GLENN

Glenn Talks With Megan Phelps-Roper, Former Westboro Baptist Church Member

Megan Phelps-Roper joined Glenn on radio this week for an enlightening discussion about her conversion from Westboro Baptist Church member to someone focused on understanding and inclusion. Like Glenn, Phelps-Roper is a hopeful advocate for bringing people together through honest, civil conversations --- and she's laid out a four-step plan to do just that.

RELATED: 4 Steps to Break Down Walls From a Former Westboro Baptist Church Member

Enjoy the complimentary clip or read the transcript for details.

Welcome to the program, Megan, how are you?

MEGAN: I'm wonderful. How are you?

GLENN: I'm good. It's really an honor to talk to you. We're big fans of what you said in your TED talk, especially from where you started, you know, in a church that is more than a little tough.

MEGAN: Yes. Absolutely.

I grew up at the Westboro Baptist Church. And my family -- the church is almost entirely my family. So around 80 percent -- there's only 80 or so people in the church. And about 80 percent are people -- my grandfather is the one who founded the church. And my mother was the de facto spokesperson for a long time. So, yeah, I grew up on the picket line.

PAT: Yeah, you actually held those hate-filled signs at funerals and other places, right?

GLENN: When you were a kid.

MEGAN: Yes. Absolutely.

PAT: Yeah.

MEGAN: It started out as a protest at a local park, and it sort of really expanded from there. As soon as, you know -- my grandfather was very aggressive, kind of hostile personality. So when people started to come out to counterprotest, everybody who was against us became a target. And eventually -- what started out as it being a protest against gay people, became, you know, we were protesting against other Christians and Jews. It expanded rapidly, until literally everyone outside of our church became a target. And so it was basically a -- you know, I was marinating in this idealogy of everybody is against us. We are against everybody because they're all against the Scriptures. You know, memorizing chapter and verse why they're wrong and why they're headed for hell. And it's our duty to go out and warn them.

STU: I'm fascinated, Megan, because I think to my childhood, and I remember fun picnics and fun trips to amusement parks and things like that. Do you have those types of memories, or is it just -- is there a competition between that and you carrying some awful sign around during a protest?

MEGAN: No. I absolutely have those memories. My -- a lot of people have a hard time understanding that they -- other than these protests and that worldview, they're -- we were a very normal -- obviously there's a lot of kids in our family. There's 11 kids in my family. And -- but we played video games and read books. And we went to public school. And, yeah, we went to amusement parks. We did all of those things, but we also -- that was all sort of organized around this nationwide picketing campaign.

So I have -- I absolutely have both, but that -- that loving family -- the nature of that is part of what makes it so, so, so hard to leave or to even consider leaving. The idea of giving it all up.

GLENN: So I just had a guy in who we're going to interview on a program that I'm working on. He was a member of the Hitler Youth. Now, he's in his 80s now. But he came of age in the Hitler Youth, until I think World War II ended, when he was 20. And he still had -- he sees the world very differently. He thinks that Churchill is a war -- should be held for war crimes. A war criminal.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: And he doesn't agree with Hitler. But he said, I never saw -- we never saw any of that. At least he said, I didn't. I was in the front row of the 36 Olympics. You know, I -- I saw all the good stuff. And the bad stuff that was thrown up, you just dismissed it because you thought it was somebody that was trying to tear us down. Is that kind of the way your childhood was in a way?

MEGAN: Well, I mean, I know -- I knew at the time -- so, for instance, the funeral picketing, I knew at the time that it was hurtful. But the way that it was framed in our church was, you know, these people don't understand that they're headed for hell, for eternal destruction. And it's a loving thing to go and warn them.

And so I saw it as a necessary evil, like we had to go do this because this was the truth and the only thing that mattered, more than anything else was the truth. And it didn't matter how we said it, where we said, or in what context, it was always a good thing. And -- and it was a point of pride for us not to consider people's feelings.

GLENN: And the people -- and the people that were coming against you, because they were screaming back in your face, it only reinforced that these are bad people.

MEGAN: Absolutely. Especially because -- I mean, there's all these passages. So, for instance, Jesus talks about blessed are ye when men shall hate you and revile you and persecute you, for my name sake. So for us, like we wanted that. It was -- we expected it. It was confirmation that we were doing the Lord's work.

STU: Wow.

GLENN: Now, take us to how someone finally broke through.

MEGAN: So Twitter -- Twitter was -- and I didn't realize it at first. I didn't realize that it was happening exactly. But Twitter was an empathy machine for me.

I really hate how it's gotten such a bad rap because that platform has done more to teach me good communication and how to engage with people than almost anything else in my life.

So on Twitter, people would -- would come at me with the same kind of, you know, hateful rhetoric and loud, you know, accusations and just very bitter. And, again, I expected it.

And I would respond, you know, in kind. And -- but then some people -- and I don't know exactly why or what motivated them. I think they -- they saw -- they say that they saw something in me that maybe I would listen or something. But in any case, they stopped yelling and stopped, you know, insulting me and started to ask questions. And they were like -- they seemed like they were actually listening to me.

GLENN: They were honest questions. They were honest questions.

PAT: Yes.

GLENN: They weren't questions of setup.

MEGAN: Right. Exactly.

And it made me feel -- and because, again, I thought I was doing a good thing. I thought that those words that we were preaching, I thought that was the absolute, unquestionable truth. So I wanted to share it with them. That's why I was on social media.

And so I would, you know, answer their questions and sort of -- we had these back-and-forths. But then because of Twitter, I'm also seeing the photos they post of their children and their friends. And it just became this -- this way for me to see people as human beings. And it was because of the way -- because of the fact that they stopped -- the way they engaged me.

STU: That's incredible, that that came from Twitter too. Someone tweeted the other day, Instagram, my life is a party. Snapchat, my life is a quirky TV show. Facebook, my life turned out great. Twitter, we're all going to die. When I go on Twitter, man, I just get so depressed. But it's amazing you were able to take that out of this.

MEGAN: Yeah. I know. But there's a couple of things about Twitter that were really helpful to me. So like, for instance, the character limit, it first made me give up insults. Because at Westboro, we would include these elaborate insults when we responded to questions that people sent us by email. But on Twitter, there just wasn't space for it.

And also, Twitter was just this immediate feedback loop. If I did insult somebody, I could watch the conversation just derail in realtime. I could see that I wasn't getting my point across because I was too busy indulging that vengeful little voice in my head that wanted to call people names. I mean, we all have this feedback loop.

