Glenn Talks With Megan Phelps-Roper, Former Westboro Baptist Church Member

Megan Phelps-Roper joined Glenn on radio this week for an enlightening discussion about her conversion from Westboro Baptist Church member to someone focused on understanding and inclusion. Like Glenn, Phelps-Roper is a hopeful advocate for bringing people together through honest, civil conversations --- and she's laid out a four-step plan to do just that.

RELATED: 4 Steps to Break Down Walls From a Former Westboro Baptist Church Member

Enjoy the complimentary clip or read the transcript for details.

Welcome to the program, Megan, how are you?

MEGAN: I'm wonderful. How are you?

GLENN: I'm good. It's really an honor to talk to you. We're big fans of what you said in your TED talk, especially from where you started, you know, in a church that is more than a little tough.

MEGAN: Yes. Absolutely.

I grew up at the Westboro Baptist Church. And my family -- the church is almost entirely my family. So around 80 percent -- there's only 80 or so people in the church. And about 80 percent are people -- my grandfather is the one who founded the church. And my mother was the de facto spokesperson for a long time. So, yeah, I grew up on the picket line.

PAT: Yeah, you actually held those hate-filled signs at funerals and other places, right?

GLENN: When you were a kid.

MEGAN: Yes. Absolutely.

PAT: Yeah.

MEGAN: It started out as a protest at a local park, and it sort of really expanded from there. As soon as, you know -- my grandfather was very aggressive, kind of hostile personality. So when people started to come out to counterprotest, everybody who was against us became a target. And eventually -- what started out as it being a protest against gay people, became, you know, we were protesting against other Christians and Jews. It expanded rapidly, until literally everyone outside of our church became a target. And so it was basically a -- you know, I was marinating in this idealogy of everybody is against us. We are against everybody because they're all against the Scriptures. You know, memorizing chapter and verse why they're wrong and why they're headed for hell. And it's our duty to go out and warn them.

STU: I'm fascinated, Megan, because I think to my childhood, and I remember fun picnics and fun trips to amusement parks and things like that. Do you have those types of memories, or is it just -- is there a competition between that and you carrying some awful sign around during a protest?

MEGAN: No. I absolutely have those memories. My -- a lot of people have a hard time understanding that they -- other than these protests and that worldview, they're -- we were a very normal -- obviously there's a lot of kids in our family. There's 11 kids in my family. And -- but we played video games and read books. And we went to public school. And, yeah, we went to amusement parks. We did all of those things, but we also -- that was all sort of organized around this nationwide picketing campaign.

So I have -- I absolutely have both, but that -- that loving family -- the nature of that is part of what makes it so, so, so hard to leave or to even consider leaving. The idea of giving it all up.

GLENN: So I just had a guy in who we're going to interview on a program that I'm working on. He was a member of the Hitler Youth. Now, he's in his 80s now. But he came of age in the Hitler Youth, until I think World War II ended, when he was 20. And he still had -- he sees the world very differently. He thinks that Churchill is a war -- should be held for war crimes. A war criminal.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: And he doesn't agree with Hitler. But he said, I never saw -- we never saw any of that. At least he said, I didn't. I was in the front row of the 36 Olympics. You know, I -- I saw all the good stuff. And the bad stuff that was thrown up, you just dismissed it because you thought it was somebody that was trying to tear us down. Is that kind of the way your childhood was in a way?

MEGAN: Well, I mean, I know -- I knew at the time -- so, for instance, the funeral picketing, I knew at the time that it was hurtful. But the way that it was framed in our church was, you know, these people don't understand that they're headed for hell, for eternal destruction. And it's a loving thing to go and warn them.

And so I saw it as a necessary evil, like we had to go do this because this was the truth and the only thing that mattered, more than anything else was the truth. And it didn't matter how we said it, where we said, or in what context, it was always a good thing. And -- and it was a point of pride for us not to consider people's feelings.

GLENN: And the people -- and the people that were coming against you, because they were screaming back in your face, it only reinforced that these are bad people.

MEGAN: Absolutely. Especially because -- I mean, there's all these passages. So, for instance, Jesus talks about blessed are ye when men shall hate you and revile you and persecute you, for my name sake. So for us, like we wanted that. It was -- we expected it. It was confirmation that we were doing the Lord's work.

STU: Wow.

GLENN: Now, take us to how someone finally broke through.

MEGAN: So Twitter -- Twitter was -- and I didn't realize it at first. I didn't realize that it was happening exactly. But Twitter was an empathy machine for me.

I really hate how it's gotten such a bad rap because that platform has done more to teach me good communication and how to engage with people than almost anything else in my life.

So on Twitter, people would -- would come at me with the same kind of, you know, hateful rhetoric and loud, you know, accusations and just very bitter. And, again, I expected it.

And I would respond, you know, in kind. And -- but then some people -- and I don't know exactly why or what motivated them. I think they -- they saw -- they say that they saw something in me that maybe I would listen or something. But in any case, they stopped yelling and stopped, you know, insulting me and started to ask questions. And they were like -- they seemed like they were actually listening to me.

GLENN: They were honest questions. They were honest questions.

PAT: Yes.

GLENN: They weren't questions of setup.

MEGAN: Right. Exactly.

And it made me feel -- and because, again, I thought I was doing a good thing. I thought that those words that we were preaching, I thought that was the absolute, unquestionable truth. So I wanted to share it with them. That's why I was on social media.

And so I would, you know, answer their questions and sort of -- we had these back-and-forths. But then because of Twitter, I'm also seeing the photos they post of their children and their friends. And it just became this -- this way for me to see people as human beings. And it was because of the way -- because of the fact that they stopped -- the way they engaged me.

STU: That's incredible, that that came from Twitter too. Someone tweeted the other day, Instagram, my life is a party. Snapchat, my life is a quirky TV show. Facebook, my life turned out great. Twitter, we're all going to die. When I go on Twitter, man, I just get so depressed. But it's amazing you were able to take that out of this.

MEGAN: Yeah. I know. But there's a couple of things about Twitter that were really helpful to me. So like, for instance, the character limit, it first made me give up insults. Because at Westboro, we would include these elaborate insults when we responded to questions that people sent us by email. But on Twitter, there just wasn't space for it.

And also, Twitter was just this immediate feedback loop. If I did insult somebody, I could watch the conversation just derail in realtime. I could see that I wasn't getting my point across because I was too busy indulging that vengeful little voice in my head that wanted to call people names. I mean, we all have this feedback loop.

GLENN: Megan, I will tell you, I've been doing these kinds of experiments myself over the last couple of years, where I've gotten in -- because I just stopped engaging for a while. About years ago, I decided, you know what, I'm just going to answer everybody and assume the best. And just answer the -- the worst with something kind and try to be humble and kind and nice to everybody. Really hard to do.

And it's amazing the results. It's truly remarkable. It doesn't cure everybody by any stretch. But it's remarkable.

And I've talked about it on the air. And so many people say, it's not going to make a difference. You can't engage with them. They're all crazy. They're all whatever. What would you say to that?

MEGAN: Man, I just disagree so -- so much with the idea of hopelessness when it comes to talking to people.

I had -- I had grown up, you know, being -- basically cultivating this mindset of us versus them, being wary -- like specifically being wary of people's kindness. And even though I consciously was aware and trying not to be persuaded by kindness, it was still a powerful thing.

It's really interesting because over the past few years, I've been thinking about this a lot obviously. Because it's only been four years since I left. So it's kind of been just this huge -- you know, huge event in my life. And what you're describing there, about, you know, assuming the best and, you know, changing the way you respond. So if somebody comes at you angry and you respond in kindness and angry, that's called like, non-complimentary behavior. And we as human beings are wired to respond in kind.

But like you said, it's incredibly difficult to do. But we can cultivate a more useful mindset. Like one thing you said -- well, my mom used to tell me, to make sure my behavior was appropriate, I should add the word "judge" on to the end of my sentence, as in, "Here's why I did it, Judge." And I still use that trick, except now I add the word "friend." If someone attacks me and I start to get riled up, I try to pause for a beat and add friend, as if I'm disagreeing with someone I love. And I don't do it to be a goody two-shoes. I do it because it works. It's just so much more effective than anger or insults or hostility.

GLENN: All right. I want to get to -- you say there are four steps. And I want to get to those here in a second. Let me just ask you one more question, and then I have to take a quick break.

Do you -- are you well aware of how appropriately timed your discovery and your story is for the rest of the world?

