chicago are going to eventually need giant bailouts.

And why should I pay for that know. I didn't live in those places. I didn't live there for a reason.

STEPHEN: Right.

GLENN: Right. That's taxation without representation.

I don't want to bail them out.

It was -- it's their fault, they did this. I've always wanted to live in California.

I never have, because it was insane. I knew that it was not going to work. So why do I have to pay for it?

STEPHEN: Exactly. Bingo. And incidentally, you're right. You can understand why people might leave New York for Florida. You know, in Florida, it's beautiful weather. In Florida, and rains a lot. And probably in New York. But how do you screw up California?

I mean, California is one of the probably most idyllic places in the planet. And people are living. This is the first time in 250 years people have been -- more people are leaving California than going to California. That's never happened before!

STU: That's unbelievable. Unbelievable.

STEPHEN: Yeah.

GLENN: Okay. So can you spend some time with me --

STEPHEN: Can I make one more point about this?

GLENN: Yeah.

STEPHEN: The governor of California is now the lead candidate to run on the Democratic ticket for president: Gavin Newsom. The guy who is -- what's he going to run on? "I'll do for America what I did for California?"

GLENN: Yes.

And so many people will buy into it!

I mean, I don't know what's wrong. It's so frustrating, because you try to apply logic. And you're like, but none of this makes sense! None of it. What are you doing?

I would love to be able to sit down and have a conversation, but none of this makes sense.

RADIO

Dick Cheney's life should be a WARNING for us all

Former Vice President Dick Cheney has passed away at the age of 84. Glenn Beck reviews some of the biggest lessons from Cheney’s life that America should have learned, from the Gulf War and 9/11 to the PATRIOT Act and even gain-of-function research.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: So let me start here with Dick Cheney. You know, there was a time not long ago, where America was not sure of itself.

Like we are now.

The Berlin Wall had fallen. We had gone through the '80s, which was a big boost to our confidence. But we had done so much damage to ourselves in the '60s and the '70s, it took more than one president in eight years. Vietnam still you haunted us. The headlines were all about peace dividends. You remember that?

Berlin wall comes down. Now, we should have peace dividends. Downsizing. Doubt. We didn't know. We were arrogant, and yet doubtful.

The idea of a military, powerful military had been almost embarrassing to say out loud since Vietnam. Reagan had rebuilt us, but it was peace through strength. We never went to war. Thank God, we never went to war. But our perceived strength did all our work for us.

But we didn't know. Because the last time we had tanks rolling anywhere, was Vietnam. And we thought that was a really bad thing.

Well, George H.W. Bush came into office. And he brought with him a man who had five deferments in Vietnam. He had never served in uniform. And he picks that guy. A guy from Wyoming. Not loud. Not flashy. To step into the role of Secretary of Defense. That was pretty controversial.

Wait a minute. What?

Hold it.

The guy didn't look like a warrior. He looked honestly like an accountant that balanced books after the battle. He was quiet, soft-spoken.

But he was firm. He was very clear on what he believed, and he believed perhaps more than -- more deeply than almost anybody else in Washington, that a nation that can't defend itself isn't going to remain free.

And so Reagan had really built the military up.

And Dick Cheney kind of finished that off, with George H.W. Bush.

By restoring the faith in our military.

Faith in America's strength was not the problem. America's strength was the protector of liberty.

I'm old enough to remember the -- the opening night of the Gulf War.

CNN was the only news network at the time.

And on my living room screen. I was living in Baltimore at the time, there was this eerie green grain of night vision footage. Which we really hadn't seen before.

And missile strikes through the darkness. We had never seen war like this before. Not only in night vision, but not live in our living rooms. We had never seen anything like it.

And I remember we all kind of held our breath. And we watched this new kind of war, unfold.

And it was swift, it was surgical. It was divisive.

There was no draft -- or decisive. There was no draft. There was no chaos. There was no quagmire. For the first time in decades, Americans felt pride without apology when it came to our military.

And we still wondered, is it going to be a quagmire?