GLENN: Megan, I will tell you, I've been doing these kinds of experiments myself over the last couple of years, where I've gotten in -- because I just stopped engaging for a while. About years ago, I decided, you know what, I'm just going to answer everybody and assume the best. And just answer the -- the worst with something kind and try to be humble and kind and nice to everybody. Really hard to do.

And it's amazing the results. It's truly remarkable. It doesn't cure everybody by any stretch. But it's remarkable.

And I've talked about it on the air. And so many people say, it's not going to make a difference. You can't engage with them. They're all crazy. They're all whatever. What would you say to that?

MEGAN: Man, I just disagree so -- so much with the idea of hopelessness when it comes to talking to people.

I had -- I had grown up, you know, being -- basically cultivating this mindset of us versus them, being wary -- like specifically being wary of people's kindness. And even though I consciously was aware and trying not to be persuaded by kindness, it was still a powerful thing.

It's really interesting because over the past few years, I've been thinking about this a lot obviously. Because it's only been four years since I left. So it's kind of been just this huge -- you know, huge event in my life. And what you're describing there, about, you know, assuming the best and, you know, changing the way you respond. So if somebody comes at you angry and you respond in kindness and angry, that's called like, non-complimentary behavior. And we as human beings are wired to respond in kind.

But like you said, it's incredibly difficult to do. But we can cultivate a more useful mindset. Like one thing you said -- well, my mom used to tell me, to make sure my behavior was appropriate, I should add the word "judge" on to the end of my sentence, as in, "Here's why I did it, Judge." And I still use that trick, except now I add the word "friend." If someone attacks me and I start to get riled up, I try to pause for a beat and add friend, as if I'm disagreeing with someone I love. And I don't do it to be a goody two-shoes. I do it because it works. It's just so much more effective than anger or insults or hostility.

GLENN: All right. I want to get to -- you say there are four steps. And I want to get to those here in a second. Let me just ask you one more question, and then I have to take a quick break.

Do you -- are you well aware of how appropriately timed your discovery and your story is for the rest of the world?

MEGAN: I -- I just -- I hope that -- I hope that I can be a voice or that the story can be something that will help other people see the value in engaging. Because honestly, my experience has -- has given me so much hope. I never thought I would leave. And at first, when I first left, I thought that my family, there was no hope for most of my family. I don't believe that anymore. And I'm still reaching out to them. I'm still trying to convince them to see things other ways. And if there's hope for me, if I changed, I think that there's a lot of hope.

You know, I know that the political climate is so polarized right now, but I can't help but feel so hopeful.

GLENN: Megan Phelps-Roper. She'll continue with us here in just a second. You need to hear what her solution is. It's really a four-step process. And it's really pretty easy. Left the Westboro Baptist Church because of kindness. You want to hear her whole story. Watch the TED video because it's quite amazing.

[break]

Megan Phelps-Roper is a former member of the Westboro Baptist Church, where people were kind to her and started to talk to her. And she says, this really works. And, you know, you could be in the cult of a political part. And I think this works. I think we need this across all lines in the world right now.

Megan, you did a TED talk. You said there are four tips on how to talk to people who you disagree with.

MEGAN: Yes. Exactly.

You want me to tell them to you?

GLENN: Yeah. Sure.

MEGAN: So the first one is -- I think it's really important -- don't assume bad intent. It's so easy to look at -- I mean, Westboro is such an easy example. They've got these neon signs. It was so clearly obvious to everyone that we were hateful and evil and awful people.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

MEGAN: But underneath it was well-intentioned people trying to do what they believed was right. So it's really easy to look at the surface and assume the worst of people, assume you understand where they're coming from. But that almost immediately cuts you off from really understanding what they're about.

GLENN: It's one of the reasons why -- I've tried to cut the word evil out of my lexicon because we use that to -- too often. And we use it about people. And I really think most people have great intent. You know, Donald Trump, Barack Obama, you can disagree with either one of them, but neither one of them think they're doing evil. They think they're doing the right thing. You just don't see it that way.

MEGAN: Exactly. I think very few -- maybe sociopaths or psychopaths. And even then --

GLENN: Right.

MEGAN: People who are deliberately doing wrong, I think they're very, very, very few and far between.

GLENN: Yes. Right. And that doesn't mean you have to go along with it, but if you say to them or their followers, you know, your guy is evil, they stop listening to you.

MEGAN: Right. Exactly. And you stop asking questions to get to the bottom of it, which is the second point. Asking questions helps you bridge the gap between your point of view and theirs. It helps you understand where they're coming from actually. And it also signals to the people that you're talking to, that you're actually listening to them.

And that is a huge benefit to the dialogue because they -- they no longer -- they don't want to yell at you. They see that you want to understand. So they're much more willing to engage. So the second point is ask questions.

GLENN: And it matters that they're honest questions, not setup questions. Not a question where I know you're going to say one thing so I can give you the Scripture quote or whatever to beat you.

MEGAN: Exactly.

GLENN: It has to be a question that's not designed for me to win. We're going to take a quick break. Come back with the last two with Megan Phelps-Roper, when we come back.

(OUT AT 10:32AM)

GLENN: Megan Phelps-Roper, somebody that we saw on TED talk, giving a great TED talk on how to bring people together. She was in the -- she's a Phelps. So she's part of the founding family of the Westboro Baptist Church. And she got online and started making friends with people who were friendly to her, not just yelling at her all the time. And she said there are four things that if you really want to change people's minds, four ways of engaging people so that real conversations can take place. The first one is don't assume bad intent. Instead, assume good or neutral intent. The second, ask questions, as opposed to accusing. Ask honest questions. It will help people let them know they've been heard. And quite often, this is all that people want.

The third is stay calm. Welcome back to the program, Megan. Explain stay calm.

MEGAN: So this one is really difficult because the natural inclination is always to respond the way that somebody is -- is speaking to you. So when somebody comes at you with hostility, the instinct is to be defensive and to respond with hostility. But that just brings the conversation to an end quickly. But if you can learn to step back, calm down and -- and try to diffuse the anger -- and you can do it in a few ways.

So, for instance, I actually ended up marrying -- my husband was one of these Twitter friends who started out as this angry, sort of insulting --

GLENN: Wow.

MEGAN: We just got married seven months ago.

GLENN: Congratulations.

MEGAN: Thank you. So what he would do, for instance, he would tell a joke or recommend a book or start talking about music. He would sort of turn away from the hostility for a minute and then come back to it -- come back to it later.