MEGAN: I -- I just -- I hope that -- I hope that I can be a voice or that the story can be something that will help other people see the value in engaging. Because honestly, my experience has -- has given me so much hope. I never thought I would leave. And at first, when I first left, I thought that my family, there was no hope for most of my family. I don't believe that anymore. And I'm still reaching out to them. I'm still trying to convince them to see things other ways. And if there's hope for me, if I changed, I think that there's a lot of hope.

You know, I know that the political climate is so polarized right now, but I can't help but feel so hopeful.

GLENN: Megan Phelps-Roper. She'll continue with us here in just a second. You need to hear what her solution is. It's really a four-step process. And it's really pretty easy. Left the Westboro Baptist Church because of kindness. You want to hear her whole story. Watch the TED video because it's quite amazing.


Megan Phelps-Roper is a former member of the Westboro Baptist Church, where people were kind to her and started to talk to her. And she says, this really works. And, you know, you could be in the cult of a political part. And I think this works. I think we need this across all lines in the world right now.

Megan, you did a TED talk. You said there are four tips on how to talk to people who you disagree with.

MEGAN: Yes. Exactly.

You want me to tell them to you?

GLENN: Yeah. Sure.

MEGAN: So the first one is -- I think it's really important -- don't assume bad intent. It's so easy to look at -- I mean, Westboro is such an easy example. They've got these neon signs. It was so clearly obvious to everyone that we were hateful and evil and awful people.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

MEGAN: But underneath it was well-intentioned people trying to do what they believed was right. So it's really easy to look at the surface and assume the worst of people, assume you understand where they're coming from. But that almost immediately cuts you off from really understanding what they're about.

GLENN: It's one of the reasons why -- I've tried to cut the word evil out of my lexicon because we use that to -- too often. And we use it about people. And I really think most people have great intent. You know, Donald Trump, Barack Obama, you can disagree with either one of them, but neither one of them think they're doing evil. They think they're doing the right thing. You just don't see it that way.

MEGAN: Exactly. I think very few -- maybe sociopaths or psychopaths. And even then --

GLENN: Right.

MEGAN: People who are deliberately doing wrong, I think they're very, very, very few and far between.

GLENN: Yes. Right. And that doesn't mean you have to go along with it, but if you say to them or their followers, you know, your guy is evil, they stop listening to you.

MEGAN: Right. Exactly. And you stop asking questions to get to the bottom of it, which is the second point. Asking questions helps you bridge the gap between your point of view and theirs. It helps you understand where they're coming from actually. And it also signals to the people that you're talking to, that you're actually listening to them.

And that is a huge benefit to the dialogue because they -- they no longer -- they don't want to yell at you. They see that you want to understand. So they're much more willing to engage. So the second point is ask questions.

GLENN: And it matters that they're honest questions, not setup questions. Not a question where I know you're going to say one thing so I can give you the Scripture quote or whatever to beat you.

MEGAN: Exactly.

GLENN: It has to be a question that's not designed for me to win. We're going to take a quick break. Come back with the last two with Megan Phelps-Roper, when we come back.

(OUT AT 10:32AM)

GLENN: Megan Phelps-Roper, somebody that we saw on TED talk, giving a great TED talk on how to bring people together. She was in the -- she's a Phelps. So she's part of the founding family of the Westboro Baptist Church. And she got online and started making friends with people who were friendly to her, not just yelling at her all the time. And she said there are four things that if you really want to change people's minds, four ways of engaging people so that real conversations can take place. The first one is don't assume bad intent. Instead, assume good or neutral intent. The second, ask questions, as opposed to accusing. Ask honest questions. It will help people let them know they've been heard. And quite often, this is all that people want.

The third is stay calm. Welcome back to the program, Megan. Explain stay calm.

MEGAN: So this one is really difficult because the natural inclination is always to respond the way that somebody is -- is speaking to you. So when somebody comes at you with hostility, the instinct is to be defensive and to respond with hostility. But that just brings the conversation to an end quickly. But if you can learn to step back, calm down and -- and try to diffuse the anger -- and you can do it in a few ways.

So, for instance, I actually ended up marrying -- my husband was one of these Twitter friends who started out as this angry, sort of insulting --


MEGAN: We just got married seven months ago.

GLENN: Congratulations.

MEGAN: Thank you. So what he would do, for instance, he would tell a joke or recommend a book or start talking about music. He would sort of turn away from the hostility for a minute and then come back to it -- come back to it later.

You don't necessarily -- I mean, that's -- that can be a last resort. A lot of times just staying calm and speaking as if you were addressing a friend and not somebody that you hate and that you despise that you can't -- you can't stand to hear their words. It helps so much to keep the conversation going.

GLENN: Step four.

MEGAN: Step four is make the argument.

And this one -- this one seems obvious. But there's this argument that seems to have taken hold on both the left and the right. And I think it stems from the hopelessness you mentioned earlier. Oh, they're just too far gone. They can't be reasoned with. But where does that lead us?

It leaves us at loggerheads. Deadlocked. And no one wants to be there. So you make the argument because they don't understand -- your opponent doesn't necessarily understand your thinking and the way that you're approaching the problem. And by making the argument -- if you fail to do that, you're definitely not going to change someone's mind. You actually have to articulate the reasoning and the thought process behind your position.

And there's actually a fifth point that I would have included if I had enough time -- should I tell you now?

GLENN: Yeah, go ahead.

STU: We're breaking news here. The fifth point in Megan Phelps' TED talk.

GLENN: Go ahead.


MEGAN: It's take heart. Changing hearts and minds is incremental work, and it takes patience and persistence. And you're not going to see results necessarily immediately, not right away, but we can't give up. You know, and you might not be the person to persuade somebody else to turn away from a bad position, but every interaction is an opportunity to help turn the tide. So stay the course, trust the process, and take heart.

GLENN: How many people -- how many people were like this to you?

MEGAN: Well, the ones who had the biggest impact -- I mean, a handful who were engaging me continually over the course of a couple of years, considering I had been in the church. I had been raised in this. And I was 24 when I got on Twitter. So I was, again, marinating in this ideology and this way of thinking. So the fact that it only took a couple of years to really affect me and how I saw things, I think that's pretty remarkable.

GLENN: So did your husband -- was there a time when your husband -- is now your husband --

MEGAN: Yeah.

GLENN: Was he falling in love with you at the time? Did that happen later? Did he say, I can't believe I'm saying this to you -- I mean, how did that happen?

MEGAN: Well, it's a -- it's a really strange -- it was a really strange dynamic because obviously I was at the church. And at Westboro, you could only marry somebody who was in the church. So we were having these discussions, and there was nothing -- it was like a Jane Austen novel, like nothing overt. Like we couldn't say how we were feeling to each other because it just wasn't acceptable. And he sensed that.

And -- but he also, again, saw that I was a human being. And he came to believe that I had a good heart.

GLENN: So would this have worked -- would this have worked without love?

MEGAN: Well, I think -- well, so here's the thing. I -- yes, I believe so. And the reason is that the very first interaction was with a friend. I mentioned him in the talk too. Jewlicious. His name is David Abitbol.

And so it was -- I think I was talking with him for a little over a year. And, again, he's asking these questions. And in the course of asking these questions, he was the one who found the first -- the first bit of internal inconsistency in Westboro's doctrines. And when I look back at how I responded to that -- so my husband -- I didn't actually start speaking to him until months after that. But when I think about how I responded to that first bit of internal inconsistency, that was when I first started to challenge, in my own mind, Westboro's doctrines.

GLENN: And you didn't let him know that.

MEGAN: No. For sure. As soon as he had made that point, I was actually terrified to speak to him again. I didn't even let on that I recognized that he was right. I just stopped speaking to him.

GLENN: Wow. What was the point, if you don't mind me asking?

MEGAN: Oh, yeah, no, not at all.

It was a sign that said "death penalty for fags."

GLENN: Oh, my gosh.

MEGAN: Yeah. So, of course -- we used, you know, the verses in Leviticus and also in Romans 1 that talk about how, you know, gays are worthy of death. And he brought up -- so he's Jewish. I was really surprised that he brought up Jesus, saying, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

And I didn't -- I just had never connected that that was talking about the death penalty. And we thought, we're not -- we're not casting stones. We're just preaching words.

And David said, "Yeah, but you're advocating that the government cast stones."

And so that -- when I brought that point to other members of the church, the response was just to double down. They never addressed the passage that -- you know, that contradicted us. They just reiterated the passages that supported us. And so that was the first time that -- and the way that I reconciled it in my own mind was I just stopped holding the sign because I didn't know how to defend it anymore. And I didn't believe in it.

GLENN: Did they tell you to stop talking to these people?

MEGAN: I don't think -- I don't think people quite realized how much -- I mean, they knew I was very active on Twitter, but I don't think they realized how much it was affecting the way that I was thinking. I honestly didn't -- didn't understand it either.