But it wasn't. It was very clear. The mission was clear. We liberated Kuwait. That was the mission, and then we left. There was, you know, no oil fields. No spoils. No empire building. Just a message to the world, we could be proud of! This is what moral strength looks like. Free a nation, and go home.

Now, when George W. Bush ran for president, I don't think anybody was really comfortable handing the nuclear codes over to this guy who had been the governor of Texas and really kind of, yeah, let me tell you. Yeah. Right.

I mean, I wasn't comfortable. He was the guy we barely knew. He seemed like somebody who was more comfortable in the stands of a baseball stadium, than even, you know, in the main offices of the baseball stadium, that he owned. You know.

And everything changed in 2000, in the election, when he chose Dick Cheney as his running mate. The reaction was instant.

And I think it was the sound of America kind of exhaling a bit. He announced Dick Cheney and Colin Powell. They were the ones who brought us the Gulf War. It was quick, decisive, and over.

And America said, okay. Okay. Okay.

He's got Dick Cheney behind him.

All right. The adults are back. Then came that blue September morning.

And the skies were clear, and the markets were opened.

And in an instant, absolutely everything changed. The world stopped! The New York skyline was filled with smoke, and fear filled the air, all over the world. Not just here in America. No one knew what was going on. And our president was reading stories to children in Florida, and Dick Cheney became the acting president for a while, until we could get the president to safety!

He was the one that was rushed down to the emergency bunker in the White House. He took over for a while!

He was steady. Emotionless. And firm!

He didn't tremble. He didn't panic. And in those hours, those first few hours, America needed that!

But fear, once it's tasted, it's -- it's hard to let go. And so we started a war. And it just stretched on and on and on.

And the mission became blurry. Freedom became a slogan, instead of a strategy. And freedom started to take a different meaning here in America. We passed the Patriot Act. We built the Department of Homeland Security. None of those things had anything to do with freedom. We created the FISA court. And airport lines that never seemed to end. And for a while, we told ourselves, all of this is worth it, it's the price we have to pay in a dangerous, dangerous world.

But when you give more to one God, the other gods will demand payment later. And something in those days, a seed that was far more darker was planted. The anthrax attacks, most people don't even remember them now. They rattled the nation.

Cheney, who was always the realist and the adult in the room. Always the sentinel told the nation's stop scientists, we can't wait for the next attack. We have to study it. We have to anticipate it.

And so it was Dick Cheney that urged Dr. Anthony Fauci. To push research further, faster. Into what we now call gain of function. And I'm sure it was born out of good intent to protect us. As history often teaches us, good intent can be dangerous as a companion to unchecked power. Or as my grandmother always used to say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

And so bee beneath all of that calculation and control, there was a the different side to Dick Cheney. He was quiet. When his daughter Mary came out as gay, he didn't blink. Long before Clinton evolved, before Obama changed his mind, Cheney, the hawk, Darth Vader, the architect of war, said plainly, "My daughter deserves the same rights as everybody else." It was personal, it was brave, it was human, and as a politician, he stood almost entirely alone. Nobody gives him credit for that.

And he -- he belonged to a different time. A Cold War man in a post modern world. A deep believer in the chain of command. In America's dominance. In doing what has to be done, even if the world didn't approve!

He died last night. He had five heart attacks in his life. I think it was 2012, he had a heart transplant, doctor said it would give him another decade of life.

13 years later. Dick Cheney's life offers both a chance to give medals and lessons. The virtue of strength and the peril of excess. And he should have learned from the first Gulf War. He was the iron for many years in America's spine. After decades of doubt. But he was also a reminder that iron rusts, if it is left unexamined.

We needed his resolve when the towers fell. And raps, in the years that follow, we needed more in his -- more of his restraint from 1991, in the years that followed that. But we didn't get that.

So he leaves behind a really complicated legacy. Which I think is appropriate today, as I try to talk to you today about, what does it mean to be a conservative?

On all fronts. What does it mean?