You don't necessarily -- I mean, that's -- that can be a last resort. A lot of times just staying calm and speaking as if you were addressing a friend and not somebody that you hate and that you despise that you can't -- you can't stand to hear their words. It helps so much to keep the conversation going.

GLENN: Step four.

MEGAN: Step four is make the argument.

And this one -- this one seems obvious. But there's this argument that seems to have taken hold on both the left and the right. And I think it stems from the hopelessness you mentioned earlier. Oh, they're just too far gone. They can't be reasoned with. But where does that lead us?

It leaves us at loggerheads. Deadlocked. And no one wants to be there. So you make the argument because they don't understand -- your opponent doesn't necessarily understand your thinking and the way that you're approaching the problem. And by making the argument -- if you fail to do that, you're definitely not going to change someone's mind. You actually have to articulate the reasoning and the thought process behind your position.

And there's actually a fifth point that I would have included if I had enough time -- should I tell you now?

GLENN: Yeah, go ahead.

STU: We're breaking news here. The fifth point in Megan Phelps' TED talk.

GLENN: Go ahead.

(chuckling)

MEGAN: It's take heart. Changing hearts and minds is incremental work, and it takes patience and persistence. And you're not going to see results necessarily immediately, not right away, but we can't give up. You know, and you might not be the person to persuade somebody else to turn away from a bad position, but every interaction is an opportunity to help turn the tide. So stay the course, trust the process, and take heart.

GLENN: How many people -- how many people were like this to you?

MEGAN: Well, the ones who had the biggest impact -- I mean, a handful who were engaging me continually over the course of a couple of years, considering I had been in the church. I had been raised in this. And I was 24 when I got on Twitter. So I was, again, marinating in this ideology and this way of thinking. So the fact that it only took a couple of years to really affect me and how I saw things, I think that's pretty remarkable.

GLENN: So did your husband -- was there a time when your husband -- is now your husband --

MEGAN: Yeah.

GLENN: Was he falling in love with you at the time? Did that happen later? Did he say, I can't believe I'm saying this to you -- I mean, how did that happen?

MEGAN: Well, it's a -- it's a really strange -- it was a really strange dynamic because obviously I was at the church. And at Westboro, you could only marry somebody who was in the church. So we were having these discussions, and there was nothing -- it was like a Jane Austen novel, like nothing overt. Like we couldn't say how we were feeling to each other because it just wasn't acceptable. And he sensed that.

And -- but he also, again, saw that I was a human being. And he came to believe that I had a good heart.

GLENN: So would this have worked -- would this have worked without love?

MEGAN: Well, I think -- well, so here's the thing. I -- yes, I believe so. And the reason is that the very first interaction was with a friend. I mentioned him in the talk too. Jewlicious. His name is David Abitbol.

And so it was -- I think I was talking with him for a little over a year. And, again, he's asking these questions. And in the course of asking these questions, he was the one who found the first -- the first bit of internal inconsistency in Westboro's doctrines. And when I look back at how I responded to that -- so my husband -- I didn't actually start speaking to him until months after that. But when I think about how I responded to that first bit of internal inconsistency, that was when I first started to challenge, in my own mind, Westboro's doctrines.

GLENN: And you didn't let him know that.

MEGAN: No. For sure. As soon as he had made that point, I was actually terrified to speak to him again. I didn't even let on that I recognized that he was right. I just stopped speaking to him.

GLENN: Wow. What was the point, if you don't mind me asking?

MEGAN: Oh, yeah, no, not at all.

It was a sign that said "death penalty for fags."

GLENN: Oh, my gosh.

MEGAN: Yeah. So, of course -- we used, you know, the verses in Leviticus and also in Romans 1 that talk about how, you know, gays are worthy of death. And he brought up -- so he's Jewish. I was really surprised that he brought up Jesus, saying, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

And I didn't -- I just had never connected that that was talking about the death penalty. And we thought, we're not -- we're not casting stones. We're just preaching words.

And David said, "Yeah, but you're advocating that the government cast stones."

And so that -- when I brought that point to other members of the church, the response was just to double down. They never addressed the passage that -- you know, that contradicted us. They just reiterated the passages that supported us. And so that was the first time that -- and the way that I reconciled it in my own mind was I just stopped holding the sign because I didn't know how to defend it anymore. And I didn't believe in it.

GLENN: Did they tell you to stop talking to these people?

MEGAN: I don't think -- I don't think people quite realized how much -- I mean, they knew I was very active on Twitter, but I don't think they realized how much it was affecting the way that I was thinking. I honestly didn't -- didn't understand it either.

Because in my mind -- I think I was in denial about it because -- you are not supposed to be impacted by other people. You are not supposed to be anything, but preaching to them. You're not supposed to really, you know, care -- I was going to say care about them. It was a very strange dynamic. But I was in denial about it. And I think that definitely helped it seem to others as if it wasn't really having an impact on me also.

PAT: Is anybody in your family speaking with you? Do you have a relationship with anybody anymore in the family?

MEGAN: Not anybody in the church, no. But there has been over the last decade or so, about 20 or so people who have either left or have been kicked out of Westboro. And my brother actually, the morning of my high school graduation -- he's a year and a half older than me. We woke up and went downstairs, and all of his stuff was gone. And so I have -- I didn't get to speak with him for the eight and half years between when he left and when I left. But now we're really good friends. And he's wonderful.

PAT: What was he thrown out for?

MEGAN: No, he left actually.

PAT: Oh, he left on his own.

MEGAN: He left at 19. Yeah, he also had Scriptural objections to some things. And also the extreme -- he objected to the extreme level of control because everybody in the church -- we all lived within two blocks or so of one another and did everything together and were obviously not developing relationships with people outside. But the level of control is -- is really -- really, really extreme.

GLENN: Do they -- do you think this will just die out as the family dies out, or?

MEGAN: Actually, I thought about this. My sister and I would talk about this about how could the church end in a way that just wouldn't destroy everybody on the inside?

There's still about the same level of membership as there has been. Because a few people -- a few new converts have joined. And then, of course, my generation has now -- they're having kids. But there's not many.

GLENN: What kind of people would join -- what kind of people join this? They really believe -- the newcomers that come in --

STU: It's one thing to be raised in it, but to be converted as an adult.

GLENN: Decent people. Yeah.

MEGAN: So honestly, I've speculated about this too. So, for instance, my dad -- my dad joined the church long before the picketing started. He was only 16 at the time. And, you know, his family wasn't -- I mean, his mom had been divorced. I don't think he -- he was attracted to the love and unity and connection I think in my family. In the Phelps family, I think. And I think that's a draw for some people. And it really lends credence to the idea that they're doing what they're doing out of love, out of good intentions.