Because in my mind -- I think I was in denial about it because -- you are not supposed to be impacted by other people. You are not supposed to be anything, but preaching to them. You're not supposed to really, you know, care -- I was going to say care about them. It was a very strange dynamic. But I was in denial about it. And I think that definitely helped it seem to others as if it wasn't really having an impact on me also.

PAT: Is anybody in your family speaking with you? Do you have a relationship with anybody anymore in the family?

MEGAN: Not anybody in the church, no. But there has been over the last decade or so, about 20 or so people who have either left or have been kicked out of Westboro. And my brother actually, the morning of my high school graduation -- he's a year and a half older than me. We woke up and went downstairs, and all of his stuff was gone. And so I have -- I didn't get to speak with him for the eight and half years between when he left and when I left. But now we're really good friends. And he's wonderful.

PAT: What was he thrown out for?

MEGAN: No, he left actually.

PAT: Oh, he left on his own.

MEGAN: He left at 19. Yeah, he also had Scriptural objections to some things. And also the extreme -- he objected to the extreme level of control because everybody in the church -- we all lived within two blocks or so of one another and did everything together and were obviously not developing relationships with people outside. But the level of control is -- is really -- really, really extreme.

GLENN: Do they -- do you think this will just die out as the family dies out, or?

MEGAN: Actually, I thought about this. My sister and I would talk about this about how could the church end in a way that just wouldn't destroy everybody on the inside?

There's still about the same level of membership as there has been. Because a few people -- a few new converts have joined. And then, of course, my generation has now -- they're having kids. But there's not many.

GLENN: What kind of people would join -- what kind of people join this? They really believe -- the newcomers that come in --

STU: It's one thing to be raised in it, but to be converted as an adult.

GLENN: Decent people. Yeah.

MEGAN: So honestly, I've speculated about this too. So, for instance, my dad -- my dad joined the church long before the picketing started. He was only 16 at the time. And, you know, his family wasn't -- I mean, his mom had been divorced. I don't think he -- he was attracted to the love and unity and connection I think in my family. In the Phelps family, I think. And I think that's a draw for some people. And it really lends credence to the idea that they're doing what they're doing out of love, out of good intentions.

And, again, some people just, I think are drawn to that defense of the idea of having all the answers and knowing for sure what you believe and how you're supposed to live. Like, it's -- that was such a powerful thing. When I left and realized like, I don't -- I don't have that anymore. I don't have that sense of -- it's a very comforting sense of certainty. And, you know, nuance and questions and uncertainty are a lot more difficult to deal with. I think some people are attracted to that part of the church.

GLENN: Next time they're out protesting, what should people do?

MEGAN: I think engaging at protests is actually not a very effective thing because they're -- on picket lines, they're already in these attack/defend mindsets. I think the internet is a much -- you know, Twitter. There's a lot of them on Twitter now. I think that's a more effective way of engaging. But if you -- if you do see them and if you are moved to go and speak to them, just remember that -- that responding with, you know, yelling and name-calling, all those things, it just reinforces what they already believe. It's adding to, you know, their certainty that they're doing the right thing.

GLENN: It is really -- it's really great to talk to you. Megan Phelps-Roper. You can find her @MeganPhelps. That's her Twitter handle. @MeganPhelps.

Really great to talk to you. And thank you for sharing this. And I think you have an important voice that needs to be heard.

STU: And I will say, Megan, will you confirm this, because we got the fifth point out of you, we are 25 percent better than your TED talk.

MEGAN: Yeah, for sure.

GLENN: Megan, can we pay you an off-handed compliment. Stu wanted to say this, we said it during the break. And it's weird because it's exactly what we're talking about. We don't know each other. We don't talk to each other.

We look at people in the Westboro Baptist Church and think that their kids just must be dumb as a box of rocks. And just, oatmeal! Every answer is, oatmeal! (chuckling) And you're so articulate. I mean, it's amazing just to have that view shattered.

MEGAN: Thank you.

I will say -- I mean, another thing that's not so well-known about the church, education was really important in my family. Most of the people there -- many lawyers, people who work in health care, and IT. And they're very well educated.

PAT: Wow.


MEGAN: Which is partly I think what makes it so much more difficult for them to see outside of it. This is like a psychological thing where, by -- by having these very strong mostly internally consistent arguments, they -- they think they're so certain that they don't even question the -- they don't even question it.

GLENN: Amazing.

MEGAN: But, yeah, anyway...

GLENN: Thank you so much. @MeganPhelps. Thank you so much, Megan. Appreciate it.

MEGAN: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

GLENN: You bet.


How Hunter Biden, gas stoves & a health clinic ALL CONNECT

America is facing dark times, and some recent news stories show we’re even facing EVIL. In this clip, Glenn describes 4 recent news stories that you should be aware of: The weaponization of the DOJ, FBI, and CIA (and how it relates to Joe Biden’s documents scandal), a recent confession by Hunter Biden, an outright lie from Democrats about the alleged gas stove ban, and a SHOCKING, upcoming health clinic. So, how do these stories all relate? Glenn explains it all…


Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: let me show you a couple of things, that should very well concern you.

The first story comes from the Blaze. Carefully worded statement reveals FBI seized more documents from Biden property. This time, his vacation home.

Okay? This happened yesterday. They searched for about three and a half hours. FBI agents say, they discovered no classified documents. But they did seize material from Biden's tenure as vice president.

So they did this, they took stuff from his house. Why? This is a sitting president. Why?

We know the DOJ is in Biden's pocket.

We know that the administration has weaponized the FBI for the left.

But is that the president, or is that Deep State that has done this?

This is extraordinarily disturbing. That they're going into a sitting president's house, and doing this.

And we don't really know, what's going on. We haven't even had a discussion. We just accept it.

What will that mean, for the next president.

And the president after that.

Hunter Biden also, yesterday, admitted the laptop is his.

And that he left it, and that's his laptop.

This is some sort of twisted strategy, to now go after all those who reported on the laptop. Because they didn't have a right to that information.

But now. After how many years, of all of us knowing, including those in -- in the press. Everyone knowing that that laptop is real.

Now he finally comes out and says it's real. Will anyone in the press, care? Or will they follow the next bouncing ball and go after all those who talked about it?

Remember, the FBI and the CIA, and NSA, they have loaded themselves in, to all of the big tech companies. They are everywhere in big tech.

Why? Why is that happening?

What is -- what is the government and big tech doing?

Are they protecting you, or are they protecting people like -- oh, I don't know. Hunter Biden. Or Kathy Hochul.

Kind of a theme that you need to have, always with you now, is I know who has lied to me, over and over again.

I know who has lied to me. Do you know who has told you the truth, or tried to tell you the truth, to the best of their ability?

Who is making corrections in the errors of their way. That is crucial. Bill Maher is doing this.

Bill Maher is making corrections in the errors of his way.

He's like, you know what, I didn't see this. I didn't believe this. This has got to stop. Who is doing that? And who is just doubling down on their lost credibility.

The media told us, two weeks ago, that nobody is coming after your gas stove.

You remember that clearly?

We told you, that this is something that had to do with the E and the ESG. We showed you that it was an environmentalist paper and a research paper from that environmentalist group. That the department of -- what was it? It's not Labor that Trumka is in charge of.

I can't remember. But one of the departments he's the head of. He came out and he said, we're looking into the gas stove things. It can be really, really very dangerous. And then they said, no. That's not true. That's not happening.

Well, in governor Hochul's new budget, she has proposed several things that are nuts. But this is one of them.

Hochul's budget plan would ban the sale of gas stoves, and other fuel-powered heating equipment, by 2030.

And require that all new buildings be zero emission starting in 2028. Smaller buildings would be required to go green in 2025.

So now who is lying to you? Who is lying to you?

Is Katie Hochul just making this up?

Or has this been discussed for a long time, and she's just willing to do it, because she knows, I just got reelected. It's not going to be a problem here?

What you're dealing with, is absolute evil. Evil.

Now, let me give you direct evidence.

Stu, how would you feel, if you wanted to go to a doctor. And you knew the doctor was an atheist, but a really food doctor.

What would you do?

STU: I probably would just go to the doctor, and not care really what religion he was. That's kind of his situation.

GLENN: Kind of his situation, right. Right. Right.

As long as he's a really good doctor. Right.

STU: Right.

GLENN: Now, how would you feel if you found out, your doctor was a practicing Satanist? But he was the best doctor in that field.

STU: It's a -- it's a good question. Like, I don't necessarily -- you know, a huge swath of our audience will be offended by this.