Dick Cheney was a conservative for a man of his time. But he lost one of the main principles, and that is conservatives believe in the rule of law and the Constitution. He's a patriot, yes. But he's also a warning to us. He helped America find its courage. But he also taught us how easily courage can drift into control.

And he left us some lessons that we should learn. The Patriot Act. That has given our government tools to spy on its own citizens. On Capitol Hill, nobody is talking about this. But this is the biggest scandal probably in American intelligence and American corruption of all time.

The Patriot Act made all of it possible. The government -- government-wide scandal of a president spying on its opponent party, including senators and congressmen. And donors. And average citizens.

That's still being revealed. Nobody is talking about it. But that came from the patriot ability. That came him the power to do it. The FISA court as we know in a completely other scandal. The FISA courts were lied to. The FBI physically changed documents to falsify testimony to secure wire taps that they said they needed, that we now know were unwarranted and illegal. What else should we learn today? We paid a heavy price for never-ending wars in blood, in treasure, and faith.

We failed to learn the right lessons from the Gulf War. Define the mission narrowly. Execute it efficiently. And then get the hell out of there, and come home!

Enhanced interrogation. That's Dick Cheney. We called torture "enhanced interrogation." And we still refuse as a people, to have this debate. We either torture or we do not. And it's the people that should make the decision.

No one in the world looks to a nation who says one thing, but then farms out the torture to another dictator or authoritarian someplace else.

They don't look at that and go, you know what. There's a great nation.

We should also learn the lesson.

I mean, think of what we just learned. Enhanced interrogation. It's torture.

You believe so change the name. You can't change the meaning of words. Okay?

Enhanced interrogation is still torture. No matter what you do to a man surgically.

He's still a man. You can't just say, oh, no. That's a woman. Changing the words, does not change reality.

And the heaviest lesson, we have not learned a bit from is gain of function. It may be illegal, but it is still happening. Because there are those in the government, on both sides of the aisle, that think it's important.

It is not.

It has killed hills. And it's changed our world.

In that crisis, we saw blue states give new dictatorial powers that still haven't been corrected.

So Dick Cheney, believe it or not, I actually liked Dick Cheney, but I've changed. The times have changed, and I would like to salute his service to a nation for what he did, and he actually believed he was doing the right thing. And he did do the right thing, in his day. But things have changed. And his passing marks not just the end of his life, but close of that age.

An age of secrecy and steel and certainty. Honor Dick Cheney's service today. But can we learn from the mistakes? And can we remember one thing?

The strength of a nation is not measured just by its power to strike. But its wisdom to stop!

RADIO

Glenn Beck EXPOSES NYC’s socialist nightmare in the making

New York City is on the brink and Glenn Beck says the choice between Andrew Cuomo and Zohran Mamdani isn’t about who’s good for the city, but who’s less destructive. Glenn and Stu Burguiere break down why Cuomo’s notorious corruption may actually look mild compared to Mamdani’s open socialism. From “communist grocery stores” to Obama’s fading influence, Beck exposes how the Democratic Party is spiraling into radicalism and why every Republican should be paying attention.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

STU: There was one poll that kind of showed up and was somewhat positive for Cuomo, if you think Cuomo being mayor of a major city is a positive in any way.

GLENN: It doesn't matter.

STU: Honestly, I don't even know. I get why people think that Mamdani will be worse. He probably will be worse.

But I don't think it's a sure thing. I honestly, don't even think it's a sure thing. These people forget how bad Andrew Comey is.

I think there's this coping mechanism that's going on.

GLENN: Does he want communist grocery stores?

STU: He probably doesn't want -- at least, outwardly saying he wants communist grocery stores. I guess if that's your line as to how --

GLENN: Does he believe -- well, it's not my line.

Does he believe that the 34,000 cops or less.

That's the lowest it's ever been.

STU: Uh-huh.

GLENN: 34,000 cops or less. Because he says, it's really not about a number.

Is it -- does Cuomo believe in fewer cops on the street?

STU: It doesn't matter. He's terrible on that issue. And has been terrible on that issue the entire time.