And, again, some people just, I think are drawn to that defense of the idea of having all the answers and knowing for sure what you believe and how you're supposed to live. Like, it's -- that was such a powerful thing. When I left and realized like, I don't -- I don't have that anymore. I don't have that sense of -- it's a very comforting sense of certainty. And, you know, nuance and questions and uncertainty are a lot more difficult to deal with. I think some people are attracted to that part of the church.

GLENN: Next time they're out protesting, what should people do?

MEGAN: I think engaging at protests is actually not a very effective thing because they're -- on picket lines, they're already in these attack/defend mindsets. I think the internet is a much -- you know, Twitter. There's a lot of them on Twitter now. I think that's a more effective way of engaging. But if you -- if you do see them and if you are moved to go and speak to them, just remember that -- that responding with, you know, yelling and name-calling, all those things, it just reinforces what they already believe. It's adding to, you know, their certainty that they're doing the right thing.

GLENN: It is really -- it's really great to talk to you. Megan Phelps-Roper. You can find her @MeganPhelps. That's her Twitter handle. @MeganPhelps.

Really great to talk to you. And thank you for sharing this. And I think you have an important voice that needs to be heard.

STU: And I will say, Megan, will you confirm this, because we got the fifth point out of you, we are 25 percent better than your TED talk.

MEGAN: Yeah, for sure.

GLENN: Megan, can we pay you an off-handed compliment. Stu wanted to say this, we said it during the break. And it's weird because it's exactly what we're talking about. We don't know each other. We don't talk to each other.

We look at people in the Westboro Baptist Church and think that their kids just must be dumb as a box of rocks. And just, oatmeal! Every answer is, oatmeal! (chuckling) And you're so articulate. I mean, it's amazing just to have that view shattered.

MEGAN: Thank you.

I will say -- I mean, another thing that's not so well-known about the church, education was really important in my family. Most of the people there -- many lawyers, people who work in health care, and IT. And they're very well educated.

PAT: Wow.

GLENN: Wow.

MEGAN: Which is partly I think what makes it so much more difficult for them to see outside of it. This is like a psychological thing where, by -- by having these very strong mostly internally consistent arguments, they -- they think they're so certain that they don't even question the -- they don't even question it.

GLENN: Amazing.

MEGAN: But, yeah, anyway...

GLENN: Thank you so much. @MeganPhelps. Thank you so much, Megan. Appreciate it.

MEGAN: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

GLENN: You bet.

Did Obama REALLY Have to Lead a Senile Biden Off Stage?
RADIO

Did Obama REALLY Have to Lead a Senile Biden Off Stage?

The White House now insists that it’s “disinformation” to say that President Biden wandered away from G7 leaders while watching parachutists. He wasn’t lost in his own senile world! He was just greeting another parachutist…and had to be dragged back to the rest of the group. Well, over the weekend, Biden allegedly had a similar moment when former president Barack Obama had to allegedly lead him off stage at a massive fundraiser for his campaign. So, what’s the truth? Glenn and Pat break it down. Plus, they also discuss the upcoming first Trump/Biden debate of the 2024 election: What are Trump’s real odds of winning? Will the White House juice up Biden? And why are they holding it before the parties’ presidential conventions?

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Remember the video of Joe Biden, you know, kind of wanderings off, and Prime Minister Maloney, going over and grabbing him and bringing him back in a very graceful way.

The White House has now come out and said, this is disinformation.

And there are stories everywhere about this. On how this is disinformation.

He was looking at some of the other parachutists, and he just wanted to go over and salute them and congratulate them. Maybe it's true. Maybe it's not true.

But it certainly is true, that he is not looking presidential. He is not paying attention. He is in his own little world.

PAT: Yeah.

GLENN: But they notice that they say, this is disinformation.

They say that to discredit anyone. Now, let me take it a step further. Over the weekend, there was a -- there was a fundraiser in California. In Los Angeles.

PAT: Huge.

GLENN: Yeah. Huge. And I think $50 million. Something like that. Jimmy Kimmel hosted it and Barack Obama was there with Joe Biden.

PAT: George Clooney. Julia Roberts. A bunch of stars. Yeah.

GLENN: At the end, Joe Biden is standing there with his hands kind of clenched a couple of times. But his hands -- and he was in that frozen lip sort of look. And when it comes time to leave the stage, Obama just reaches over and grabs Biden by the wrist and leads him off the stage. And it looks horrible, absolutely horrible. We can't show that video today, because it's something that all of us in the media are experiencing right now. Lawfare. We are being sued and everybody in our position are being sued if we play any clip. And, you know, it's weird. We don't get in trouble for playing clips that, you know, are neutral. Or don't have anything to do with anything, but, you know, Joe Biden. And the left.

We can't play them. And they're -- they're charging now. Like that clip is $600 for one -- one play. One play.

PAT: Uh-huh.

GLENN: And I don't even know if that includes on the internet and replays and everything else.

So they're making it impossible, for to us show you clips, of things that happened.

PAT: That are all over the internet, by the way. They're all over -- we just can't talk about them. We can't do it.

I mean, we can talk about it. But we can't show it. The problem makes it worse, right?

GLENN: I think it does. I was just going to say that. I think it makes it much worse.

If I describe to you, Joe Biden on the stage, and he's in that pose. And he's just stiff, and his hands are clenched.

And Obama grabs him by the arm. Your imagination might make that worse, than it actually is.

PAT: Yeah.

GLENN: You might watch that and go, well, it's not that bad. But if we can't play it, you don't get to decide. And that's the point.

PAT: Yeah.

GLENN: You don't get to decide.

PAT: But Obama definitely grabs him by the wrist and starts leading him out, and then he smoothly kind of makes it like, oh, this is my good buddy, and puts him arm around him. And then he just pushes him off the stage. He just guides him the whole way.

GLENN: The whole time. The whole time.

PAT: And never -- never removes his arm from -- from Joe Biden's back.

It's amazing to watch. And I don't know how they explain that away. I'm sure they will just say, oh, they are just very close.

GLENN: Yeah. Barack does not like Joe Biden.

PAT: No. Not in a minute.

GLENN: There's something else. Is the debate on Thursday or Friday of this week?

PAT: It's a week from Thursday.

GLENN: A week from Thursday. I am reading so much that Donald Trump is just going to cream him and everything else.