I don't necessarily consider Satanism to actually be a religion.

So I would probably be pretty skeptical of their general judgment in that case.

GLENN: Would you go to them?

STU: I don't think so. No.

GLENN: Yeah. Okay. I wouldn't. There's no thought with me. Oh, you're a Satanist?

Really? They're not coming to you. Okay. No thanks. How would you feel if the hospital was a Satanist hospital?

STU: Yeah. I would pick a different hospital in that case.

GLENN: Pick a different hospital. There is a new health clinic in New Mexico, being opened by The Satanic Temple.

It is -- they're actually going to name the facility this.

The Samuel Alito's mother's Satanic Abortion Clinic. So they are now opening up an abortion clinic.

And they are providing free of charge, as part of The Satanic Temple's abortion ritual. You'll to pay for your medication and pharmacy. Typical cost is about 90 bucks. So you can get your abortion free, as part of a satanic ritual.

Now, they put those in quotation marks. Because they want you to know, well, we're just fooling around here. We're not really The Satanic Temple.

We're just trying to make a point. We're not really doing rituals with it. Really? Really?


STU: I think their goal seems to be to make a point there. And I guess own the conservatives. But man, if it doesn't track with exactly what I believe is true in this case.

You know, it's like, you seem to be making our point. The fact that the Satanists are adopting this process, as central to their being, is pretty telling. And honestly, I think it tracks perfectly.

GLENN: Right. And they are going to be receiving government benefits and privileges. Because it's a -- a religious organization.

But without a deity, they don't really believe in the Satan.

And what they're trying to do is open this up.

Now, they say, this is going to be -- doctors are going to be fine working there. And there will be good, qualified doctors.

I would question any doctor, that worked at the satanic abortion clinic.

You know. You know, everybody is like, oh, this doctor is a Catholic. And he won't perform abortions, at Our Lady of Weeping and open sores.

I can't see -- really? But you'll go to a Satanist.

And a Satanist. A doctor will go, I'm fine with the Satan thing, whatever.

I'm doing a good thing, and a good service. Boy, if this does not make you question absolutely everything, that you think you know, I don't know what does.


Why NOT destroying China’s spy balloon may be a BIG MISTAKE

A Chinese balloon was spotted over the northern United States earlier this week, with sightings most recently in Billings, Montana. China has since confirmed the suspected spy balloon is their’s, though stopped short of admitting it’s being used for surveillance (like many in the U.S. suspect). According to CNN, military officials advised President Joe Biden NOT to destroy the balloon, ‘due to fear the debris could pose a safety threat to people on the ground.’ But in this clip, Glenn explains why NOT destroying this 'spy balloon' could be a very BIG mistake…


Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Let me talk to you about the spy balloon. Stu, what do you know about the spy balloon?

STU: Well, apparently, the spy balloon, flying from a product of China. Flying from our western United States.

GLENN: Yeah. It's over Wyoming.

STU: Alaska. Wyoming now.

GLENN: Yeah. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

STU: I did have a question of, when we have satellites and TikTok, why would we need a balloon? I don't know.

GLENN: It does seem to be a little old-timey, you know.

And at first when I heard that, I thought, they're down to hot air balloons. That's good. You know, that's good. But it's not good.

And here's why: And I'm not hearing anybody talk about this. First of all, the -- the balloon's current path, it carries -- it carries this balloon over a number of sensitive military sites. And they also say -- the United States says, they don't want to shoot it out of the sky because of falling debris. Really?

We don't have anything that would just obliterate that thing in the sky. Really? So, anyway, it was over Canada. And then it flies into the United States. And it's flying over sensitive military nuclear sites.

And the Chinese foreign ministry said, you know, relax, America.

Now, I don't know about you, but I'm -- China should be happy that we don't have a female for president. Because females don't really like it when males say, okay. Sweetheart, relax.

And I think that's kind of what China just said to us, in a very condescending tone. Oh, please, relax. It's just a spy balloon. What are we going to get?

Well, here's the one thing that -- one thing that I -- that I wanted to check, when I saw this.

The -- the balloon, they think, is in an altitude between 80, and 120,000 feet. Now, I'm not saying, that this is what it is.

But I am saying, if we don't shoot it down, and make sure that our own airspace remains sacred, we're out of our minds. Can you imagine Russia. If we had a spy balloon, ask we told Russia or China, ah, relax.

The balloon is at an altitude, they believe between 80 and 120,000 feet. The minimum altitude for an airborne EMP is 94 or 95,000 feet. So that's right in that range. I just want to throw that out there.

I don't think it's an EMP. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's not an EMP. However, if they can fly things over our country. And we do nothing about it.

And they're flying them over our nuclear sites. I think that's a problem.

I don't know about anybody else.

But I'm not really relaxed about it. How about you? Hmm?

STU: Sounds like a big problem. And, you know, certainly, I think, they will learn, that they can do this, if they want to do it. Right?

GLENN: Yeah. Absolutely.

STU: Take a lesson from this.

GLENN: That's the intelligence that they're gathering.

I really believe, they are gathering the intelligence of, will America even respond?

I don't think they will. No. Of course, they will. No. I don't think they will.

Let's fly it over. Fly it into US airspace. And fly it spew their really sensitive military sites. And see if they say a word. No!

That's the intelligence they're gathering.

STU: That's all we do, though. Is we say the word. They're talking about how they're going to make a very uncomfortable meeting, I guess when I guess Blinken meets with them.

GLENN: Oh, very uncomfortable.

We might send them a sternly worded letter. Why not blow it out of the sky? Sincerely. Why not blow it out of the sky.

Just saying.

If it's a balloon, I'm not so worried about shrapnel coming down. Are you?

STU: Well, looking it though, the pictures that are seemingly of this balloon. It doesn't look like a balloon. Like you would think of a balloon.

It looks like there's a decent amount of equipment on it. How would you describe this picture? It looks almost like a satellite.

GLENN: Almost like Sputnik.
Yeah. So it looks kind of like a satellite. I wonder what equipment might be on it. And honestly, there is nothing that a balloon can gather, that I'm aware of. And I talked to some expert about this. There's nothing I'm aware of, that they can't gather very satellite. They can watch us via satellite, they have that technology. So why launch a balloon?

The only answer I and others can come up, that I've talked to. Is they're just testing, whether or not they can invade our airspace. And we do anything. Now, why would they want to know that? This is not good. It's not good.

GLENN: Just saying. Leave it at that.

STU: Your summary of it, do we get a headline out of it? Is that a clickbait-y headline that we can get?

GLENN: Yeah. China flying mysterious balloons with equipment on it, over sensitive US air -- US sites. Suboptimal.

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: Suboptimal. I'm just saying.

STU: Suboptimal.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah.

STU: Emphasis on the sub.

GLENN: Yeah. Which they can launch a lot of things.

Anyway, there is a new poll out, and it's a record-setting poll. And I think this is exciting. Only about a third. 36 percent of Americans, say they are satisfied now, with a set of policy issues spanning all aspects of government.

Among the lowest rated issues was the state of the economy. Which our president said, is fixed right? I mean, it's booming.

STU: It's strong as hell, Glenn.

GLENN: Strong as hell. No joke, people. I'm not joking. I'm telling you the truth. I'm shooting straight.

It's strong as hell. A quarter of Americans say, yeah. I'm satisfied with it.

It had the largest year over year decline, dropping eight percentage points.

Satisfaction with gun laws, also dropped sharply this year, to a record low of 34 percent.

Now, this one, I would like you to look into, Stu. I would like you to know. Is that like, yeah. Our gun laws aren't strong enough.

You know, we have to be more like California. Which, well, don't think about the stats on that one, too much.

Because we already have the toughest gun laws in California. But that's because of other states, that we're having all these problems.

Uh-huh. So the satisfaction of gun laws dropped sharply to a record low. Policies on abortion. Efforts to control crime.

Quality of public education. And efforts to combat poverty and homelessness, also remain at near all-time low points.

So we're not in a good mood. Now, they say, there are things we can build on.

Sure, there's a rise of polarization. And a decline in national harmony.

You know, we've always had a baseline, where, you know, people were generally content with America.

And now, people are not. I wonder what could have changed that.

So the perception of overall quality of life in the US has dropped to a record low this year.

As did perceptions of wealth inequality. Less than a quarter of adults now say that they are satisfied the way income and wealth is distributed in the US.

Less than a quarter of adults. So does that mean only a quarter of us believe in the free market?

STU: Is it that high?

GLENN: Is it that high?

STU: I mean, think about that, you are constantly beaten over the head, with how much this country sucks. How terrible it's been. How everything it does is wrong. How every police officer is out to kill minorities. I mean, it's on and on and on.