It's possible. It's possible. And this is the one thing you get from Cuomo.

This is the upside case if you're in New York, and you really want Cuomo to win.

He's so incredibly corrupt. Some of his corruption will align with good policy. That is the only thing you get out of Andrew Cuomo. He is no better than Mamdani on most of these issues. But, for example, will have a guy who is in some form of corruption, will be helping him out, that will also help out the business sector. Right?

There's things like that, that align with -- with something that you might say is helpful to New York City.

GLENN: But see, this is -- this is why Mamdani is winning. Mamdani is -- is winning right now, I believe because it's not about the Islamic thing, it's not about the -- you know, socialist thing.

That's probably half of his support.

Maybe -- maybe three-quarters. But that's not what pushes him over the top.

What pushes him over the top is the -- the other Democrat.

They're not going to vote for a Republican.

The other Democrat is just so horrible, and -- and so traditional corrupt, that they're tired of that. They're tired of the corrupt democratic politician.

They're tired of it. They're not tired of Democrats. They're tired of the cronyism and all of that.

And so here comes a fresh face, nobody really knows who he is.

I mean, it is the Obama thing. Where, you know, hope and change.

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: You know, they -- they said that Obama -- do we have that clip?

They were saying that -- that Obama is very much, you know, the new -- or, the old school Mamdani.

No!

No. He's really not. And Obama pledged his support from Mamdani. And I would think that Mamdani would be like, no. Thank you. No, thank you.

Not because they don't agree on things, but because I think that Mamdani's voters will look at Obama and say, "You had your turn, buddy. You believe in the same things, the communist grocery stores. You know, the no cops thing. You know, hate Israel. You believe all of those things. You believe -- but you didn't do any of them."

Now, Obama looks at it and says, "Yes, but I moved the ball forward. That's as far as I could go. Progress. You know, progressive. That's as far as I could go."

But he's not accepted by the real, you know, zealots.

The real changers of the universe.
He was too progressive.

Where now, it's time for the real -- the hard-liners to come in. And that's what I think Mamdani is.

And I think Barack Obama is viewed by the Mamdani supporters, the real Mamdani supporters, as a real sellout. Would you agree with that, or not?

STU: Some. I think that's true.

I think generally speaking, Democrats are not like that.

I think generally speaking, tells me like Obama.

GLENN: I'm not talking about Democrats.

STU: You're talking about Mamdani-type supporters. Like real Mamdani-ites. Yeah, those people do see.

They saw -- they saw the result of 2016 as a part result of not going far enough.

They were -- they complained about Joe Biden for not going far enough.

Of course, that's what they want. And that -- that's the big thing, Glenn. Really? The difference when you look at this election in New York, is if Mamdani gets elected. You go one of two ways. We've seen this happen before.

He could be the communist we know he is in his heart. Right?

He could do all of these things that he's promising. And really descry up the city to no end.

Probably the best-case scenario for him, is he gets in there. He gets thwarted at times, bit corrupt Democrats that are around him, that can stop him.

He does is not have unlimited power as the mayor.

At least not yet.

We saw this with Bill de Blasio. Bill de Blasio was just as dedicated and communist as Zohran Mamdani is.

And his rein as mayor was really bad. It did not destroy the country. It was really bad for the city. It was a really bad time for the city. And they paid a lot for the things that he did. And this is a guy who went on vacation to the Soviet Union.

Right? This is not a guy who was not deck dedicated to the cause.

GLENN: Right.

STU: Mamdani, my suspicion on Mamdani is he will go even farther than de Blasio did. Because he's, you know, young and aspirational. Right?

I think de Blasio had been knocked down for a while, and felt he had to moderate some of those views to get elected. It's not really what the case is here, with Mamdani. I would be very terrified of him, if I were in the city. I would probably begrudgingly be hoping that Cuomo won this.

Because you would at least have an idea of what you're getting.

GLENN: Yeah. The devil you know.

STU: He's going to be terrible. He will be incredibly corrupt.