I -- I would be very careful with your predictions on this. First of all, it -- it will higher expectations. So everybody will expect him to just make a clean sweep. And if he doesn't, then it looks like a loss for Donald Trump.

So be careful on the way you're being used.

PAT: Yeah. True.

GLENN: To talk about this.

And the other thing is, and we will find this out. Well, we won't. But our kids and grandkids will find out. I'm convinced that they juice him.

PAT: Oh, for sure. Just like they did for the State of the Union Address.

GLENN: Well, we don't know that for sure, but we speculate.

PAT: Yes. Yes.

GLENN: He comes out, and he is a different man entirely.

PAT: Uh-huh.

GLENN: And, you know, they did this for JFK, and everything else.

And we didn't know about it, for 20 years. But, you know, just like Elvis and everybody else.

You have to perform. Let's get him to performance level, and they juice him up. And so he will be clear. I think he will actually do well. He will be clear. Donald Trump could also look like a bully, to this sweet little old man.

I mean, honestly

PAT: It's possible.

GLENN: You have no idea, how this thing is going to play out. No idea.

The question we should be asking is: Why are they doing it, before either of them are officially the candidate of their party?

PAT: Is your thought on that, that they could make a change if they decide to.

GLENN: I have no thought on it.

I have no thought on it. Other than, we're probably not going to get a debate before the election. And, you know, there's a million ways you can go. You know, if he doesn't do well. They can change him.

You know, if he gets worse in the next six months. They know what they're dealing with now.

But what will he be like in November? Look how fast this guy is deteriorating. So maybe it's that. I don't know.

But in my lifetime, Pat. I don't think I've ever seen a debate between the two candidates. In a presidential debate, before the two conventions.

PAT: No. I don't think it's happened. I think this is the earliest ever.

GLENN: Right. Right. So what is that all about?

Why is that happening?

PAT: It might be. Yeah. I think like you said. It could be a number of things.

But one of the things that I think is pretty obvious.

Is that if he performs badly. You have meant of time to recover from that. If this happens right before. Right before the election, and he performs terribly, like we expect him to.

Or so many of us do.

Then that hurts him.

But if it's six months before, you forget.

GLENN: Right. And if he does really, really well, like he did in the State of the Union.

I mean, I thought it was a horrible speech. And I disagreed with almost he went he ever said.

PAT: But perform better than I thought he would.

GLENN: Oh, yeah. He performed like he was there.

And if he performs like he is there, then they have that to go to all the time. Over and over again. No matter what he's like. You know. Because you cannot have. You can't have the performance of the State of the Union. And the performance in the rest of his life. You know, you just -- it doesn't -- they're juicing him with something. Something is happening.

To get him to that state. And I think he will be in that state.

Which everybody will say. Because they're expecting such a poor performance of him.

Oh, look. He's not as bad as everybody says.

Glenn Schools CNN: Why America is a REPUBLIC, Not a Democracy
RADIO

Glenn Schools CNN: Why America is a REPUBLIC, Not a Democracy

CNN recently asked Trump supporters about America’s “democracy” and were terrified to discover that they believed we’re not a democracy, but a republic. Well, sorry CNN, but that’s true, no matter what the “experts” claim. Glenn breaks it all down for them and explains why our Founders chose to combine the principles of a republic and a democracy to create the system we have now…or do we? Glenn explains how our system of unelected, faceless bureaucrats is the real danger, not Trump supporters…

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I have some -- some breaking news from CNN. We apparently are not a republic.

Now, I want you to listen to the -- please, I haven't said this in a long time. But just about everything pisses me off so much, and I can't believe it, that I've kind of have given up on my head not exploding.

But I guarantee you, your head will explode on this CNN clip.

So please, wrap your head tightly in duct tape. It will explode.

But at least you will have all the pieces that way, when you walk in, they will be like, oh, another head explosion.

And you will have all the pieces, so they can stitch you back together.

But your head will explode on this. Here's the latest from CNN.

VOICE: President Biden's House's re-election campaign is a fight to preserve democracy. If you ask some Trump supporters, the former president is not a threat to democracy, because the United States is not a democracy.

VOICE: Obviously, there's a lot of criticisms of Trump, that he is bad for democracy. That he's bad for American democracy.

VOICE: We are a republic. We are not a democracy.

VOICE: We are a republic, we're not a democracy.

VOICE: One thing we've been hearing at Trump rallies like this over the past few months. Is that America isn't really a democracy.

VOICE: America is not a democracy. It's a republic. .

VOICE: Look, it's not a democracy. Democracy is actually not as good as you think it is.

VOICE: America is a democracy. It was founded as a democracy.

VOICE: Here's the expert.

VOICE: I've had heard a lot of conspiracy theories, I hear a lot of things out on the road. But to hear Americans, people who describe themselves as patriots, say that America is not a democracy. That stopped me in my tracks.

GLENN: Right.

VOICE: You were hearing people say America is not a democracy because there are people around Trump who want them to be saying that. Who have planted that narrative.

GLENN: Okay. They've been planting that narrative. Continue on. Please. Play some more if there's more. Oh, you have to get to the end. See if you can get to the rest of it. Where they go back and talk to people and they're saying, you're wrong. We're not a republic.

And they make this into a giant scandal.

We are a republic!

And to the republic, for which it stands! Okay?

Here's the problem, people don't understand what the difference is between a democracy.

We are a democracy, on voting day.

One man. One vote.

You go in. And you use the democratic principle of one man, one vote.

And you democratically elect people to their position.

But what you're not doing is voting on every single law.

You are voting for a representative.

That representative represents you in the republic. A republic has people -- understands that people can't understand every single issue and be voting on every single issue. A republic also understands that a democracy is bad. A -- democracy-only country will every time. Because all you need is to whip enough people into a frenzy. Schedule a vote. They'll vote, the way you want them to vote. It will bring you things like the Patriot Act, when something bad happens, people will be like, we've got to stop all those Japanese! Let's put them into a camp!

Okay? You have a republic to slow the process down and give reason a chance. Can you imagine this country voting on every single issue? When they don't even know the difference between a republic and a democracy? And when you have media, that is going to experts -- so-called experts. And telling us, that we're -- we're not a republic!

A lot of time was spent with the Founders trying to find the best system. They ruled democracy out, because they always fail.

So they took the democratic principle, which is one man, one vote. Used that to select representatives.

We are a representative republic. And that you have to be able to explain that to people.

You have to understand, look, democracy is a very important part of our republic. But it is not what we are.

We are a democratic republic. So we vote for the people to represent us. Why is the democracy part so important?