How every rich person is trying to kill poor people for profit. Every company is out to get you.

You think about how that has to wash over a population over multiple decades, and what other ending can you come to?

Only if people are hard-core their principles.

GLENN: Yeah, they know that. They hard-core know that. And just when you think that things are horrible, the groundhog dies, on Groundhog Day.

It's suboptimal. I'm going to leave it at that.


Amazon’s DEEP government partnerships could RUIN YOUR LIFE

Amy Sterner Nelson has experienced firsthand just how dangerous Amazon truly can be. She joined Glenn during his ‘Targets of Tyranny’ special last year to detail how the tech giant used civil asset forfeiture in an attempt to pressure Amy’s husband, Carl, to admit to felony accusations that he did not commit. But, since sharing her story with Glenn’s audience, Amazon’s dark practices seemingly have only gotten worse. She joins Glenn in-studio to detail the latest developments, explaining just how deep Amazon’s partnerships with our federal government run. But it’s not just Amazon, Amy explains. It’s ALL of Big Tech, and their partnerships, their corruption, and their scare tactics are something we should ALL be terrified of.


Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: The founder of the Riveter. She is -- she is really -- I feel stupid sitting in the same room with her. She's a graduate of Emery University.

NYU, School of Law, practice corporate litigation with a focus on high profile First Amendment matters for over a decade in New York and then in Seattle.

Mother of four. Contributor for Ink. The host of iHeart Radio's What's Her Story, with Sam and Amy.

She's raised $30 million in venture capital to grow the Riveter.

She's also been published in the Washington Post, Newsweek, Seattle Times, and she's been all over the world speaking. Fortune's most powerful women. I mean, jeez.

Overachieve much, Amy?

AMY: No.

GLENN: So, Amy, you were on with us -- by the way, welcome. Glad you're here.

AMY: Thank you. Thank you.

GLENN: And you're sitting up, taking nourishment. That's always good. You came in here for the targets of tyranny special. And we had been in correspondence for a while. Because of what happened to you and your husband in Seattle with Amazon. And the feds.

Can you quickly just recap that for anybody who doesn't remember?

AMY: Yeah. So my husband worked for Amazon web services for nearly eight years. If you don't know, AWS is a subsidiary of Amazon.

Where the internet lives, cloud computing lives, and these big data warehouses across the world.

My husband worked in real estate, helped scouting locations that would be good to build data centers and projects along those lines.

He left Amazon in 2019. On April 2nd, 2020, the FBI knocked on our door.

We learned then that my husband was being accused. At the time, we didn't know by who.

Of a crime called private sector honest services fraud, which is depriving your private employer of your honest services. At the time, the FBI did not ask my husband what happened. It was clearly an accusation. And two months later, the government used forfeiture, to seize all of our family's bank accounts.

GLENN: Your bank accounts. Your husband's, your joint. Everything.

AMY: I mean, to the point, Glenn. The DOJ went into our law firm's client trust account. And seized all the money that we had paid our lawyers.

GLENN: Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

AMY: And my husband at that point was never charged with a crime. In fact, he was never charged with a crime. Civil forfeiture is something the government did use. It's a tool. And they can seize your money, your home, your safe deposit box.

GLENN: They can squeeze you in every way they possibly can.

And many times, you don't get the money back.

AMY: We really don't. And we were kind of told. Don't expect to get the money back, no matter what.

GLENN: That's craziness.

That's King George. Declaration of Independence-style stuff.

AMY: And the thing is, it's a tool. It's a pressure tool. So my husband had been accused of April 2nd, 2020.

And the prosecutors wanted to plead guilty to a crime. It was all very specific and unclear. The crazy thing is, that largely what my husband was being accused of, depriving Amazon of his honest services, related to actions my husband took after he didn't work at Amazon. But, anyway, we did fight.

And, you know, we -- we had four little girls.

We sold our home. We sold our car. We liquidated our retirement. We borrowed money from family and friends to pay lawyers and to survive.

GLENN: And didn't they go into your family's accounts too? Your dad or something?

AMY: Oh, my gosh. Yeah, so my father was critically ill. He almost died. He also got a life-saving kidney transplant in April of 2020.

And two weeks later, the FBI emptied out his bank accounts. My husband and I had paid for his medical care.

GLENN: Unbelievable.

AMY: So he would have died, if my mother wouldn't have helped him pay his medical bills.

GLENN: So many times, people see this and go, yeah. But there had to be something.

You -- you told the story of what that something is. And it revolved around a very expensive lawsuit from Amazon.

AMY: Yeah. So to preface this, we had no idea what was going on. And the day the FBI showed up at my house, my husband hired criminal defense attorneys and said, please call Amazon, and tell them, I will come in and talk to them. I don't understand what is going on. But I have nothing to hide.

And Amazon's lawyers said, we will only speak to him if he's pleading guilty to a felony. And at the time, we were going, what was going on?

Amazon's lawyers squarely put the DOJ between the company and my husband.

Very few companies have that kind of access to DOJ, and for an institution that's meant to be apolitical, that's wrong. It's just wrong. But what we learned over the course of years, and spending a lot of lawyer money is that, in February of 2020, Amazon broke a contract with a real estate developer. And by the explicit terms of that contract, unless they could improve the developer committed a felony crime, they were going to owe him over $100 million in damages.

The next day after they broke the contract, they had the first meeting with the Department of Justice. They meant with the Department of Justice over 100 times trying to lobby for criminal charges.

The government spent countless FBI hours and prosecutor's hours. Essentially doing Amazon's bidding. And what we do know, is despite all the things that Amazon told the government. They never told the government, that they broke a contract and needed a felony. Or they would be liable for hundreds of millions of dollars in damages.

GLENN: So you decided to fight this.

AMY: Yes.

GLENN: You guys are fighters. You decided to fight. It has cost you a great deal. Your husband, nor you, nor anybody else has ever been charged. You thought this was kind of wrapping up.

And then you came on the special. And I think I may have said, are you sure you want to come on?

And I know I said, I hope nothing happens because of this.

The day after. Coincidence?

AMY: I don't really believe in coincidences anymore. But the day after, the Department of Justice subpoenaed Amazon for all the documents that Amazon had, that had been produced in the civil litigation. Because after Amazon failed to get criminal charges, they sued my husband.

And I'll note something about that, that I think Amazon didn't anticipate. But usually, when you're accused of a crime, you never get to see the communications, between your accuser and the Department of Justice.

And in this civil case, because Amazon sued my husband, my husband was able to see all those communications. And they're very shocking.

And I mean, to me, as a lawyer, I was floored. By the things that had been made public, that I had been able to see.


What was seen?

ADAM: Amazon hired a former federal prosecutor from the Eastern District of Virginia. They paid him millions of dollars to lobby his former colleagues, for criminal charges.

The former -- the current prosecutors of Virginia, immediately ushered in Amazon for a meeting.

They set up a meeting with the prosecutor's press office.

Because this was clearly going to be such a sexy and scandalous case.

They never checked anything Amazon said.

They never asked to see my husband's terms of employment or his non-compete. Like, they just didn't ask to see it.

Amazon said they had paid this real estate developer, $16 million.

Amazon had paid the real estate developer $0.

So nobody ever checked anything. They just went for it.

GLENN: Because it was really, literally, an old boy's network.

I know you, you know me. This is a problem.

AMY: I mean, we have an email that's now in the public docket in Virginia, where Patrick Stokes, Amazon's lawyer, asked his former colleague, Jessica Aber, who is now the US attorney for the eastern district of Virginia, who just sued Amazon's main rival, Google. And Pat (inaudible) said to Jess Aber, we want to talk to you about civil asset forfeiture.

Prosecutors in the eastern district of Virginia have not used civil asset forfeiture, outside of a drug case, in 30 years, that I can find.

GLENN: So this is now building looked at again for the second time?

AMY: You know, I really think that Amazon keeps pushing DOJ to try to do something. And DOJ isn't doing anything, except kind of -- the investigation just kind of hangs out there. Because it was a threat, right?

Unless Amazon can get a felony conviction as a real estate developer, they are going to be liable for damages.

GLENN: All right. So the reason -- and we talked about this. You mentioned this. But I have been seeing more and more stories. About people from the DOJ, going to work, right directly to the Pentagon.

And people from the intelligence agencies.

This is terrifying, because there is a public had she private partnership, that you should be very aware of.

Our DOJ, our national security agencies, all of them are using Amazon. Amazon, as their cloud bank.

When you have that, you have control of the government, or the government has control of you.

At best -- at best, if one doesn't have something over the head of the other, they're partners in everything.