He will probably commit two to three crimes a day.

That is probably -- possibly much better than what you'll get out of Mamdani. You know, and be whatever reason, this city has moved now to a place where they won't even consider a guy who will do a good job. That's not even part of their consideration.

They're not even looking at Curtis Sliwa, who would actually be fine as mayor. And do a good job for the city.

GLENN: No. I find it interesting.

How do you think Mamdani is going to internally take the suggestion that, hey. I would love to be part of your counsel. I would love to be a sounding board for you.

I mean, he might like it, outwardly. But I don't think that went with his real supporters and his real team that, you know, want the communist grocery stores and everything.

I can't imagine that went over well.

STU: Yeah. I think --

GLENN: Like, making fun of it kind of bad, internally, I think.

STU: Yeah. Behind the closed doors. Yes. I think there's two ways to look at it. And I think probably people in his inner orbit looked at it both ways. Which is, one, you believe this guy.

You know, he wasn't early with us.

GLENN: I know. He let us down as president. He didn't go far enough. This is pathetic. And now he's trying to get into our good graces.

I do think a smarter analysis of this however, on their side is if we can get them to embrace us. It moves us to the mainstream of the party.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

STU: You know, it's funny. I think both Mamdani and the entire Republican Party are going to be rooting for Mamdani to be the face of the democratic party.

That's going to happen real soon. The Democrats don't want that. The Chuck Schumer of the world don't want that. But every Republican should be doing everything they can, to make sure that people understand the future of the democratic party is Mamdani.

GLENN: It's interesting to me that you would say, because I think you're right. That he would say, hey. This would mainstream us a little bit more. Make us look a little bit more acceptable for the party.

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: Although, I think -- I think Barack Obama's legacy is not as solid as it would have been. I think he's going to age like Bill Clinton aged. Where Bill Clinton was popular for a while. And then as we got farther and farther away from it, we're like, that guy was corrupt and really bad. He's really not good. I can't believe people still like him.

And not really in with the Democratic Party. And I think -- I think Barack Obama, because the Democratic Party is becoming so radical, I think he's going to even be worse. Because he's going to look like a total sellout. A guy who at least his wife believed it. And he said that he believed it. But he never really got down and did it.

And they will not accept the, hey, he moved the ball as far as he could. They won't accept that.

And I think they will look at him, at least internally, just like we would look at George W. Bush coming in, you know -- you know, in late 2024.

And saying, you know what, I would love to be an adviser for Donald Trump.

You would be like, I don't think.

I don't think.

And there might be some that would argue. Hey. Bring him in.

Just bring him in. Let's go ahead. It will help bring the rest of the party in.

And it will widen the tent. But don't listen to him.

For the love of Pete. Don't listen to him.

And the hard-core Trump supporters, I would have -- would be like, don't. Don't. Don't.

Don't bring him in.

And I just have that feeling, that that's what's coming.

But we'll see.

RADIO

China, ICE, and the shutdown: Everything Trump's "60 Minutes" interview revealed

President Trump gave a master class on negotiation in his recent “60 Minutes” interview with Norah O’Donnell. Glenn and Stu review Trump’s best comments on China and Taiwan, ICE raids, and the government shutdown.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

VOICE: I know you have said that Xi Jinping wouldn't dare move militarily on Taiwan while you're in office. But what if he does?
Would you order US forces to defend Taiwan?

DONALD: You'll find out if it happens. And he understands the answer to that.
VOICE: Why not say it?
DONALD: This never even came up yesterday.

STU: Why not say it? I don't know. Tough question!

DONALD: He never brought it up, because he understands it, and he understands it very well.

VOICE: Do you mind when I ask, he understands, why not communicate that publicly to the rest of us? What does he understand?

DONALD: I can't give away my secrets. I don't want to be one of these guys that tells you exactly what is going to happen, if something happens. The other side knows, but I'm not somebody that tells you everything, because you're asking me a question. But they understand what's going to happen, and he has openly said it, and his people have openly said it. He said, we will never do anything, while President Trump is president. Because they know the consequences.