Well, the democracy part is really important because what was the war in heaven, all about?

If you go back and you read your Scriptures and you look at the war in heaven, what was it about?

It was about Satan saying, I'll cleanse all of them. You don't need anything, but me. I'll go down, and I will tell everyone, what they're supposed to do and keep them from sinning.

I'll keep them safe, and they won't make any decisions on their own. I'll tell them they can only do these things. Then Jesus stood up and said, no. They must have freedom of choice.

And so, I will go down, and atone for all of their mistakes.

So the very first thing, in the -- the very first argument, in all of the Scriptures, the first argument was over free choice.

Do I have someone make all the decisions to keep me safe, and free from all harm?

Or do I have a savior, that will rebalance things and make sure that you're clean enough?

Because no one can be clean enough!

No one will ever be perfect on earth!

Unless, Satan would say, somebody tells them exactly what they can and cannot do.

Well, that is a misunderstanding of human nature. That is a misunderstanding of God's nature.

So one man, one vote. Yes! Very important.

But then take human nature into account!

Human nature is to just go with their feelings. That's a bad idea. So the whole Constitution is written, to restrain the government, so they cannot make every decision for you, like they're trying to.

This is when people say, government thinks it's God.

Government is their God.

Yes, it is!

Because they want it to make all of the decisions for you. Does that sound like the plan of Jesus? Or the plan of Satan?

So you elect the representatives. They answer to you.

This is why they're the one that holds the purse.

Congress is supposed to be the only one that can initiate pending.

But these people who claim they're for democracy, are just spending it in any way.

It doesn't matter. They hold the purse. They're the closest to you. They're elected every two years.

Why? Because you need to be able to tell your representative, no! That's not what we want. That's why every bill of spending, everything, needs to start with Congress! But what happened to Congress? Why isn't Congress doing everything?

Well, they'll say it's because of the Republicans and the Democrats. No. It's because no one in Washington wants it to work that way! They want to be able to issue dictates! Dictate. Dictate. That's the root word of something else. Oh! A dictator.

They want to issue either an executive order, which is part of the American republic, but they were never meant to be used like this.

All the things that are going through executive order now, are the responsibility of Congress and the Senate!

They were never -- we were never to be ruled by faceless bureaucrats, that no one elected. You want to talk about back to democracy, the EPA.

The ATF. The -- the housing people. The -- the Fed! All of these things, that you never elected. You never elected any of those people. And it's okay if they are hired to be in there to make the system work. But instead, they're making the rules, which become laws.

Only Congress can make laws. But we don't do that anymore. That's why we have to restore the republic. Democracy is happening. And democracy is very important.

But we have to restore the republic. Because the republic part of our democratic republic is broken!

Oh. These -- the -- the lies and the lies from not only the media, but the so-called experts, when are we going to stop listening to these experts?

Well, I'll tell you. I'll tell you. Because the rest of that CNN report, went on. And went back to the people who said, we're a republic. Not a democracy.

And then they couldn't understand. They couldn't define what a republic was.

Well, you're of no help.

You're of no help. That's why we have the experts.

Don't claim something, if you don't -- all knowledge. All information. Everything you believe must be yours.

And it must be purchased at the price, that apparently is too high for somebody -- some people to pay. Most Americans to pay. The price you have for your opinion, is it is your opinion, that you have done some sort of research, you've done some sort of thinking on this. And you haven't taken it from a boob like me, and just, oh, yeah. He said it. And it sounded really good. So we are a republic not a democracy. You can't take what I have spent my lifetime learning and studying, you can't take it from me.

It must be your own. It's like a testimony of God. If you don't have a testimony, that is yours. If you are feasting on somebody else's, you're doomed.

Okay?

It won't work. It will break down. And people will say, well, wait a minute. What about this or this or this.

If you haven't thought of that, then you don't really have a testimony. If you haven't thought -- when I say, well, what is the difference between a republic and a democracy?

If you can't explain that, how do you think can't kids are going to explain it? How do you think you can possibly defend the United States of America?

If we don't know what our rights are, if we don't know why they were established.

See, this is -- give me. Give me a minute.

I'll come back in just a second.

First, let me take a minute here. A break. And tell you about the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews.

On June 8th, in a daring daytime raid, Israeli security forces rescued four hostages, held by Hamas terrorists in Gaza.

Some were being held in the homes of Palestinian citizens. A man named Aaron Zamora. Commander of the police special counterterrorism unit.

He was killed during the time rescue. Israel's ground campaign against Hamas continues. Even as Hezbollah is attacking them from the north.

The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews has a pledge that they are asking Christians to take.

To stand with their Jewish brothers and centers. To never be silent. The first step in this, is to know why the Jewish people, and why Israel, even exists!

Why does Israel exist?

If you don't know the answer to that, then you're of no help.

Israel exists for one reason, this is just one reason. And that is so they can defend themselves!

Because everywhere Jews go, they end up being the scapegoat. And they can't defend themselves. Because the country will say, well, they're dangerous.

We need to disarm them. Well, no, no, no. We'll protect you.

Then they never do. At least if they have a homeland, they can defend themselves. Anyway, the pledge is to ask you to say, I understand never again. I understand never again is now. At all times. I understand what is happening in the world, and the evil that is happening.

And I, as a Christian, pledge to the Jews all around the world, by neighbors in Israel, everywhere. I will stand with you.

Will you sign this pledge? Go to SupportIFCJ.org. That's SupportIFCJ.org.

And take a stand today. Ten-second station ID.
(music)
Now, let me ask you something: Why would people who say one man, one vote, is so important. Be the leaders on stealing votes.

Why would somebody who really, truly believes in democracy, also at the same time be saying, it's about the collective.

Why?

If you believe in the principle of democracy.

That's the individual, having a voice.

And we have that here in America.

That's part one of our republic. The individual has a voice.

Now, why does the individual have a voice? Because, again, back to the war in heaven. Christ said, I will atone for all of them.

Individually, it wasn't collective, we must. We can't earn it as an individual.

We can't earn it as a collective. But it was personal. An individual to each of us.

Okay. That's where we get all men are created equal. They are created spiritually equal. It doesn't mean they're born in equal families with equal opportunities. Or they'll have equal outcomes.

It means we all are the same in the spirit.

That -- that spark of life is the same in all of us.

And we all have the same rights, no matter what station you were born in. No matter who you are. You still have the same basic human right.

The Gnostics tried to make this into a 1 percent kind of deal. The Gnostics were like, well, not everybody is safe. I mean, those who know. They will be safe.