That is extraordinarily dangerous.

AMY: It's incredibly dangerous. I mean, and the thing that kind of blows my mind is that no one is really even paying attention to it.

I mean, on Amazon's board, they have the former head of the NSA, Keith Alexander. That's not a person with business experience, that should be on the board of a business company.

I mean, why else would he be there, other than to get contracts with the NSA?

And sure enough, in 2021, the NSA quietly awarded Amazon web services, a 10 billion-dollar contract.

Like, it's something that we should all be very frightened of. It's happening across big tech.

It's happening -- you've read the Twitter files.

You see it everywhere. And Amazon is hiring hundreds, hundreds of CIA, FBI, former federal prosecutors.

GLENN: And what -- just having those guys in a high-tech company that has the information on each of us with be that Amazon does, that's not good. There's no wall between that company and the government.

TAYLOR: Absolutely not. There's no wall at all. And you look at things. Amazon is now getting into Pharma. Right?

Amazon just launched a five dollar subscription to get your pills. Now you're going to give all your health data to Amazon. It's terrifying.

And Jeff Bezos is an oligarch. Right?

If you looked at the indictment of the FBI agent, Charles McGonigal, it described an oligarch, Dara Paska (phonetic), as a man of vast wealth with close ties to the government. That is exactly what Jeff Bezos is.

GLENN: So what's next in this?

Have you written off ever getting your money back?

AMY: So we actually got our money back. So we pulled off what people thought would be impossible.

GLENN: Wow. You should do a podcast just on how to do that. I know lots of people who just driving through town, they had cash, the sheriff pulls them over. The cop pulls them over.

That's ours. I mean, you never get it back. How did that happen?

AMY: So the government -- it's such a strange process. It goes back to the time of pirates.

But when the government seizes your money, and they don't charge you with a crime. They then have to sue your asset. So they sue your bank account. It's like US versus $4,000 at Wells Fargo.

And they do that, because your assets don't have due process. So they can just avoid all due process.

So the government here, sued our bank accounts, went to the court, paused the case for six months.

Went to the court again. Asked to pause it for six months.

Judge said you only get four months this time. They wanted a deposit again, and it wasn't going to happen. So it was time to litigate, and it was time for the government to prove their case against the bank accounts.

And instead of opting to prove their case, the government gave us the money back.

GLENN: Unbelievable.

STU: How long was that from beginning to end, when you lost the money to when you finally received it again?

AMY: It was 22 months.

GLENN: You had nothing.

AMY: We had nothing.

We had to figure out how to feed our four daughters.

My mother, who was amazing. My mother who was a public school teacher, worked her whole life. And my mother kept asking, don't they care about your daughters? You have a baby.

And I said, mom. They don't care. She said, this is our government. And I said, they don't care. They care about Jeff Bezos and Amazon. They do not care that we have children to feed.

They did say, when they seized our money, that if my husband pled guilty to a crime, they would give some of it back.

It's such a transparent tool of corruption. It should be gone. It should be abolished.

GLENN: It's unbelievable.

STU: You mean that threat, where they can say, hey, just say you're guilty, and then we can make it all better.

Therefore, getting the guilty plea out of you. And it's really kind of your only option at that point.

GLENN: Yeah, and they held everything.

Including, if this goes on, and you arrest your husband, we will do it in front of your children.

AMY: My husband asked his lawyers -- his lawyers asked the prosecutors over and over again, who were saying in 2020, we're charging him. We're coming.

They never charged him. But they threatened you.

And my husband's lawyers asked the prosecutors. Can he turn himself in, if you're going to indict him? And the prosecutor said, no. We will arrest him in front of your home, in front of your kids.

GLENN: Isn't that crazy?

Knowing that that was a big fear of theirs.

STU: So wrong.

GLENN: This is so corrupt and so bad. Amy, thank you for telling the story.

We'll get some closing thoughts from you in just a second. It's Amy Nelson. And her website is or is it .com? Dot-co.

Okay. Let me tell you a little bit about Legacybox.

Part of my calling in life, I believe is to preserve American history. And to make sure that it is safe, and not destroyed. And doesn't fall apart.

We are in restoration on all kinds of things right now.

We just got. Did you know that there was another kind of so-called Zapruder film?

STU: No.

GLENN: It's just been released. And given to our museum. To -- to hold on.

I haven't even seen it yet. But we're holding on to it. One of the things I'll do with Legacybox. Is I'll hand deliver that to them. And say, can you please preserve this?

I mean, it's amazing. Some of the things that are going on. That's what I do, in my off hours.

Your job is to preserve your American history. The history of your family. What life was really like, back in the old days. And I mean the old days like the 1980s.

You have spent a lot of money and time and -- on videotapes and everything else. All that stuff is going away. All your photos are going away.

Get a Legacybox right now. And secure, safeguard all of those family stories.

Don't let your photos continue to fade. Become your family's hero. The one that rescues the story of your life.

Shop, you'll get an exclusive offer. And save a buttload of money right now. Do it now.

Ten-second station ID.
Amy Nelson is with us. Final thoughts or advice?
AMY: Well, as you know, Glenn, I've been a progressive my entire life. And one thing that has really surprised me in all this is that progressives see things in black and white.

The right side sees things in black and white. But really, this is about our rights, and we should all be fighting for the same rights, including due process. And so I just hope that the Department of Justice could try to be more fair and transparent.

GLENN: Is it over? It's not.

AMY: It not over. But it will be some day. That's what my husband says. It can't last forever.

GLENN: That's just crazy. Do you still consider yourself a progressive?

AMY: I consider myself politically homeless.

GLENN: I think a lot of people feel that way.

AMY: I think so too.

GLENN: And it's weird because if you're a classic liberal. You know, I call myself more of a Libertarian. But it's also classic liberal.

It's the same thing. I believe in the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights.

That's -- that's -- that's all that's important. The rest of it is nonsense.

AMY: It is. And there's so much ink spilled distracting us from those things.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. Nobody talks about those things.

Your story and stories like you, that should be everywhere. And that's something that Republicans and Democrats and independents should all be standing up and saying, this has got to stop. Because if they'll do it to you. They'll do it to anybody.

AMY: They truly will.

GLENN: Yeah. Thank you so much. My best to your family. How are your kids?

AMY: They're great. They're amazing. They're kids. They're resilient.

GLENN: Thank you so much. Appreciate it.


A HUGE cyber attack may be coming. Here’s how to PREPARE.

Global elites within the World Economic Forum recently predicted a ‘catastrophic’ cyber attack is imminent — and could occur within the next 2 years. These are the same ‘experts’ who hosted a panel to discuss pandemic preparedness….a YEAR before COVID-19 ever began. So maybe, just maybe, we should take this new ‘prediction’ seriously. In this clip, Glenn is joined by William Forstchen, author of ‘One Second After.’ His book series, which explores how a giant EMP (electromagnetic pulse) attack would send America ‘back into the Dark Ages,’ demonstrates just how vital electricity is to our society’s survival. Without it, he tells Glenn, hundreds of thousands would die within minutes. So, what can YOU do to prepare? In this clip, he gives Glenn the top three things you should have at home in case a catastrophic cyber event truly does occur…


Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: All right. We bring -- we bring back our -- of our guest from just a couple of days ago. William Fortune, who wrote One Second After.

He's also a Montry HEP College Factory fellow, and we wanted to talk to him about -- well, William, have you read the World Economic Forum's warning?

WILLIAM: No, I have not.

GLENN: Okay. So they're saying that a major cyber attack is coming. And they're focused mainly on the financial sector.

They think that's where it's going to come. Which, any thoughts on that, quickly, before we move on?

WILLIAM: No. A girlfriend and I were playing Jenga. You know the thing that we were stacking blocks? It's a good analogy.

Imagine our infrastructure is like a Jenga tower. And he went back is balanced on one block at the bottom. If that one block goes out, the entire tower collapses.

GLENN: And that one block --

WILLIAM: That one block is electricity. That one block is electronics, and are all internet systems. But actually all the way down to just electricity.

You kill that, you kill the entire tower.

GLENN: So let's say that we were in war with Russia.


GLENN: Would they have any qualms of shutting our electricity off? Would they just go after one sector, or would they have any qualms of going after electricity?

WILLIAM: Oh, it's a multi-fascinated attack. But electricity is the fundamental block upon which everything is predicated upon. Your computers. Your telecommunications. Space programs. Everything comes down to electricity. Now, it would be a multi fascinated attack. Which that would be one component thereof.

GLENN: Why would someone go after the financial sector? As long as you had electricity, couldn't you reset that pretty quickly?