GLENN: And they do.

Now, what's her name? Norah McDonald?

Or that Norah O'Donnell. I can't remember.

STU: It's Norah O'Donnell.

GLENN: One is a comedian, and one claims to be a journalist. I don't know remember the difference. But, you know, here she is. Why won't you just say it? I don't know!

Strategery!

I mean, why wouldn't you just say it?

Presidents never say that. They never say that. Can you imagine?

What a stupid question that is.

And if you think -- go ahead.

STU: I was going to say, you know, I think Trump sometimes does say stuff like that. Right? Like he does -- for example, with North Korea. Right?

He was like, hey. We're going to blow you up. And the fires of hell are going to rain down upon you.

GLENN: Because North Korea is not China.

STU: Right. He's making decisions based on strategy with different countries. And there's different decisions to make with each nation.

GLENN: Correct.

STU: And when you look at something like this.

What he's trying to, I think communicate is he has communicated to China that they will be involved.

But he does not want to escalate it publicly.

And honestly, all of that being said, I don't know what his actual answer is. My suspicion is, we won't be involved if that happens. Honestly, like I know we promised it. But my suspicion is, if China actually goes in there, there's a good chance, we are -- we come up a reason to not be involved in it.

GLENN: We can't. We can't.

We can't be involved in that.

We will be involved in covert ways.

My guess is, we blow up all those chip factories. That's my guess. And my guess is, we have given the ability to Taiwan to do that. Long ago. I don't know.

But that's what -- that's what I would do. Because we don't have -- we cannot -- we cannot support a supply line, that far away. We just tonight. We're not capable of it.

So we don't have the supply lines. We couldn't get things there, fast enough. And they're going to overwhelm with drones. That's what -- this is going to be the fastest war ever. If they go into Taiwan. It will be over, by the time we ever get a ship or an airplane there. It will be over. They will just overwhelm the island with swarms of drones, period. So here's what the president is actually doing.

He announced a deal on economic and trade relations with China.

So here's what he -- here's the Chinese actions. You ready?

Suspend new rare earth export controls. Issue general license for exports of rare earth. Listen to what he got: Take significant measures to end the flow of fentanyl to the US. Suspend all retaliatory tariffs since March 4th. Suspend all retaliatory nontariff measures since March 4th. Purchase at least 12 million metric tons of US soybeans, and we lowered our tariffs by ten points and extended the expiration of Section 301 tariff exclusions until November 2026. Do you see what we've got? See what we gave up?

Let me just say that again. Do you see what we got and what they gave up?

The president -- it's genius how he got us here. He didn't just engage with China directly. He embarked on a massive, massive campaign, securing the rare earth minerals in all of their allies. Multiple countries.

He built an -- an alternate system that cuts China out, entirely.

Then went after Venezuela, Russia, and Iran. All the three of their major allies.

This was the equivalent of the American president, putting his foot down on the neck of China and saying, you want up?

You want up?

And China blinked because at this point, they had no choice.

China is not used to being handled like this. And he just handled them.

This is a good win for America!

So when the president is has done negotiation. Why would he go on 60 Minutes?

And insult them even more.

Why would he go and say, what you know we'll do?

We'll vaporize Beijing. And I have on good authority, that's exactly what the president said. You know, you want to do that, and I'll make Beijing disappear.

And Xi laughed at first. And what? What?

The president didn't laugh and blink. And Xi left going, he might just do it!

That's how you negotiate. That's how get all of the rare earth minerals. That's how you get this giant concession with from China. The guy -- I have to tell you, I mean, we've known this forever. How long has everyone on the planet, you know, now, of course, the left won't say it. You know, the Democrats won't say it. But everybody has always said, I wish we just had a good negotiator on our side. Wouldn't it be nice if we had somebody that looked at the country like a business. And could just run it like a business. And knew how to negotiate?

We have the best negotiator, I think we've ever had.

I can't think of anybody who is better than that.