But not everybody.

This is why we're supposed to treat everyone equally.

This is why we're supposed to treat people like our brothers and sisters.

Because we literally are spiritual brothers and sisters of each other. And if we can get to a point to where we can see the spiritual spark in every human being, even when we meet them.

Even when we don't like them. Even if -- even if they're trying to destroy us. They are still that person! They're still a human being. My brother or sister.

This is why trials are supposed to be done. Justice is blind. Because you're not supposed to look at the R or the D, after their name. You're not supposed to look for the Trump or the Biden. You're supposed to look at the lay, and the claim of the breaking of the law. And the facts. And that's it!

With democracies, you get a mob.

And in the end, you always get the collective. Both of those are evil!

Control Freaks: The 'Scientific' Roots of Progressive Tyranny | The Beck Story | Ep 1
THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

Control Freaks: The 'Scientific' Roots of Progressive Tyranny | The Beck Story | Ep 1

How did unelected “experts” with their unwavering devotion to “science” rise to such power in American life? More than a century ago, an engineer named Frederick W. Taylor inspired progressive activists with a new concept he called “scientific management.” Future Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis took Taylor’s concept and married it with political power. Brandeis teamed up with President Woodrow Wilson and a powerful senator named Robert La Follette to give the nation an “expert” makeover that Americans were not asking for. This is the story of how a cult of expertise developed among progressives and how these “experts” took a sledgehammer to our constitutional system of government, with far-reaching consequences that still reverberate today. '

NOTE: Episode 2 is available NOW wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe, rate, and review to help the “The Beck Story” climb the charts!

Why Biden Won't Stop "Racist" Government DEI Programs, But Trump Would
RADIO

Why Biden Won't Stop "Racist" Government DEI Programs, But Trump Would

Former president Donald Trump has proposed an idea to abolish the income tax and replace it with more tariffs on foreign goods. Is this a good strategy if Trump wins the presidency? Sen. JD Vance gives Glenn his take: "We want to tax production less. We want to tax making stuff in China more...it's a really smart idea to reward [Americans] for making things." Plus, Sen. Vance details his proposal to dismantle ALL federal DEI programs: "The way that our federal government has interpreted [diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives] is to explicitly allow racist decision making."

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

And J.D. Vance is on the phone with us. J.D. Vance, senator from Ohio. Also a short list. For Donald Trump.

I'm sure he's going to -- he's just dying to talk about that. Because they always are. Everybody on the short list. They're like, oh, please, ask me about that. So, go ahead.

Spill it. Spill the beans. Spill the beans.

J.D.: My favorite topic.

GLENN: Yeah, I know.

J.D.: I said this, Glenn. I have not talked about Trump about it. Yes, I am aware that they're looking at me. And I think they're probably looking at 20 other people. And I'm sure they will make this decision. And if it's me, like I said, repeatedly, I would be interested in it, because I think it's important to help him. Because if he doesn't win this election, this country is in a tough spot. So that's pretty much it.

GLENN: Now, you were in the meeting with him yesterday, right?

J.D.: I was, yeah.

GLENN: Yeah. Because he said, the guy I'm going to pick is most likely in this room with us now.

J.D.: Oh, I didn't see that.

But unfortunately, for the oddsmakers, there were like 49 other people in the room. So it doesn't help.

GLENN: Yeah. So tell me a little --

J.D.: Yeah. Let me just sort of set the stage. One is a very positive meeting. You obviously have people who are more allied with the president and his agenda. You know, like me and Bill Hagerty and Marco Rubio and so forth.

And you also have people in the rooms, who are very -- you know, even in the last couple of months, have been very critical of the president.

And I think what you saw is just a recognition that we have to unify to the Republican Party. When there's an election.

GLENN: Thank you.

J.D.: And look, there are guys that are running, that I wish their primary opponents had won. And I wish we had a different candidate representing the Republican Party. But there isn't a single person running, at least in the Senate, who I would rather have as a Democrat take their spot.

The other thing that is really interesting, Glenn. You have to realize, the internal psychology of Republican senators right now. They're looking at every single one of these Senate ballots, in the polls.

Suggest that whether it's by five points or 15 points, our Senate candidates are running behind Donald Trump, in the core battle states. If we actually want to take back the Senate with a solid majority.

We need the president to help us close the margin between our guys and his margins.

And I think he will help us do that. As we get down the stretch here.

There's just a recognition here. That you happen into something, especially into this cycle. And if we can get that thing to reverberate to the benefit of our Senate candidate, we can win a major, major victory in the United States Senate.

GLENN: And he was -- he was really kind of conciliatory yesterday. He seemed to be in good spirits.

And, you know, recognizing that we -- you know, we don't all agree on everything.

At least that was the impression that I got from his conversation.

Would you -- would you agree with that?

JASON: Yeah. I agree with that, Glenn. He was extremely friendly.

He was obviously in a good mood. I think, you know, he made -- he was very friendly to Mitch McConnell, of course, who has not always been the best ally of Donald Trump.

He was friendly to everybody in the room. And, you know, he said like, look, even when we disagree, our disagreements pale in comparison to the Democrats.

And we're at this stage. And, you know, I've done this now, Glenn, twice. I've been in politics for two cycles. Where right now, we're sort of in the hurt feelings stage.

Where a lot of people who didn't win primaries, grassroots activists, donors, state chairmen and so forth, they're kind of frustrated. And they're exhausted from the primary season.

And they're not thinking about the future. And I just think, you know, Trump is maybe the only guy in the party who can kind of stand before everybody and say, look. Yeah. Maybe your guy didn't win. Maybe we haven't agreed on everything.

But now it's time to save the country. And to do that, we have to win.

GLENN: He said yesterday, that he was. And I'm going to get to something that you want to talk about. The DEI programs going away, which is so important.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We'll get to you in a second. But one more question on this meeting yesterday with Trump.

He said that he wanted to abolish the income tax, and replace it with tariffs.

J.D.: So that was not in our meeting. I think it may have been in another meeting that take. I saw the headline. That was not in our meeting.

Look, this is a fascinating proposal. And we can talk for a while about it.

But, you know, we have to sort of think about, when we tax something, we get less of it.

And we should ask ourselves. We have to raise revenues for the military. And Social Security and so forth.

GLENN: Correct.

J.D.: What do we actually want to raise revenues from? And my view would be, we want to tax production less. We want to tax making stuff in China more.