Go ahead.

WILLIAM: I know at some point we're going to be talking about what we can do as individuals. So let's take it as an individual.


WILLIAM: All right. You move to finances. Suddenly, your credit cards don't work. Your bank account doesn't work. Maybe everything you've saved for years, boom, it's offline, it disappears. What happens to us as individuals? And then extrapolate that out to your community.

All the way up to the nations. You disrupt the financial system.

Basically, put in common parlance. We're screwed.

GLENN: And wouldn't day before wouldn't a central bank digital currency make things worse, because you wouldn't have -- any currency at all.

WILLIAM: There's another part of our problem with AI and everything else. We're actually setting up the system, whereby, we become more and more vulnerable every day.

100 years ago, you know, back when, you know, Roosevelt and everything else. Yeah. Systems collapse. But if you had money under the mattress, you could still get by.

Well, that money in and of itself, is useless. Who will trust it?

Remember Sandy in 2012, of people lined up around the block in New York City, waving 100-dollar bills just to get hamburgers out of McDonald's?

And the guy at McDonald's is saying, hey, folks. I can't even deal with that. I have no banking system left. I don't want your money. It's worthless. That's the scary thing.

Our money becomes worthless.

GLENN: Now, I wanted to talk to you, and we had you on a couple of days ago.

And just for anybody who missed this. Just recap a bit.

How easy it is to take down our -- our power grid.

And the attempts that have already been made, and it's my understanding, if we take out nine or ten substations, you can lose the entire grid in America.

Not for a short period of time. It's not like putting a new telephone up pole up. It's for months.

WILLIAM: Well, remember the great power failures in New York, in the '70s and '80s? And the one case, it all traced back to one relay switch that short-circuited out.

That then caused the next relay switch to shut down. That started causing entire systems to go offline to try and protect themselves.

Or look at Texas.

I mean, yo went through it two years ago.

When the system started to go, it cascaded across the entire state, within a matter of minutes. It's all automatically set up.

It happens faster than any human could ever deal with. It's just boom, boom, boom. Of different electronic components. Some would say, oh, the guy next to me isn't working right. I have to shut down.

GLENN: Right. But isn't that to protect the entire system?

WILLIAM: How do you bring it back up? In Texas, you had a full meltdown, how do you bring it back up?

GLENN: How do you mean that? I'm sorry for asking such simple questions here.

But I know this just happened in Pakistan. They were doing it for some global warming thing.

And they decided to take the entire system down, for a couple of hours every night.

They turn it off. And they couldn't turn it back on. I don't know if they still have power outages.

WILLIAM: Exactly. Again, we, as individuals. I'm sitting in my house right now.

Suddenly, boom, it went off.

How do we turn it back on? Go to my circuit box, which I can barely understand? You know, I'm just an ordinary guy in that respect. The systems become so interlocked. Even so complex, that it exceeds the human capability, to bring it back quickly. So it just automatically shuts down. And then how do you bring it back?

There's the key. How do you bring it back?

GLENN: And that's for a cyber attack. Which you told me a couple of days ago, a cyber attack can go in shooting one of those substations, which we're having happen now around the country.

Someone shooting at them, can bring them offline. But if it's coordinated, or even a cyber attack, it can destroy those substations. And China is the only one that makes all of that equipment.

And it -- to order it in a nonemergency way, it will take you over a year to get it.

WILLIAM: Okay. Our major transformers. I believe you and I talked about it a few years ago. Our major big substation. The largest substations, to replace a major component, can take two years.

Now, you would think, in a nation that realizes this. We would stockpile each component.

Now, certain things go offline. Put another one in.

No. We're just in time delivery type of mentality.

GLENN: Jeez.

WILLIAM: And as a result, we don't have stockpiles of crucial equipment to help bring us back online.

GLENN: Okay.

So this means -- give me the -- you know, the scenario that you wrote in one second after. Open things up. And, you know, I read these kinds of things. And reports and everything else.

You did such a good job at keeping. Bringing the story to -- to life, in a realistic way.

And then also, showing me things that I just -- I had never even thought about.

These things go offline. How long does it take. I think it's 72 hours, before things really go into chaos.

That was from a government study in the '60s, and it proved true with Katrina. Once people think there's no help coming, bad things really begin to happen.

How long before a lot of people dies? That same three -- three hours because of the lack of water? Or not three hours? Three days?

GLENN: Okay. If we want an EMP scenario, how many people are going to die in the next five minutes?

I'll ask another question: How many people you think will die from the first five minutes of an EMP?

GLENN: I would say none.

Because of the EMP?

Very few.

WILLIAM: A couple hundred thousand in the first five minutes.

GLENN: From what?

WILLIAM: Because there's over 2,000 commercial aircraft in the air right now. And a significant number of those, if they got hit by a major EMP, it shuts the computers down on the plane.

An EMP has solely, up front, piloting you into the Hudson River.

That plane is going to fall like a rock.
So a couple hundred thousand within minutes. Within the first three days, in a major situation. What happens to your nursing homes?

GLENN: Right. And your hospitals. Sure.


GLENN: Okay. So -- so that would happen if they just -- it doesn't have to be an EMP. If they knocked the power grid out, the planes would be okay.

But we just saw in LA, you know the LAX just went out of power, and it wasn't good.

WILLIAM: You know, just a couple of weeks ago, the entire command control system for the FAA shut down.

Suddenly, all the screens of all the air traffic controllers went blank.

Now, it was only for short-term. But it was chaos.

Thousands of flights had to be canceled. Planes in the air.

You're going to put them back down. Or look at 9/11. Where all planes were ordered immediately. And then didn't fly again for a day.

And that even was not a cyber situation.

So your key components for -- or let me give you another example.

Suppose all the traffic lights in Dallas, suddenly shut down simultaneously.

How many people will be hurt in the first five minutes?

Quite a few.

GLENN: A lot. Yeah.

WILLIAM: So we don't realize we're like that Jenga tower. We're just one little block. Then the blocks above it, start to fall away. Then the entire tower starts to collapse.

That's America at this moment.

GLENN: I have to tell you, you just said you and your girlfriend were just talking about this last night, about Jenga. And I would like to just offer my wife's services for counseling. Because this is the kind of stuff that -- and my wife is like, can we not talk about that tonight?

Anyway, we're -- we're -- we're talking about -- weaver talking about catastrophic failure, something the EF -- the WEF has predicted is coming in the next 24 months.

And what can you do about it?

And we are -- we are talking to William Fortune. He's the author of one second after.

And he's also with themontry college faculty. He's a fellow there. We'll continue our conversation. But move it to, okay.

If you believe these things are happening or possible, what should you do?

We'll do that in 60 seconds.

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Tomorrow night, we are doing our Wednesday night special. But Glenn, it's Friday. I know, we couldn't do it this week. Because no one can get into the studios this Friday. The Wednesday night special will be (?) at 5:00 p.m.

It is called the COVID blueprint. The next crisis globalists will use to control you.

We have a gentle man who I really respect. Has a new book (?) coming out in August, called Five Years After. He is one of the leading voices on EMP. And cyber security for our grids.

And we welcome him back. Dr. William force chin. (?)

WILLIAM: I'll start (?) the ice storm you had a few days ago.

It pretty well shut all of Dallas down. A simple ice storm.

So imagine a major cyborg attack.

What happens in the city of Dallas insofar practice suddenly, nothing is working correctly. (?)

GLENN: I would say, in short order chaos.


GLENN: Real chaos. Within three days.

By tomorrow, maybe even today, it would have been chaos.

WILLIAM: Exactly. And there's another factor, that we are used to a society -- we are so used to a society, functioning correctly. That it about their background noise in our life.

I switch it on in the morning. I take a shower. I cook my eggs for breakfast. My girlfriend and I go out to dinner at a nice restaurant. These are all things that become simple, background noise. Pull one of the blocks out, things start failing. And we're mystified. In fact, we can -- we very quickly will become frightened by what is happening.

GLENN: So there was a book out. I don't know if you ever read it. Tragedy and hope.

And it was written in the 1960s.

And it was written by one of the advisers for Eisenhower.

And all of the presidents, I think going back to Truman.

And he talked about a global system that was being built, that said the tragedy is these world wars will never have one. Because we're tying each other economically. So no one will be able to have a complete global war anymore. Because it will destroy everything.

He said, in that, the only thing that will disrupt this. And I remember reading this again, after 9/11. Is if there's an unflagged group, that does not care about technology, or the financial system.

Well, that's exactly what happened, with 9/11.

They -- they didn't care if they collapsed the financial sector.