Here's what he said, yesterday on 60 Minutes on the ICE raids. Cut ten.

VOICE: More recently, Americans have been watching videos of ICE tackling a young mother, tear gas being used in a Chicago residential neighborhood. And the smashing of car windows. Have some of these raise gone too far?

DONALD: No. I don't think they've gone far enough. Because we've been held back by the judges, by the liberal judges, that were put in by Biden and by Obama.

VOICE: You're okay with those tactics?

DONALD: Yeah, because you have to get those people out. You have to look at the people. Many of them are murderers. Many of them are people that were thrown out of their countries because they were criminal.

GLENN: What do you think of that, Stu?

STU: Again, he's not going to back down from that policy, not a surprise.

GLENN: Uh-uh.

STU: Criminals, you know -- it is such a popular issue to get rid of people who are violent criminals in this country.

That he's going to lock into that, no matter what the tactics look like. As long as they don't look cruel to people who are innocent.

GLENN: Yes.

STU: Right? That's the type of stuff he would get beat up.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

STU: These are people here illegally.

And it's not -- like, you know. He's beating a mom to -- these people are beating moms to death in the streets. Of course, it's going to be something different.

What we're seeing is, what? They're getting arrested on their way to work?

I don't think that's going to be controversial at all to the American people.

GLENN: Seventy percent of the American people agree with the ICE raids.

Seventy percent. No matter what the mainstream media makes it look. That's the latest poll. Have you read another poll? Stu, you're looking at me --

STU: I have seen more negative polling on the issue, generally.

It is -- I think --

GLENN: I just saw one yesterday or today, 70 percent.

STU: I'll have to --

GLENN: Is it in the show prep today?

STU: I did see that poll somewhere.

GLENN: Yeah.

STU: I wouldn't say -- his border policy is among his most popular policy. There have been some more negative reactions. Not on the right. But on the left. And the -- and the -- and independent voters, who are concerned about these tactics generally.

Now, of course, what they've received about this is basically, this is the gestapo. So you would understand, that their analysis of what they're hearing in the media, is that it's a negative.

I think though, when you look at these individual cases. People wind up realizing, okay. That's not what's actually going on.

You know, I do think that generally speaking, this is a positive issue from him.

Certainly, it's one of the issues that he cares about the most. And he's not going to back off of it. I think there's this idea that the media can try to corner him. And he will try to back down. When does this occur?

This is not -- the only time Trump has ever really backed down on anything is when, occasionally you'll get a situation where his base says no. We can remember cases of this, with the Second Amendment. He said something to the effect of, well, we'll go in there. We'll take the guns first, and then we'll have a trial. His base said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's not the way it should work.

And he backed off of that. That does sort of happen occasionally. And you'll see occasionally, when it comes to economic consequences.

This is the -- you could argue, that, you know, he backs off on some of those stuff, when he sees the market crash or some of that sort. Really, with stuff like this. There's no sign of him backing down. He believes the policy is correct.

He believes these people should leave. And I think, at this point, most people who are border hawks, if they have any complaint about what's going on at the border, it's more than at that it's not enough. It's not been widespread enough.

It has been a situation where it's been focused on. You know, we have a lot of attention on the Maryland father who went to El Salvador.

When I think the issue is larger than a few of these cases. So that is probably the only complaint you would have from people who agree with him.

GLENN: One minute, ten seconds, and we're back to the show. Sometimes, sleep feels like a puzzle, you just can't solve, no matter how hard you try. You lay there, replaying the day. Your mind on a never-ending loop. And all of a sudden, morning is here. Comes too fast. Z Factor is a sleep supplement, designed to help you turn off that noise. Not with harsh sedation, but with a gentle, purposeful push toward real rest. It was created by the same team behind Relief Factor. And people understand how the body and the brain need different kinds of support. And Z Factor helps you quiet the rumbling thoughts so you fall asleep more easily, stay asleep more often, and awake feeling less fragile and more like yourself again.