Well, that's what a tariff fundamentally does. Whether you get rid of the whole income tax. I think it's a really smart idea to say, we want to reward people for making things. We want to reward productive work. We don't want to reward making stuff in the home country of our chief rival.

And I think that's fundamentally where Trump's head is on this matter.

GLENN: Yeah. Well, I will tell you, I think if we don't take control of the Senate and the House and the White House, we're just going to be treading water at best.

If they win those, we are -- we are done.

They have -- they have put so many deadly fruit trees in all of our agencies, and all of our government.

That I just don't see us being able to survive it. The fundamental transformation will be finished, in the next term.

And you have introduced legislation to dismantle all of the federal DEI programs, from the federal government.

Thank you!

J.D.: Yeah. We have. And to your point about the Senate, Glenn, this -- the Senate, of course, we approved all of the political appointees. And if you want to root out the Deep State of the bureaucracy, you need political appointees who are aligned with the agenda.

And what this legislation does. I'm not an idiot. Joe Biden will not sign it, but Donald Trump would.

And what it would do is really destroy the diversity, equity, and inclusion bureaucracy that exists in our country. And people say, well, who doesn't like diversity, right?

Doesn't diversity mean, you have my Mexican restaurant down the street.

No. The way the federal government has interpreted this. Is to explicitly allow racist decision-making. Primarily targeting white and Asian-Americans. Now in the 21st century.

But explicitly racist decision-making. And contracting and hiring in the provision of grants. Some of these programs, by the way, have been held flatly illegal by the federal courts. For example, there was a farm program, that explicitly excluded white Americans from the provision of farm assistants to our farmers, and that's ridiculous.

You can't discriminate, whether black or white, against people on the basis of their skin color.

This would proactively root this stuff out of our government, and it's a very important first step to getting basic merit back in our federal system, Glenn.

GLENN: Yeah, and I don't think even black farmers would -- would have wanted that.

I mean, maybe some would. But, you know, farmers rely on each other.

And they need to help each other.

Because, you know, if Bill's crop is down year. It might be my crop down this year.

We're all in this together. The last thing you want is now new racial barriers between neighbors.

Where he gets the help from the government, and we don't. It's not a good idea.

GLENN: It's not a good idea at all, Glenn.

And to your point about how black farmers feel about this stuff. If you look at public polling on this. What you consistently find is that black Americans.

And most Americans don't like racial quote as. They don't like racial discrimination. Whether it benefits them. Their group or harms their group.

One group of Americans that seems to really like racial quote as are very high education, white Americans.

GLENN: White. I know.

J.D.: That is the one group. That is the one group that seems -- by the way, they're not going to lose out, when the quota system comes out. Because they pull all the strings.

But they're not doing it for the good of the country. I think they're fundamentally doing it because they look down -- they look down on white Americans who don't have their same education status.

And a lot of -- one of my theories, Glenn. A lot of what is broken about America. High education whites who really hate low education whites.

And I think you see this as a main driver of a lot of very stupid public policy. And, frankly, a lot of very evil public policy in this country. So we have to root it out. That's what I'm trying to do.

GLENN: I mean, it's really -- I mean, this -- can it wasn't like this before. Because our education system was much more local. You know, and -- and not as -- you know, you didn't have all of the smart people, going to this one college. And so they were only surrounded by really, really smart people.

And then get married to the same kind of thinking. You know, you would have a great disparity in -- in education and experience in families.

All the time.

But now, the elites, they wouldn't marry into a farming family. They don't understand it. They don't like it, generally speaking.

JASON: No. That's right. Glenn, so there is this real classism, right?

I think that's a much bigger problem than racism in modern America. But it's actually made our American system much stupider. Because to your point, you know, the smart kids would be woo become doctors and lawyers and engineers. And the kids who didn't like school as much, would sort of do something else. Sort of everybody lived together and worked together. And the community kind of worked together.

When you silo people by education, what we find is that we send people to colleges, and they don't get good training in useful skills.

They increasingly get indoctrinated in how to be crazy people.

Even the educational institutions stop serving their function. When you stratify this thing in a way.

And I think you're seeing evidence of that in our country right now.

GLENN: What are the chances that this even passes?

I know Biden will not sign it. But you think it will even get passed?

J.D.: Look, I don't think it will get out of the Senate. I think the House will support this.

What we're trying to do is plant seeds. One of the things that happened in the 2016 campaign, is Republicans really expected Trump to lose. So when he actually won, there wasn't the foundational work that had been done, to make the -- the -- you know, just to pass a bunch of legislation.

GLENN: Good. Good.

J.D.: We're trying to do that. We're trying to set up the next administration for success.

And at the very least, have a debate about what kind of country we want. Do we want a country that discriminates based on race? I think the answer is no, and I think 90 percent of people agree with me.

GLENN: Do you believe that the -- the next administration can fire enough people, to make a difference in the Deep State?

BRIDGET: I do, Glenn. But it will be one of the most important fights.

I think the two things that hopefully President Trump does in his second term. And I know he wants to do. That will cause massive backlash from the media. We need to support a large number of illegal immigrants that have come here the last number of years.

And we also really need to root out the federal bureaucracy, to make it more responsive. To make it smaller.

But to make it really democratically accountable to the people elected president.

The media will howl about this stuff. They will call it fascism. They will call it every name in the book.

GLENN: It's the opposite!

J.D.: It's the opposite. Exactly. It's accountability.

That's the opposite of fascism. And, frankly, we have fascism at the bureaucratic level. Where people's lives are controlled by people they never elected, right?

That's not democracy. That's not the Republican form of government. So look, this is the most important thing structurally that we have to fix at the government.

I think Trump is committed to it.

And I think the question is: Do you have enough Republicans in there, who have the willpower and the courage to fight alongside of them? And I think that's the big question.

GLENN: I hope -- yeah, well, we have a lot of people like you, where when we did the Tea Party thing years ago, we didn't -- we didn't have -- we just didn't have the people in there, who really, truly had the foundation that they had been thinking about for a long time.

And I think we do now. We have a lot of really good people. We need more. But this is the best chance, of success, that I've seen in -- in a very long time.

The Tea Party turned out to be, you know, we were really fighting the -- the Deep State, in the Republican Party. And I think that one is on its last legs.
(music)

J.D.: We need to win the fight, Glenn. If we don't, I think we could really lose our country.

GLENN: Yes. I agree. JD. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. Senator J.D. Vance from Ohio. This is a good seed planting. Because DEI does need to go from all of our federal agencies and federal programs.

Thank you so much, J.D. Appreciate it.