And -- and if you look -- if there was ever a collapse of things, we would probably lose to people that are not slaves to all this technology, and all of the electronics. And all of the goods and services that we just take for granted right now.

WILLIAM: Yeah, no. The things I study and all that, there's times when I feel, I'm just going to go further up in the woods. Cut myself in the grid. And live alone. But no man is an island. No matter how much I try to step away from things. We're still part of a society. Like it or not.

GLENN: Okay. So when we come back, I want to have you get into a checklist. What should we do to be reasonably prepared for something that the WEF says is coming within the next 20 -- 24 months.

By the way, I take them at their word, in seeing that they said, a major pandemic was coming. And three months later, a major pandemic came.

More in just a minute. I'm guessing that the next time you have to catch a flight judge. You're not going to try (?) you would probably also say, yeah. I want it to be Airbus or Boeing. And if the pilot comes on and says, hey, this is my first flight. You know, I do this part had much time, you're getting off the plane. (?) I would say, the bet off the plane, if you hear this from a travel -- I'm sorry. From a real estate agent.

Get out of their office. Don't let them -- I only do this part-time. You need somebody who is the best. Because they are landing and flying the biggest financial asset, that you will probably ever have in your life. Your home.

Don't leave that to anybody, but somebody who has the best practices. And the best history. You want somebody that has the whole ball game.

That's who we tried to find in your area. This is my company. It's a free service to you.

We will recommend the people in your area that we think have the most credibility and the best business practices. Et cetera, et cetera. It is

STU: And head over to If you use the promo code, you can save right now (?) on your subscription to Blaze TV.
(OUT AT 9:28AM)

GLENN: Welcome to the Glenn Beck Program. Let me just give you a couple of news stories that have come out today. They are all part of my show prep, which you can get. My unedited (?) it's free. (?) just look for the morning email, news -- newsletter.

Everything that I look at, every morning, is now available to you, because it's just not enough time to get to everything. But let me give you a couple of headlines here. Russia, and Russian TV, now going to length, to claim how they could wipe Britain off the face of the earth, by setting off a radioactive tsunami in the Atlantic Ocean.

Russian state TV has broadcast a mock video of the UK being obliterated (?) sent from Moscow.

They said, that it would engulf I'll end and the UK. Which I think leaves (?) Scotland out.

They're part of the UK. I think that includes Scotland. China, on the other hand. The political economic professor at P kings university (?) this is about as communist hierarchy as you can get.

On China (?) a nuclear weapon, and China should respond with its own.

Since the US has used its nuclear weapon against China. China should trike back, using our nuclear weapon, which is (?) the market. The US nuclear market is tech. Ours is the market.

And now they are looking at, I guess, cutting us off from the market.

We are in very, very unstable times. And things can spiral out of control, quickly.

Now, we have been talking to you about the World Economic Forum's prediction, that in the next 24 months, a major cyber attack would happen. So we wanted to bring a gentleman on, we had a couple of days ago. But specifically, to talk to him about what we can do, to prepare for something catastrophic like this.

So let's go back to William force general. (?) the author of one second (?) after. A must read book.

Bill, tell me, where do we start?

BILL: Let me point out one thing. There was once a guy, who everybody thought was crazy. Wrote a book Called My Struggle. Nobody paid attention to it, really.

And then for the next 12, 14 years, he kept saying, I'll start a war. I'll start a war.

Well, it became such background noise, the way you just pointed out. Russia is saying this. China is saying that.

We don't pay attention. And then one day, he started a war. World War II.

The same thing now. We're getting so much at that time every day, we don't respond.

And it's time we, as individuals, started taking some action for ourselves. And protect ourselves. And to protect our families.

GLENN: Okay. So what do we do?

WILLIAM: Your average day before okay. Your typical listener right now, they're savvy, all right?

They listen to you.

How many of those folks, you know, I would ask. How many of you have a two to four-week supply of water on hand?

I would say only a small --

GLENN: What's your guess?

BILL: 1 percent. 2 percent.

GLENN: I was thinking about ten.

BILL: Yeah. Okay. You don't want to buy the bottled water. Just save your 2-liter bottles. Clean them out well. And then just fill them up.

Stick them in a closet someplace. That is the key thing to start with. Have a basic water purification system on hand. You can buy one at any hiking store or Walmart. For 20 or 30 bucks. That can take the water. And make it clean. Then we go up that Maslow hierarchy of needs. What's the second most important thing? (?), well, it could be medication. You have any number -- the average person, about a third of the population, have to take some kind of medication, almost every day.

Well, do you have a 30-day supply? Or do you have it two days?

And then you go to the pharmacy. (?) or do you find a way, legally, to put a six-month supply on hand?

That's not on day three, you're out in the street, going, what the hell do I do now?

GLENN: Yeah. I just found -- I just found this service called Jase medical.

I think it's Jase (?) and they find the legal ways to, you know, get your medication, so you can have a six-month supply. You can have it on hand.

Because that's -- that's one of the major worries for me. Is, you know, if you don't have medication, my daughter goes into seizures. You know, I have high blood pressure.

I can be dead. You know, all of these things.

There's a lot of people. I learned this from your book. There's a lot of people that should be dead.

And I may be one of them.

But they should have died without modern medication. They would have been dead by now. And as soon as you lose that, but the problem is, you know, everything is so tightly prescribed and regulated. That it's hard to -- to get stuff.

How do you do it?

Do you know, Bill?

WILLIAM: You know, when I first started the book, and doing research. I sat down with my pharmacist one evening. Ask she said, what? (?) what happens to our typical community? At the end of that one-hour. She was crying, she said, my God, Bill, it would be overwhelming (?) pan critique. You're dead.

Cancer control. Any number of things. You're dead.

You've got to remember, the post World War II generation is really the first truly medicated society in the world. One hundred years ago, we died. We died young.

Now we're living into 60s, 70s, and 80s.

And pretty comfortable. Without those basic medications. Or the more exotic ones you use.

What about people who have many a transplant?

They'll die very, very quickly. What about heart conditions. I have an irregular heart condition. I've been taking a medication for 40 years. I'm fine. Take that medication, and within 40 takes, I'll be bed rin (?) after --

GLENN: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

WILLIAM: So these are basic things that we don't think about, until it's too late. The day after.

GLENN: So you put food in the third place. Water is number one. Medication is number two.

WILLIAM: Yes. Yes. Hey, I just listened to one of your (?) I know the company. Patriot.

GLENN: My Patriot Supply. Yeah. By the way, they also have the water purification, that is amazing. And it's even something that you can have on -- or in your car at all times too. Just in case.

We don't think of these things. We just -- that's why -- Stu and I always joke. He says, you're the most prepared man, I know.

And I'm really not.

But I'm more prepared than he is.

But I know in the end, it will be one of those things that I'll be like, oh, crap. I forgot batteries.

You know it will be something stupid. That you just assume that you have.

WILLIAM: I have a (?) double and AAA batteries.

GLENN: So do I. So do I.

WILLIAM: And you want to know something?

That will be a trade item. Somebody said, I'll trade you a meal for batteries.


BILL: Things like that we don't even think of. And then, of course, (?) that's something I always predicate with. If you decide to get a firearm. Get trained. You don't want to (?) all right? The bet trained, trained well. If you decide that you want a tram. And then have the proper ammunition and supplies on hand.

GLENN: So if you have your house on solar panels. And you have buried natural gas or whatever, for generators. Is that also good to have in the plan? To be some self-reliance on these things?

WILLIAM: Yeah. I have a (?) even me, with with all the books I've written and everything else, there's a heck of a lot of things, that I'm dependent on my society for.

And not everybody is going to go out there, (?) cistern. Et cetera.

GLENN: Sure. Right.

WILLIAM: But everybody listening to you, who lives in an apartment. A single mom with a couple of kids. Get a month's worth of supplies on hand, that you don't have to step outside and contend with the chaos out there.

That you are safe and secure, in your home, for at least ten months.

GLENN: And you think that a -- a massive -- what they're calling catastrophic attack on our -- on our -- on our systems, cyber attack, that could last a month?

WILLIAM: It most likely could last longer than a month. It could last (?) several years back. Said, if we had a radical shutdown, to take up the five years, to take the top 500 generating systems, in the eastern United States. Five years to put 80 percent back online. To which --


WILLIAM: Because component parts. Basic replacement parts. You would call the Israeli raid on the Iranian cyber attack.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

WILLIAM: Yeah. Sputnik. It's some software that they put in there, caused all the centrifuges, to suddenly stop.

It destroyed them for years.

There are things, you and I don't even know about. That at this moment, somebody is sitting there plotting. Boy, I could really screw up America, if I pulled this block out of the system.