Imagine going to bed without chasing sleep. Waking without that heavy fog, and having your day run, you know, on just fumes. This is about rest, that resets you, night after night. So tomorrow, is not a compromise. Because you just couldn't sleep last night. Z Factor, rest like you mean it.

First-time Z Factor buyers are going to enjoy 46 percent savings. 19.95 for a 30-day supply. Visit ReliefFactor.com. Or call 800-4-Relief.
(music)
Ten seconds, back to the show.

So let me take on now what happened with the shutdown. Here's cut 11. Trump on 60 Minutes last night.

VOICE: And the shutdown.

DONALD: Well, what we're doing is we keep voting. The Republicans are voting almost unanimously to end it. And the Democrats keep voting against any -- you know, they've never had this.

This has happened like 18 times before. The Democrats always voted for an extension.

Always saying, give us an extension. We'll work it out. They've lost their way. They've become crazed lunatics. And all they have to do, nor a,is say, let's vote!

VOICE: Senate Democrats say, they will vote to reopen the government if Republicans agree to extend subsidies for over 20 million Americans who use Obamacare for their health insurance.

DONALD: Obamacare is terrible.

It's bad health care at far too high a price.

We should fix that! We should fix it. And we can fix it with the Democrats. All they have to do is let the country open, and we will fix it. We have to let the country open, and I will sit down with the Democrats, and we'll fix it. But they have to let the country -- and you know what they have to do? All they have to do is raise five hands. We don't need all of them.

GLENN: Notice, I mean, he is pissed about this.

He wants to fix this.

He wants -- I mean, he does not like Obamacare. But he also is probably -- leans more. See if you agree with this, Stu.

Leans more towards the Democrat kind of fixing of health care than where I would lean. I would lean, shut it all off. Shut it all off. Get all of the government regulation out of insurance and everything else.

Let all of this stuff just be a free market again. And I think you would fix a lot of this.

I don't think that's Donald Trump's point of view. Do you?

STU: No. I don't think so.

Again, we talked about how the border say real passion issue for him. I don't think the health care thing is.

I just don't think that's central to his -- you know, his belief structure long-term.

You saw what happened. He tried to -- he did try, I think, at the beginning to get rid of Obamacare. I think there was a legitimate effort made. It did not work.

DONALD: Yeah. I don't think the Republicans did.

STU: Certainly, many did. Many did. Obviously, it failed. John McCain, famously.

GLENN: Yeah. Right.

STU: Although, that's a little bit blown out of proportion, as the moment where it failed. If it had actually failed before that, regardless, it was something that he promised voters that he would try to do. It didn't work. And I think he's moved on from those sorts of real solutions, that I wouldn't favor. That you would favor.

GLENN: Right. Let me play one more. Cut 12, please.

VOICE: Government shutdowns in the past. And you did it by -- members of Congress, into the White House.

DONALD: I'm not going to do it by extortion. I'm not going to do it by being extorted by the Democrats who have lost their way. There's something wrong with these people.

VOICE: So then what happens on November 5th, when the troops --

DONALD: Schumer is a basket case, and he has nothing to lose. He's become -- I just like Japan. He's become a kamikaze pilot.

VOICE: Sounds like it's not going to get solved the shutdown.

DONALD: It's going to get solved. Oh, it will get solved.

VOICE: How?

DONALD: We'll get it solved. Eventually, they will have to vote.

GLENN: How?

Because I'm on the completely reasonable side, and you seem completely unreasonable.

How? How is this ever going to stop?

Because you won't give the Democrats what they want.

She is so -- she's so mainstream old-fashioned media. Just sickening.

Glenn's Show Prep

Glenn Talks With Megan Phelps-Roper, Former Westboro Baptist Church Member

What the DESTRUCTION of New York means for the rest of us

Transcript

Dick Cheney's life should be a WARNING for us all

Transcript

Glenn Beck EXPOSES NYC’s socialist nightmare in the making

Transcript

China, ICE, and the shutdown: Everything Trump's "60 Minutes" interview revealed

Transcript